M.Loan in default. HSBC reopen closed loan?

[hsbcfiddled]

History:

 

In February 2004 HSBC insisted that I entered into a Managed Loan (ML) which has since the end of June 2007 been in default.

The default being they failed to provide the agreement in the set time frame to supply under CCA1974.

Then when they did eventually supply the agreement, I found four errors in the agreement;) .

 

HSBC Continued to attempt to take payment from the account for the ML.

From reading other posts I suspected that they would attempt to continue taking payments so to prevent them from being able to do so after the default date I stopped putting any money into the account.

Well I didn't want to assist them in breaking the law.

Result more charges:eek: .

I have repeatedly told them they cannot take/request payment or add charges.

I told HSBC the defaulted ML is a Dodo:p .

 

HSBC's response was to close my account about 2 weeks ago and pass ML to Metropolitan (MCS) even though they cannot legally do so.

No contact from MCS to date.

A parachute account opened five months ago so no problem there.

 

Local Branch Manager (not responsible foir either loan-not at the branch at the time) has been very helpful after HSBC tried to put all the problems back on Local branch managers desk.

 

My problem today:

 

HSBC now want to go back to an earlier agreement that was opened in September 1993 then closed when the now defaulted Managed Loan was opened.

 

Can they re-open a closed loan:?

[Castlebest]

My problem today:

 

HSBC now want to go back to an earlier agreement that was opened in September 1993 then closed when the now defaulted Managed Loan was opened.

 

Can they re-open a closed loan:?

 

in what way do they want to go back to it?

 

if they want to use it as the basis for the new loan no they cant because its a totally different contractual agreement they terminated when the new loan was opened.

 

to even allow you to consider whether to allow this you would need full disclosure from them for the old loan, the contractual agreement you signed plus full records of the loan, statements or microfilm copies for its full term, not just the few months back to the statutory limitations date and even then at the point they gave you the new loan the terms and conditions of the old loan would be redundant.

 

pete

[hsbcfiddled]

to even allow you to consider whether to allow this you would need full disclosure from them for the old loan, the contractual agreement you signed plus full records of the loan, statements or microfilm copies for its full term, not just the few months back to the statutory limitations date and even then at the point they gave you the new loan the terms and conditions of the old loan would be redundant.

 

pete

Hi Pete,

 

HSBC have already supplied a copy of the agreement, and it appears to be genuine. It was signed in September 03 so statements wont be a problem.

I bet they dont take 40 days though.

Fiddled.

[Castlebest]

Hiya fiddled, all I can say is listen to what they say, their reasons for wanting to use these terms and conditions etc.

 

The only way they could bring these terms and conditions into the argument surrounding your new loan is if they say the new loan is an extension of the old loan. But as you also have what they thought were conditions for the new loan its obviously just an attempt to cover their own negligence.

 

pete

[hsbcfiddled]

Hiya fiddled, all I can say is listen to what they say, their reasons for wanting to use these terms and conditions etc.

 

The only way they could bring these terms and conditions into the argument surrounding your new loan is if they say the new loan is an extension of the old loan. But as you also have what they thought were conditions for the new loan its obviously just an attempt to cover their own negligence.

 

pete

 

Hi Pete,

 

We do have a meeting planned for 2 weeks time.

I am only going to listen to what they have to say.

However if they suggest that they can restart this earlier loan.

I will suggest that we re-open the loans that were consilidated even prior to this one.....I mean how far do they want to go back?

I am quite happy to go back as far as they like...then we will see how much information they do have....beyond six years perhaps??????

 

I feel that if legally they could enforce the re-opening of this earlier ML then they wouldnt be needing a meeting with me.

 

fiddled

[hsbcfiddled]

Well what a surprise!

 

HSBC have written off £4600 that was added into 2nd ML (which is in default)

 

They arent even going to try to restart the first ML(£16.6K)- but they are willing to put the £12K of the first ML (plus interest to date) will then be recalculated at a 2003 personal loan rate.

The almost £10K that I have paid on 2nd ML will be recalculated at the personal loan rate and reduced from the balance.

They have also offered me over £500 in charges/interest fees in a cheque as a refund of business account charges between June 2001 and October 2001. I had also added to the charges/interest fees compounded interest @14.8% which came to £1K this will also come off the balance of the loan.

 

They offered this Knowing that I have £9000 in personal account charges to date and that I am going for Compounded interest @14.8%.

 

The business account has approx £4600 in charges between 1999 & 2001 which equates with interest Compounded to about £20K.

 

I am now awaiting the calculation of the interest free loan but I feel that

1. collapse of the managed loan.

2. repayment of some business charges.

3. Compounded interest indirectly applied.

4. and £4600 just written off!

 

I feel that it is 4-0 to hsbcfiddled and its not even HALFTIME.

[pinkduchess]

excellent!!! - lets hope the second half continues in the same vein

[Castlebest]

Good Grief Fiddled !!! you dont mean you have actualy found a sensible person working for HSBC !!! :o

 

Well Done mate !!!

 

pete

[hsbcfiddled]

Thanks PD & Pete,

 

Yeah I was surprised that I had managed to get someone to listen to me.....but then they are the Listening Bank........oooops just fell off my chair.

 

Now that I have escaped from that horrid Managed Loan I feel a great load has lifted from my shoulders.

 

I also presented them with a copy of my 'definition of a managed loan' to put up on their wall.

MANAGED LOAN- Definition of.

 

We (A bank) have MANAGED to con you (our loyal customer i.e. MUG) into paying exhorbitant interest on a debt that we have manufactured (in most cases) by adding exhorbitant unlawful charges to your account.

Thus we are able to 'make you an offer that you cannot refuse' (quote from 'Cosa Nostra' manual for collecting monies).

The offer being, we then, lend your own money back to you (that we have taken unlawfully from your account) to pay off your overdraft, that we have manufactured with our unlawful charges.

You promise to make monthly payments to us (A bank), that are massively loaded with interest so that we have you contributing to our enormous profits for the rest of your life, and after if we can.

Because you have made your promise the bank reciprocates your promise by promising that every time you go even a few pence over your overdraft or are late making a payment WE PROMISE to hammer you with even more unlawful charges.

The interest that we take from our MANAGED LOAN system is then lent out to other mugs (writer included) to pay off more manufactured debts (overdrafts etc.) and thus the cycle continues.

 

 

That got a wry smile.

 

fiddled.

[pinkduchess]

[Castlebest]

[hsbcfiddled]

As a result of a meeting with HSBC- they have accepted the ML £16.6K signed in Feb 2004 is a Dodo.

They admit that they failed to consolidate one of four loans/accounts when a previous ML was signed in Sept 2003 leaving £4600 plus in our account -which we then spent.

They now propose to write off the £4600 and put the ML of £12000 onto a personal loan rate (for the purpose of adding interest) at that time.

All the payments I have made will have the interest adjusted to the same personal loan interest rate and then subtracted from loan total.

The figure remaining will then be paid on an interest FREE basis with the payments at our choice (within reason).

 

The people I have dealt with also helped twist some arms to release £500 of business interest & charges plus over £1100 in compounded interest.

[Castlebest]

Good grief fiddled are you having an affair with the fairy godmother ???? or do you say... look into my eyes, look into my eyes... when you walk in ???? who the hell are you talking to? .

 

whatever your doing it seems to be working so more power to you and well done

 

pete

[Audreygreeneyes]

well done HSBC, you ahve spent a great deal of time and effort in this and am so pleased that you are having the luck you are, maybe some of the rest of us can hope it will rub off.......

well done and merry xmas HSBC...... Aud

[johnnymitch]

well done and merry xmas HSBC...... Aud

 

Do you realise you just wished HSBC a Merry Christmas, Auburn

 

I know what you mean though.........

[freakyleaky]

Just caught up with this thread. WOW! You really are having some luck at the moment Fiddled!

As auders says lets hope it rubs off on the rest of us!

 

I am still laffin at the ML definition!

[hsbcfiddled]

Update on Managed Loan refund.

 

Well....... a further meeting took place in February with a HSBC Area PFS Manager, and a Branch Manager from a different location.

My Local Branch Manager was not in attendance.

 

I told them that I was not going to make any payments because the Managed Loan had not been correctly executed as was in fact a dodo!

 

The Area PFS Manager admitted that the agreement for various reasons had not been drawn up properly and that the person responsible had been admonished (I saw him leaving just before I entered the meeting- first time I had seen him since Feb 2004).

 

The Branch Manager said to me "do you acknowlegde that you had the money"

 

I replied "Yes, but the loan was a result of massive charges and subsequent interest levied on my business".

 

The meeting closed after about an hour but the final words from the Area PFS Manager were "I am sorry that this problem has arisen and that it hasnt been sorted before now. I know what I would do if the decision was up to me, but we will now have to pass it over to our legal department"

 

I wrote to DG Solicitors in March and they wrote back to me telling me that he was ready to accept the proceedings.

I told DG that I have not yet received a written reply from HSBC or DG Solicitors as to whether they will refund me or not...and still havent.

 

The first week in April DG informed me that they had been awaiting 'advice' and upon recieving that 'advice' they would ask their client for instruction. DG informed me the following week that they had informed their clients and that I would have my reply SHORTLY ...a month on and still no reply.

 

hsbcfiddled

[Castlebest]

Hiya fiddled, I suspect the delay is due to a corporate problem of no one being willing to sign on the dotted line and admit that you are right and they are wrong even though you have proved it to at least three separate people .

 

Sooner or later you will find someone with enough balls to write this off .

 

pete

[johnnymitch]

Maybe a nudge letter to let them know you haven't gone away, fiddled?

[hsbcfiddled]

Hi Pete & Johnny,

 

 

Been emailing- almost on daily basis (but not the last ten days)

 

Decided to go to Solicitors for help - informed DG of the rate per hour that they can add to my claim.

 

fiddled

[johnnymitch]

Ha-ha! well done fiddled - I like it......

[hsbcfiddled]

Phoned them aswell for good measure- and they told me that I would have a definitive answer in the next few days!!!!

[rhsymonds]

Interesting !! My ML has just resurfaced as well, Im being contacted by CDRU (Central Debt Recovery Unit - A Trading style of MCS - ROFL) demanding Immediate Payment !!!

(Apparently, CDRU specialise 'in cases like mine, where normal recovery options have failed', WHO WRITES THIS CRAP !!!)

 

Just writing a letter telling them im STILL waiting for a signed agreement & CCA'ing them, any other suggestions ??? I got the account put on hold while awaiting investigation by the FOS, but never heard back from them ?!?! Should I phone the Ombudsman ???

[freakyleaky]

Hi Rhsy. Long time no see.

 

If you have been in contact with the FOS about this account in the past then I suggest you contact them again and tell them exactly what they are trying to do.

If the account has been put on hold and it is now officially in dispute then they are commiting an offence by attempting to collect the "debt".

[rhsymonds]

Thanks Freaky, nice to see you are still here !!!

 

They sent me a letter saying the account was 'on hold pending investigation' in August last year, but I STILL havent heard anything from the FOS ?!?!