Benefit Cheats

[Jeanjaquessmoothie]

they're still breaking the law, regardless of the amounts involved

[dave]

...as are people that are speeding, murdering, littering etc... If one law breaker is to be named and shamed, then every law breaker, irrelevent of the which law is broken, should also be named and shamed.

 

Personally, I think the courts handle this stuff, and if it's not broken it shouldn't be fixed.

[setmefree]

Would you still feel the same Dave,if someone broke into your house and stole you xmas presents,then in court they receive a suspended sentence and have to pay compensation at £5 a week coz they are on benefits.

[dave]

Yeah, probably. Can't have one rule for one and a different rule for someone else.

 

Anyway, what's Christmas presents?

[setmefree]

Yeah, probably. Can't have one rule for one and a different rule for someone else.

 

Ok thanks for your opinion

[Guest louis wu]

Anyway, what's Christmas presents?

 

Your having a laugh:D , even if you don't indulge in the act of giving and recieving at christmas, you know what a christmas present is:eek:.

[dave]

Yeah, it was a joke - a reference to the fact that I have no dosh to get any this year.

[Jeanjaquessmoothie]

Personally, I think the courts handle this stuff, and if it's not broken it shouldn't be fixed.

 

I agree, as per my previous posts.

[Guest louis wu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave

Personally, I think the courts handle this stuff, and if it's not broken it shouldn't be fixed.

 

 

I agree, as per my previous posts.

 

 

My only problem with this, is that more often than not, I feel the court are too lenient and the punishment does not fit the crime.

 

I know we can all quote instances where a court decision can be made to fit our argument, but when cases of all types are reported upon, the type of conversation I have with frieneds and colleagues generally centres around 'is that all they got'.

 

I am glad I don't make the decisions, and maybe I only see a distorted view of the true reality of this matter, but I don't think I'm alone in having these sentiments.

[setmefree]

You certainly ain't alone my friend,many have shown interest in this thread and have also praised me for raising a such a subject

[Jeanjaquessmoothie]

I've also said that I feel the courts are too soft on these, and most other law breakers as well, the law in this country is generally an ass.

 

How many times have you seen drunk drivers hit people, kill them and get away with a 2 year ban and a fine?!

 

Or hit and run drivers with no insurance, who get a 3 week jail term after they've hit someone.

[Goldlady]

I had no idea until recently how much taxpayers' money is spent providing legal aid to the 'ronald stanley fletcher's' of this world - everyone is entitled to a defence. But try to get legal aid for other matters these days:mad:

[MilkTrayMan]

...But that makes a statement about how much Solicitors/Barristers etc charge/earn, rather than the validity of any legal action...Surely??...

[blueskies]

I don't think that they should be named and shamed at all. For the majority the shaming effect wouldn't work as they probably felt shame while they were doing it but could see no other option.

 

There now follows a little bit about my history that makes me feel the way I do

 

When I was 7 my dad left my mum and, as she was the only person that could look after me, she had to leave her job. For nearly a year my mum lived on benefits. Benefits which, after paying the routine bills (gas and electric only, we had no telephone) left just enough money for food and that was it. My mum quite often didn't eat as there wouldn't be enough food for both of us. Things came to a head just as she met the man who is now my step-dad. She cried for nearly a day because she burnt the kettle (old stove type one) and couldn't afford a new one. The only social outlet was the Gingerbread single parents charity.

My mum still feels shame that she never had the money to pay for me to go on a trip with Gingerbread, which they let me go on for free. She feels this shame 23 years later.

 

I think if my mum had the opportunity to play the system at that time, just to earn a few extra pounds to help her cope, maybe to be able to feed herself a little better, maybe to buy me a new coat for school so I wasn't bullied, maybe to even be able to throw me a birthday party that she could invite my friends round to. I think she would have jumped at the chance, but I know that she would not ever be able to get over the shame of it, like she still mentions the kindness of Gingerbread and her embarrassment over it.

 

A large portion of these 'cheats' are living lives like this now. Give them a break.

 

Prosecutions are carried out in the magistrates court, just like other criminal offences. The general public is usually free to sit in court as are the press, so there is no huge secret of conviction anyway.

They are carried out in public not because of the naming and shaming side of it, but to demonstrate the justice in the system. Justice that would be denied by having a closed legal system.

[Hippy-chick]

Sweets, this is just an argument for the benefits system not being enough to live on.

 

As, fact is, your mum did not abuse it.

 

Fact is, if she did - would she not have accepted the responsibility for so doing?

 

Laws is laws. Campaign against them all you like.

 

But if you accept the very fabric of our society, obey them or pay the penalty.

[blueskies]

The question was: Should we name and shame??

 

Why shame those who already probably feel shame for what they have been forced by circumstance to do?

[Hippy-chick]

And your sob story was lovely.

 

Fact is, your mum did not do it. For whatever reasons.

 

So what conclusions do we draw from that?

[blueskies]

As she had not ever, and has not since, committed a criminal act in her life she didn't have the knowledge required maybe.

[Hippy-chick]

That she is a lovely person. And has no place in this thread?

[make them aktiv runners]

Blue, your mum simply knew right from wrong, and like many others realised that no matter how hard times were she would be there for you every day of the year (rather than risk going to jail).

 

I too saw many hard times as a child, but my parents (like your mum) had pride and respect for the law. Ironically I knew several otrher parents who quite frankly lived it up on the benefit system - they worked on the side and were they only people able to go out 7 days a week literally crawling home after! (oh and their children were deprived of the income for basic needs in case you wonder).

 

I still today personally know people who have abused the benefit system and to put it bluntly they were definately not in the difficult situations your mum faced.

[Hippy-chick]

My point perzactly Aktiv.

 

Bluey just gave us a red herring argument.

 

Nothing to do with the actual question.

[conalot]

as someone whos job it is to go into an live in to assist people with severe disabilitys and also people who are dying but wish to remain at home i have first hand experience of how wrong the benifits system is in my experience its because of all the people who are unlawfully claiming that are making it hard for the deserving people who have a real problem dont like play acting to get benifit it is hard to admit that a once able bodied person now cant even put on their own shoes or even go to the loo unaided it is humilliating not being able to do this so telling a complete stranger is usually incredibly difficult but unfortunatly many know how to play act so well they are given high rates of benifit that arnt deserved an we all know a few without looking to hard around us

 

so if getting rid an naming these individuals gets rid of a few or puts of a few then nice one then the geniuine deserving claims might get a look in

 

an i have personal experience of this as my husband who has always worked an at the time we had a toddler an i had just had a baby had an accident with an angle grinder cutting through his leg above the knee was unable to work we recieved no cash at all for 15 weeks then when we did it was basic sick money not backdated as at his medical he couldnt play on his injury consumed an unhealthy amount of pain killers as to admit that he was unfit to provide for his family was to much for him

which is the case of many people we all have a sob story to tell

 

benifit is there to help those who are in need of help not as a supliment to other earnings if a few less people were doing the system in there might be some left for those who need it

[conalot]

an thats my early morning rant over so there lol

[setmefree]

Blue, your mum simply knew right from wrong, and like many others realised that no matter how hard times were she would be there for you every day of the year (rather than risk going to jail).

Well that's a point,many on this thread have said benefit's cheats only con the system to see their kids have basic needs,well isn't their a greater need for the children to have their parent's, after all these people are risking going to jail if caught

[make them aktiv runners]

I agree Conalot that the system is unfair to the real needy. I could also rant here but will keep to one sentence. Certain claimants should simply be given job opportunities which they either take or get no benefit.