Benefit Cheats

[PriorityOne]

It annoys me when they say such things as 'there are17,000 pensioners not claiming the benefits they are entitled to'. If they know that, then they must know who they are so why don't they inform them.

 

I know why really, it's so they can boast 'hey look we got all this money and you aint coming to get it', but they don't really want you to have it.

 

Ah yes, pensioners.... Interestingly, the Gov./tabloids seem to roll this one out whenever it suits. They don't actually know this for a fact... but it does serve to stir up more bad feeling towards other social groups who appear to be "stuck" on benefits for one reason or another.... when there are so many vulnerable, impoverished pensioners out there who should have the money instead.

 

Yeah right...

[Conniff]

I wasn't making a case for pensioners, it's just that that particular thing comes up so often from them probably as they are the most identifiable group.

 

It also annoys me to hear the same type of thing as 'this money shouldn't be wasted on this or that, it could be spent on nurses and doctors' knowing full well that irrespective of the amount of funding they are getting, you can't really argue against is.

 

The same with attaching the word 'children or green' to some article or other knowing full well that you would have to be very brave indeed to make any attempt to throw some kind of obverse argument to it.

[redrum3wins]

Because they aren't 'drug dealers' or 'shoplifters'

 

Well said Jon. I'm glad your a member of this forum

[FCC]

What?? 52,000 benefit cheats prosecuted under a Labout Government?. That can't be true!. Everyone knows that The Labour Government encouraged people to defraud the benefits system!!.

[Helen2264]

Should all benefit cheats who are caught be named and shamed in their local newspaper...

I say yes, why should us the taxpayer foot the bill,any one else care to comment???

 

I do not agree with benefit cheats but perhaps we should name and shame all MPs that cheats the systems as well you couldn't get any more cheaters as them what with thousands of pounds they take from the tax payers for light bulbs porn movies, soap it's endless.

[Helen2264]

I think it is morally wrong (as well as wrong in law) to claim for things you aren't entitled to.

 

Lets name and shame some of the MPs that cheat then.

[Helen2264]

Does anyone honestly think that if all benefit fraud was stopped completely that a single extra penny would come their way. Of course it wouldn't.

 

I couldn't agree more LOL the Govt has made people believe that benefits money come from their taxes money if only they know reality.

[Helen2264]

Should all benefit cheats who are caught be named and shamed in their local newspaper...

I say yes, why should us the taxpayer foot the bill,any one else care to comment???

 

WHAT make you think your tax pay for benefits the Govt is trying their best to divide our societies and keep people like YOU on their side otherwise if the tables are turned all hell will break loose. I pray you don't end up needing to claim benefits then you will see reality I've worked for 27 years run my own business until 5 years ago illnesses strucked me to the point I couldn't even get off my chair I claim basic benefit it's taken five years before I am getting the benefit I am entitled to and even that will soon be taken away from me now that I have to go yet again for a Medical test you call me a benefit cheats wake up and smell the coffee open your eyes to reality and support your fellow citizens that need to claim benefits through illness I do not agree with benefit cheats but there are those who need benefits to survives. I warrant perhaps you should concentrate on those who come to this country by boats or white van and are not citizens of this country that are claiming benefits with your tax money the Govt don't pinpoint that one to likes like of you do they.

[JonCris]

Problem is many 'benefit cheats' are not actually cheats at all. Many have simply claimed the wrong benefit. Its a fact that some, had they claimed the correct one, would have been financially better off yet even these are often prosecuted by the DWP

[redrum3wins]

Problem is many 'benefit cheats' are not actually cheats at all. Many have simply claimed the wrong benefit. Its a fact that some, had they claimed the correct one, would have been financially better off yet even these are often prosecuted by the DWP

Well said JonCris. It is good to have some good balance here and a defence of the defenceless.

[doktorjohn]

Only in Britain......do we use the word "politics" to describe the process so well.

 

"Poli" in Latin meaning "many" and "tics" meaning "bloodsucking creatures".

 

dj

[Like-Im-Being-Ripped-Off]

Only in Britain......do we use the word "politics" to describe the process so well.

 

"Poli" in Latin meaning "many" and "tics" meaning "bloodsucking creatures".

 

dj

Nice one DOC that sums it up.

I see theres still no plans to find a way to hit this lot with, lookes like were doomed as from aprill 2011.

[tabs666]

Re the original question...the Court process is in the public domain. The newspapers decide which cases to publish, not the prosecuting authority. As a Fraud Investigator I hear all the time that the only punishment people fear is getting their name in the papers, so I must admit I actively encourage our local rag to attend some days when I've got cases in court. I might even issue a press release, but I can't decidde if it's published or not.

 

It's part of the Justice system, anyone can turn up and view the workings of a court, including the press.

[Helen2264]

Nice one DOC that sums it up.

I see theres still no plans to find a way to hit this lot with, lookes like were doomed as from aprill 2011.

 

We are making ourselves doomed not the Government there are those that will not fight this unfair systems the Government is making sure those that are in work stand with them by showing benefit scroungers claiming thousands of pounds splashed on the front page of well none Newspapers showing them that it is their monies that are paying for the scroungers and it always work so unless everyone unite whether you are working or not like in France yes we will be DOOMED. Signing petitions don't work walking to Downing Street and bring the country to a stand still work also if only one can get those that are working understand fully about the benefit system and that their tax monies aswell goes to MPs buying fancy toilet rolls, wallpapers, vulgar films for their spouse to indulge whilst the MPs themselves fraud the systems big time we don't stand a chance so unless they truly understand and acknowledged how benefit claimants suffer under the benefit systems then perhaps things will change.

[Bookworm]

Goodness me, is this thread STILL going???

[Surfer01]

Yep! We almost got done as benefit cheats because of an official error. I had been made redundant and when applying for housing and council tax benefits we submitted all the documents including my wife's wages for the past 6 weeks. We were the awarded full housing and council tax benefits and as we did not know any better we accepted this.

A few months later there was a small change in our cirunmstances so we phoned in to advise and were sent a breakdown of our benefits however this breakdown was totally different to the previous one and easier to understand. When checking it I noticed that they had taken by wife's wage slips as a monthly income for each one despite the dates on the slps being an obvious give away and also the amount of tax and NI being paid on a monthly income of £260. They then demanded that w repay them something in the region of £1800.

I posted on this forum, got the appropriate advice and appealed their decision and it was dropped. Not our error but theirs which makes you think how many other people have been labelled benefit cheats when they are not and how much has the DWP wasted because of official errors like this one.

[PriorityOne]

Slightly off topic but relevant nevertheless.... is that we've "created" an underclass of obnoxious individuals over the last 30 years or so; partly due to the Benefits culture of the 1980/90s. We also had the army of middle-class do-gooders who believed that underprivileged children could be helped by paying for them to be sent on jollies and.... the politically correct brigade who invented a host of labels to "explain" behaviours/situations so as not to offend anyone (FFS!)

 

Years later, we have generations of people who don't want to or "can't" work... and while I continue to stick up for people who are trapped in a system that no longer offers a living wage any more (and this is a huge issue with me), there are plenty of underclass parents out there who continue to churn out more and more kids in order to get this and that Benefit as a "right".

 

These parents make a mockery of the Special Educational Needs system by deferring blame away from themselves and pushing for a diagnosis to justify certain behaviours in their children. A diagnosis will then open the floodgates to help/support from outside agencies and other Benefits that will "help"... There are families with 3 - 4 children on disability benefits for being nothing more than little sh*ts... being taken away on holidays to Wales and other fancy places, while decent people sit and watch it happen in amazement. This leaves fewer resources for genuine SEN kids, which is disgusting. I have parents that come into school stinking of p*ss, drunk, incoherent through drugs and "disabled"... yet still able to get jiggy with it enough to churn out more kids to stay in the system... who will amount to nothing in life.

 

I see/hear it every day as part of my job (in a secondary school).... and the media do tend to home in on these people to divert attention away from the living wage issue from time to time, yes.... but because the Gov. does b*gger all about any of it (in reality).... but tries to convince us it is through a variety of PR-type rubbish, the problem grows gets worse for everyone; workers and non-workers alike.... until we're left fighting amongst ourselves and pointing the finger at ALL individuals on Benefits, which is entirely unjustified...

 

Benefits are a symptom (and sometimes the cause) of a much bigger social problem... the way society has become. I'll admit to falling on both side of the fence with the Benefits issue in terms of society paying cack wages for working people against the cost of living... vs. the growth of the underclass and their children on Benefits. People will do what they have to do in order to survive; it's human nature to get the best deal possible. Whether this is by lawful/moral means or not appears to go out of the window in the process.... but until the Gov. makes a real improvement for people, including working pay and conditions and clamps down on the "disabled" underclass and their children, the situation will grow until it's completely out of control.

 

Rant over...

[JonCris]

Re the original question...the Court process is in the public domain. The newspapers decide which cases to publish, not the prosecuting authority. As a Fraud Investigator I hear all the time that the only punishment people fear is getting their name in the papers, so I must admit I actively encourage our local rag to attend some days when I've got cases in court. I might even issue a press release, but I can't decidde if it's published or not.

 

It's part of the Justice system, anyone can turn up and view the workings of a court, including the press.

 

Good will you admit to prosecuting claimants who have claimed the 'wrong' benefit & had they claimed their correct entitlement there still would have been no loss to the exchequer

[silverbreak]

Slightly off topic but relevant nevertheless.... is that we've "created" an underclass of obnoxious individuals over the last 30 years or so; partly due to the Benefits culture of the 1980/90s. We also had the army of middle-class do-gooders who believed that underprivileged children could be helped by paying for them to be sent on jollies and.... the politically correct brigade who invented a host of labels to "explain" behaviours/situations so as not to offend anyone (FFS!)

 

Years later, we have generations of people who don't want to or "can't" work... and while I continue to stick up for people who are trapped in a system that no longer offers a living wage any more (and this is a huge issue with me), there are plenty of underclass parents out there who continue to churn out more and more kids in order to get this and that Benefit as a "right".

 

These parents make a mockery of the Special Educational Needs system by deferring blame away from themselves and pushing for a diagnosis to justify certain behaviours in their children. A diagnosis will then open the floodgates to help/support from outside agencies and other Benefits that will "help"... There are families with 3 - 4 children on disability benefits for being nothing more than little sh*ts... being taken away on holidays to Wales and other fancy places, while decent people sit and watch it happen in amazement. This leaves fewer resources for genuine SEN kids, which is disgusting. I have parents that come into school stinking of p*ss, drunk, incoherent through drugs and "disabled"... yet still able to get jiggy with it enough to churn out more kids to stay in the system... who will amount to nothing in life.

 

I see/hear it every day as part of my job (in a secondary school).... and the media do tend to home in on these people to divert attention away from the living wage issue from time to time, yes.... but because the Gov. does b*gger all about any of it (in reality).... but tries to convince us it is through a variety of PR-type rubbish, the problem grows gets worse for everyone; workers and non-workers alike.... until we're left fighting amongst ourselves and pointing the finger at ALL individuals on Benefits, which is entirely unjustified...

 

Benefits are a symptom (and sometimes the cause) of a much bigger social problem... the way society has become. I'll admit to falling on both side of the fence with the Benefits issue in terms of society paying cack wages for working people against the cost of living... vs. the growth of the underclass and their children on Benefits. People will do what they have to do in order to survive; it's human nature to get the best deal possible. Whether this is by lawful/moral means or not appears to go out of the window in the process.... but until the Gov. makes a real improvement for people, including working pay and conditions and clamps down on the "disabled" underclass and their children, the situation will grow until it's completely out of control.

 

Rant over...

 

So what do you suggest Euthanasia or sterilisation? Are you sure youre working in the right job?

[PriorityOne]

So what do you suggest Euthanasia or sterilisation? Are you sure youre working in the right job?

 

Probably best I don't comment on that one.... not everyone's fit to be a parent merely because they have the physical equipment though, or is your opinion different?

 

It's not that I'm in the wrong job, more that I've seen far too much from the inside (of the job) out, unfortunately...

[Bookworm]

Well, P1 already knows my views on her views

 

To give the other side of the story, in case people think: "oh, she works in a school, she must know what she's talking about", allow me to give the point of view of someone who has gone through the system, and now advocates and supports people who need the help to fight that system:

 

Contrary to what people and the media would have you believe, claiming any kind of disability benefit is NOT easy. In fasct, it is anything but, and time and again, people who should get it get knocked back and sometimes just give up.

 

The myth that kids get over-diagnosed with SEN so that parents get excused from their repsonsabilities is just that: a MYTH. I'm sure that like in every layer of society, you will find people who know how to flout the benefit system, that is true, but they are by and large a tiny, tiny minority. The reality is that more people get turned down for benefits to which they should be entitled than there are who claim benefits falsely. Even more so when it comes to disability benefits for children.

 

In order for a child to be diagnosed with something like ADHD (which I believe is what P1 is referring to), you will need:

- to go and see your GP and get him to agree to a referral to your CAMHS.

- wait for the CAMHS referral. where I live, the current waiting list for URGENT cases (suicidal, violence etc) is 20 months.

- 1st visit, fairly informal, where if you're lucky, you will get a provisional diagnosis.

- 2nd visit, a battery of tests with 2 to 3 people in attendance who must agree on their diagnosis.

- 3rd visit, the psychologist may or may not give you a firm diagnosis.

Bear in mind that these visits will of course be weeks or months apart, during which if you have a child with suspected ADHD, he is literally climbing the walls day and/or night and getting in all kinds of scrapes at school, with the array of suspensions and exclusions that go with it. Oh yes, and of course teachers, neighbours and people like P1 who are pointing the finger and calling you a bad parent, as if you needed that kind of comment going on.

 

Once you have a diagnosis, you will have further referrals, paediatrician, etc... and then will come the talk about medication: yes or no, which one, what dosage etc... then will follow weeks of trial and error dosages to find the medication that doesn't turn your child into a zombie, allows him to calm down sufficiently that he can function but not so much that he acts like one of the living dead.

 

Now, if that wasn't enough, you will have to try to get him the help he needs at school, and your local authority is more interested in budget than actually helping the child. So that's another few months or years of battle.

 

As for benefits, which is after all the purpose of this thread, the DLA application form alone is 48 pages long, of questions which ask you over and over again the same questions phrased differently. If you get it wrong, you'll get turned down. If you get it right, you'll probably get turned down too. Then you'll have to ask for a review, then appeal and go to tribunal. If you know enough law to beat the DWP at their own game and can hold your own in front of the tribunal, then you'll finally, maybe, get granted the benefit. For a limited time, after which you'll have to start again.

 

I'd say that for a fairly savvy and combative parent, it takes a minimum of 2, 2.5 years from 1st visit to GP to getting the child both the benefit and SEN support they are entitled to. For many, it's a lot, lot longer.

 

So yeah, I'd say to anyone who thinks that it's a walk in the park to get your child mis-diagnosed so you can get the benefits attached: Pull the other one, it's got bells on. ;-)

[PriorityOne]

Your views are from someone who's been through the system. My views are from someone who works within it.... so you're bound to get differences Bookie.... I've also been through the system in my time and found it hard.... and I've known others who've been throught the system and have milked it for all it's worth with ease.

 

As for ADHD... it's a modern "diagnosis for a social disorder... sometimes in conjunction with another medical condition, but not always.... and to say that particular label isn't open to abuse is just plain naive... sorry.

[jackieandwayne]

Well, all I can say is I worked from 16 - 47 without a break for kids etc, and all those years I paid so much tax and Ni into the system you wouldn;t believe.. For the first time in my life, and because i am genuinely ill, I had to enter the benefit system. My God. Am I some sort of pig with a number in my ear or something? That was my first impression. They just make you feel guilty, worthless etc and are no help whatsoever to anyone with a genuine illness.

 

I will not feel guilty for being ill and needing benefits, especially not when this bloody country has happily taken my money from me for, what is it? 32 years? I paid in and now I want payback.

 

So, anyone who wants to take a pop at me for being a scrounger, you know the type, "it said it in the paper so it must be true", you come and say it to my face.

 

Of course [causing problems] the system is wrong, and anyone fool enough to do it and get caught and punished, tough tittie - they shouldn't be doing it. All the moaners about people on benefits who are happy in a job right now, just wait and see what's coming, more job losses and so on. Little by little, more and more people are going to join the scroungers club - so I suggest that those who are so quick right now to slate any unfortunate individual who has no choice but to try and survive on benefit, takes a deep breath and thinks for 10 seconds before you say anything. And never forget that empty vessels make most noise.

 

As you can probably tell, I have not had a good experience of our benefit system! I see huge trouble coming.

[PriorityOne]

 

All the moaners about people on benefits who are happy in a job right now, just wait and see what's coming, more job losses and so on. Little by little, more and more people are going to join the scroungers club - so I suggest that those who are so quick right now to slate any unfortunate individual who has no choice but to try and survive on benefit, takes a deep breath and thinks for 10 seconds before you say anything. And never forget that empty vessels make most noise.

 

As you can probably tell, I have not had a good experience of our benefit system! I see huge trouble coming.

 

Not sure if your post included me or not but... if I find myself needing to claim Benefits again, I'll claim them. I was a lone parent on Benefits for many years before going back to work, so know about the stigma you're talking about. My post was about people on Benefits churning out children and not bringing them up properly...

[Bookworm]

As for ADHD... it's a modern "diagnosis for a social disorder... sometimes in conjunction with another medical condition, but not always.... and to say that particular label isn't open to abuse is just plain naive... sorry.

No. It's a diagnosis for a social communication disorder. The word "social" refers to the "communication" part, not the "disorder" part. To misunderstand the condition and misinterpret it because of that is just plain ignorant, sorry too.

 

People like you play right into the hands of the newest minister who was telling us 2-3 weeks ago that there was "too much diagnosis" of autism, also darkly hinting at the "abuse" that was going on, when the only abuse that goes on is the one at the hands of the ones who have all the bloody power to control the media, control whatever we get told, control how things are handled from the inside, and ultimately can turn people against one another so easily with their bloody money and propaganda power.