Jump to content


Ideal Boilers ruined my heating: help needed?


themuzza
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5946 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hi

Can anyone offer some genuine advice?

 

Ideal boilers came to sort out a breakdown (an external electrical fault) in my boiler in July.

The Engineer recommended that although the boiler was fine and worked as it should, the Heat Exchanger looked "worn" and "scaled" and for piece of mind Ideal could replace it for £170.

 

On his advice they returned on 12 September and on replacing it said the flue needed replacing as well. They then left me with no heating for 4 weeks before they could get the part.

On returning twice with wrong parts, they fitted it, turned on the boiler which then fired for 45 seconds, then switched off for 45 seconds then continued this pattern indefinitely.

 

They then left me. After numerous calls they returned and drained the system and changing the pump (which took 5 more visits).

 

Now my boiler fires for 10 seconds and cuts out immediately..then just stops for an hour or so before trying again.

 

They are now claiming that I need a power flush, at my expense!

 

I have air in the system as I can hear it for the brief spell it fires.

 

They claim that by changing the Heat Exchanger silt and sludge has been disturbed and this is causing the problem. Basically tough luck!

 

I have a £450 excess bill for electricity used to heat the house (plug in rads and emmersion) and still no functional heating at all.

 

Im not the ranting type but surely they cant walk away when 11 weeks ago my heating worked until their arrival.

 

Any ideas from anyone would be fully appreciated.

 

Thanks

user_online.gif

Link to post
Share on other sites

power flushing is used if the system is heavely sludged, the plate heat exchanger replaced would normally fail in the event of no lime scale inhibiter.

heat exchanger £40-60

remedy

cycling is the resault of heat not getting away from boiler

need make /model boiler

how old

total charged so far

was it an engineer direct from ideal, or tradesman

my twin works for a boiler firm and says its very rare for this to happen

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your response.

The boiler is a ideal minimiser boiler, its about 9 years old.

So far I have paid Ideal £170 to fit the Exchanger.

The Heat Exchanger fitting was done by Ideal Boilers approved contractor (Quality Gas Services). Since then both Ideal Engineers and Quality Gas Services Engineers have been out to either fit flue or fit pump, or try and get it working.

 

I have just been home and with my brother we have bled all radiators, and drained the 3 downstairs radiator drains.

Its now firing for around 90 seconds then off for around 90 then back on again.

Only half the radiators on the ground floor are heating, others ice cold.

 

The water coming out is not too dark, occasional little bit dark but then not far off clear mainly.

 

Im obviously reticent to pay for a power flush if not needed and feel Ideal should sort the matter as it worked perfectly well before!

 

Let me know what you think, greatly appreciated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

this is interesting

my own opinion is that you are being taken for a ride.

i am sure this is a circulation problem.

the reason it is turning off and on is the thermastat reg to hot around boiler. inside the boiler is a switch to controll temperture and seems to be stuck. thats why rads are cold (

circulation)

my own view is to get second opinion by a qualified person who has knowledge of these boilers. if it is the switch which i think it is you have had work done and been charged in error. when you contact for a second opinon say you think its the switch inside the boiler.

by the way £170 , they have made there money on that

Link to post
Share on other sites

They charged me £170 for the Exchanger, then when fitting said it needed a new flue.

Got away with paying for the flue, then they fitted a new pump (Grundfos) as I kicked up a stink about them ruining my heating.

Didnt pay for it.

Fitted that yesterday and still on off continually.

Left me like that last night, promised a call today..no call so far.

Engineer left saying he think its a blockage, suspected a power flush needed, at my expense. Basically they have wiped their hands off it so far..just passing the buck.

Thinking of going to the small claims court, have a £450 bill excess bill for electricity due to having to plug electric / oil rads in, emersion on for hot water. Also have taken a week off work to sit in my house while they mess around. Have also spend 15 hours on hold in total, trying to get through to Customer Services. No heating since 12 September.

Got to be a case Im sure.

 

Nevertheless still have no functional boiler so claiming is the least of my worries at the moment!

Link to post
Share on other sites

like i said, get a second opinion and mention the switch inside the boiler

once this has been confirmed and the boiler is up and running, easy job,

put in a claim to the company saying that was what was wrong with the boiler and you have been charged for work not needed.

request repayment and adverse costs, and send them copy of repair receipt from second opinion.

if they do not budge county court claim them.

you must have the defect confirmed to begin with

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in the Midlands.

You wont believe this, spent the evening trying to get air out of the system. After lots of scratching heads checked the pump Ideal had installed, and they had fitted it the wrong way round..flow in reverse around the house!

 

Corrected it by turning it correctly and refitting, spent 10 minutes venting all the air which then came through, then boiler working perfectly well, no cycling, all sorted.

 

Also checked the boiler enclosure / door, the inner panel has had a couple of clips broken so they have taped it in place with gaffer tape to stop it hanging loose.

 

I must have a case to claim for this poor service?

Link to post
Share on other sites

be very carefull hear

only a registered corgi installer can touch gas appliances

you open your self up to prosecution, and they can then say bog off.

this is terrible and these monkeys need sorting.

my advice is to put the pump back as it was. get a second opinion from another company. mention you think the pump is wrong, and you will only be charged a call out fee.

then contact ideal with the resaults and demand your money back for work not needed and all costs. threaten to report them to corgi.

never again mention you touched the pump for your own sake and keep me informed

good luck

Link to post
Share on other sites

be very carefull hear

only a registered corgi installer can touch gas appliances

 

Is the pump part of the boiler or a stand alone unit (as most are, i believe)?

 

If the pump is away from the boiler you don't have to be corgi registered but other building regs may apply.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The pump is a seperate unit in the loft, not connected to the boiler in anyway, just the hot water system so I think Im safe to touch this without come back. Certainly you can buy these pumps from B and Q and fit them yourself so Im sure Im not braking any "gas" laws by doing this.

Im aware I cant touch the boiler itself so Im not going to play into their hands on that one.

 

Ive taken photos of my pump before and after, and the gaffer tape they used to hold my boiler panel in place. Ive e-mailed them my complaints

and the photos of the gaffer tape panels and threatened the small claims court and reporting them to health and safety authorities, unless they refund my £170 and my £450 extra electricity bill.

My guess is I might get the £170 back but they will ignore the elec bill.

And yes what a bunch of cowboys.

Shame we sorted the problem ourselves, I agree it would have been better to get an external party in but really dont want to spend another penny on this, and by God I dont want to change it back to reverse flow and switch it on after its working now! After 11 weeks the house is warm!

Any further advice welcomed guys.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As the pump is separate you haven't broken any reg's as such but as postggj has mentioned you may have invalidated any warranty offered on their work. They will probably try and use this against you but the photo's should help. Make sure they are aware that you have witnesses to the fact that it was fitted by themselves in reverse.

 

As the original electrical fault was remedied and the exchanger was advised work, they didn't force the work upon you but were invited to do this job. They should have made you aware however of the possibility of clogging before renewing the exchanger.

As a result the sludge inherent in the system caused the pump to fail probably and if not for the arse that replaced the pump (fitting it the wrong way around!) your heating would've been fine.

 

I don't think the work done was not needed, just that it wasn't done by a competent person that can check flow arrows! You mentioned that the boiler is nine years old, so was the pump probably - nothing lasts forever.

 

You may get some compensation for the cost of your heating due to their negligence but unlikely you'll see any of the parts cash returned IMO.

 

Good luck though, constant hassle is the way to get what you want!

Link to post
Share on other sites

be very carefull hear

only a registered corgi installer can touch gas appliances

you open your self up to prosecution, and they can then say bog off.

this is terrible and these monkeys need sorting.

 

It is absolute bollox that only a CORGI registered installer can touch gas appliances.

 

The law specifically states a "competent person"; if you feel yourself competent, then it is perfectly legal to DIY. I have installed gas appliances for myself before. There are no grounds whatsoever for any prosecution.

 

A CORGI registered fitter is required if the work is for someone else and for payment.

 

Also, I am not aware that a central heating pump is a gas appliance - all those I have seen are electric

Link to post
Share on other sites

It is absolute bollox that only a CORGI registered installer can touch gas appliances.

 

The law specifically states a "competent person"; if you feel yourself competent, then it is perfectly legal to DIY. I have installed gas appliances for myself before. There are no grounds whatsoever for any prosecution.

 

A CORGI registered fitter is required if the work is for someone else and for payment.

 

Also, I am not aware that a central heating pump is a gas appliance - all those I have seen are electric

 

This maybe true but you try and get insurance without a Corgi cert.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well patdavies, as already stated by postggj - all gas works must be done by Corgi registered engineers no matter where the work is done.

 

You can get insurance but unless you have disclosed the fact that you did the work yourself, and you have written evidence from the insurance company stating that they condone this (very unlikely they will!), it is invalid. Just the same with car insurance - you can get that without an MOT or TAX but will they pay out in the event of a claim? I think you know the answer to that.

 

Perhaps i could've made this clearer but i'm only human and the facts are the same - you must have a Corgi cert. if you want VALID insurance.

 

 

Thank you postggj, you are a true gent'.

 

ps patdavies, did you notify your Local Authority prior to doing your diy gas works? I think you probably didn't as they would've informed you that you weren't qualified and you would be committing an offence.

Link to post
Share on other sites

AFAIK a competent person can do the work, just the same as part P, the caveat is however the the person doing the installation would be liable for any losses caused by negligence. In the case of a Gas install, you'll plumb the boiler yourself then have a gas safety check done by your "corgi" (no monopoly there, no ripping off plumbers for renewal certs) certificated engineer and alls well and good. like i say as i understand it. it's irrelevant anyways because any richard cranium can change a heating circulation pump, just some of us know the way the water's meant to flow !!!

All posts by myself are without prejudice and do not constitue legal advice, they are purely for the discussion of points of law and consumer rights.

I am however not affiliated in any way shape or form with any financial institution or parking company. And if i am elected I will make it mandatory that all persons posting on this forum make such a declaration just so we can all see who the trolls are :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is what the law says (SI 1998/2351 Gas Safety (installation and use) regulations)

 

3. - (1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

 

Nowhere in the SI is competent limited to CORGI registered.

 

 

The regulations draw a distinction between doing gas work for nothing and doing it in return for payment (of any kind - not just money). If you are receiving payment you MUST be CORGI registered, or the penalty can be a prison sentence. If you are NOT being rewarded in any way (e.g. DIY for yourself) then you need only be what the regulation describes as 'competent'.

For the potential DIYer the problem is deciding what the law means by 'competent'. This open to wide interpretation. You are certainly competent if you go to technical college and pass the exams accepted by CORGI for membership. At the other end of the spectrum a CORGI inspector once suggested to me that if you fitted your own boiler and followed the instructions fully and accurately in every way and there were no 'gas incidents', that could constitute proof of 'competence' too.

 

 

 

IF the law had wished to prevent DIY, then it would have related all gas work to CORGI registration, not just that for payment. Ultimately, the decision on who is competent can only be interpreted by the courts'

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well patdavies, as already stated by postggj - all gas works must be done by Corgi registered engineers no matter where the work is done.

 

See the post above for the quote from the law

 

You can get insurance but unless you have disclosed the fact that you did the work yourself, and you have written evidence from the insurance company stating that they condone this (very unlikely they will!), it is invalid. Just the same with car insurance - you can get that without an MOT or TAX but will they pay out in the event of a claim? I think you know the answer to that.
I have just checked my house & contents insurance and there is no reference to this at all.

 

BTW, your car insurance 'parallel' is nonsense. At best an urban myth.

 

Perhaps i could've made this clearer but i'm only human and the facts are the same - you must have a Corgi cert. if you want VALID insurance.
See above

 

ps patdavies, did you notify your Local Authority prior to doing your diy gas works? I think you probably didn't as they would've informed you that you weren't qualified and you would be committing an offence.

Part J is the part that you are referring to. Only non-CORGI installers are required to notify. And they didn't tell me that I would be committing an offence - because I wasn't. The matters are dealt with under the building notice procedure - which does not require the authority to issue a completion certificate.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you Corgi registered then?

 

Try claiming in the event of a fault or more importantly, a leak.

 

You're just ****y cos you've been shown to be wrong about electrical work and now gas too. The reg's are a guideline only, not law, but unless you can show you have followed them you'll be fried in court. Hence the registration.

 

Stick to giving advice on what you know about patdavies.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you Corgi registered then?

 

Try claiming in the event of a fault or more importantly, a leak.

 

You're just ****y cos you've been shown to be wrong about electrical work and now gas too. The reg's are a guideline only, not law, but unless you can show you have followed them you'll be fried in court. Hence the registration.

 

Stick to giving advice on what you know about patdavies.

 

No, I am not Corgi registered.

 

No, I am not ****y.

 

No. I have not been shown to be wrong. Either for electricity or gas works.

 

Regulations are law; that's what Statutory Instrument means.

 

I think it is you that has been proven wrong which is why you have now resorted to attacking me.

 

As such, I shall no longer respond to this thread

 

(oh, BTW, even professional work does not need CORGI registration. Registration with any EU equivalent is valid - for it to be CORGI only would be an illegal restraint of trade within the EU)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...