Cabot reply to CCA....what next??

[nowayjose]

Received today a reply to a CCA request from Cabot financial for a Providian Credit Card taken out in October 2001, they have sent back a photocopy of a Reply Card with my signature on, can anyone tell me how to upload this so that you can look at it and tell me if its a full CCA request... TYVM ...NWJx

[mrsc]

Hi ,

 

Have a look at the dummies guide,by bookworm,very informative.

 

That's how I managed to do mine.

 

Mrsc

[nowayjose]

 

 

 

I dont know if this is any good and if anyone can read this as its so small..

[nowayjose]

 

Perhaps this is better

[pt2537]

no they are unreadable.

 

perhaps you could upload them in something like photobucket?

[nowayjose]

I will type the letter word for word as the picture is so small.

 

Dear XXXXXXX

 

Information under the Consumer Credit Act

 

Further to your request for information under the Consumer Credit Act, we are pleased to enclose with this letter all relevant information.

 

What does this mean?

Cabot and the original lender have now completed the relevant obligations under the Consumer Credit Act. As a result, Cabot is entitled to resume collections of the outstanding balance of £XXX

 

In the event that you wish to clarify or query anything relating to the enclosed information, please do not hesitate to contact us and one of our helpful customer advisors will be able to assist you.

 

Independent Advice

If you are querying any part of the information provided to you by Cabot, which you have not yet been able to clarify with us, we recommend that you seek independent legal advice.

 

Contacting Cabot

If you have any queries about your account or any payment options, call us on........

Yours sincerely

Emma Robertson

 

Any comments???

[pt2537]

Well that really depends on what they have sent you, if the documents they sent are non compliant with the CCA 1974 and the subsequent regulations then game over,

 

can you post what they have sent with the letter?

[nowayjose]

[nowayjose]

In answer to your question pt2537 Ive posted through photobucket, hope this can be read, thanks NWJ

[pt2537]

Hi NWJ,

 

thanks thats much better for me, not so good for them though:)

 

if this document in post no 8 is all they have sent its unenforcable and it contains no prescribed terms, its no executed correctly as its not signed by them and they are up sh!te Creek without a paddle

[nowayjose]

Thanks for your reply pt, yes thats all they did supply plus the letter i wrote out word for word, whats the next course of action .. letters etc...TYVM..NWJx

[pt2537]

bear with me and im sure we can come up with something

[Rhia]

Honestly Cabot are just ridiculous. Surely their lawyers have taken a look at this and said...no mate, sorry it's cobblers. Well perhaps they have and they just don't care. PT will sort you out nowyajose dunna fret.

[pt2537]

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your letter dated **********, the contents of which are noted

I note that to date you have not complied with my request for a copy of the credit agreement for this alleged debt which you are pursuing me for

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. All you have sent is a pre-contractual application form, which does not contain the prescribed terms contained within Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). Without production of the said agreement I am unable to asses if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(2) …….

(3)….….

(4) ………

(4A)……

(5) ………

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections [(4) to (5)] do not apply to a small agreement.

 

 

Clearly the agreement which was supplied in no way complies with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in s78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

 

To clarify s61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

 

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

 

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced. I will re-iterate that this is clearly not a true copy of the executed agreement between ********* and myself.

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ********* become compliant with my request. As ****** are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

• All charges levied since ******** 2007 be removed from the account and further charges cease until such time as ******8 comply fully with my original request or such time as a court makes an enforcement order
  
• All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file
  
• All collection activities by your company cease with immediate effect until ******** comply with my request from ********* 2007 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

Clearly your pursuance of this debt falls into this category; in addition I must draw your attention to the fact that this debt is under investigation by Mr ******** of ********************** Trading Standards as I have made a complaint as a direct result of **************** failure to comply with the CCA 74 .

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement and all documents referred to in it as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist.

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

I trust this out lines the situation

 

Regards

 

 

 

there you go, amend to suit and send it to the pillocks, they have not sent you a compliant credit agreement

[nowayjose]

Thats brilliant pt, thanks very much for that.... a couple of questions though...what dates do I enter for 'charges levied since xxxxx2007 be removed from the account' .. What date do I enter

[nowayjose]

oops sorry dont know what happened then:o

[nowayjose]

Also can I omit the part where I have made a complaint to TS because I havent made a complaint YET!!!

[pt2537]

Hi NWJ,

 

the letter should be edited to suit your circumstances as its one i sent littlewoods a while ago to tell them to go away

 

 

now then

 

you could actually remove this section of the letter

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as ********* become compliant with my request. As ****** are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect

• All charges levied since ******** 2007 be removed from the account and further charges cease until such time as ******8 comply fully with my original request or such time as a court makes an enforcement order
  
• All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file
  
• All collection activities by your company cease with immediate effect until ******** comply with my request from ********* 2007 or such time as a court makes an enforcement order

 

 

as its not really much use here as the document is unenforcable

 

also you can omit the bit about trading standards

 

regards

paul

[nowayjose]

Absolutely brilliant, all done I will send out first thing recorded delivery tomorrow and will keep you posted of any reply....tyvm NWJx

[davey77]

Will look forward to see what Cabot have to say to that nowayjose!

[nowayjose]

me too, I cant wait for tthe reply now!!!!

[pmhcfc]

Why isnt this post in the CABOT threads ?

[nowayjose]

**UPDATE**

 

Received yesterday the following letter from my friends at Cabot:-

 

Hope this is big enough for everyone to see....

 

I also received 4 pages of their terms and conditions with no signature on that they have probably had on record somewhere..and they have sent me another copy of the same 'Reply Card' that they sent me at the end of November claiming that that is the copy of the Credit Agreement but this time they have highlighted ....'I authorise you to send me a Providian Visa card with the terms stated in the enclosed Terms & Conditions(T&C). I have read and agree to be bound by the T&Cs.' ...and they also highlighted 'This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms.'..... when it is obviously an application for the Providian Credit Card....

any ideas on how to reply to this letter

Thanks

NWJx

[pt2537]

Hi NWJ,

 

its a wee bit small

 

can you upload it in photo bucket?

[nowayjose]

Hows this???