Overpaid wages

[HeatherMc]

My husband was overpaid by about £900, not his fault. He agreed that they could take it all out in Septembers pay which they didn't do. Now they want to take it all out again but my husband does not want them to take it in a lump sum but pay it monthly. Are they allowed to takle it all without permission or can we insist on them only taking so much monthly?

 

Thanks.

[GlasweJen]

You should be able to negotiate a monthly payment, it's unreasonable to make such a huge deduction in one swoop.

[MilkTrayMan]

Not withstanding any recent Repeals of any 'Truck Acts' or 'Wages Acts', it's my understanding that an Employer has to have the expressed consent of the Employee, before any deduction from their wages can be made, other than for deductions made on behalf of Satutory Bodies...i.e Income tax, National Insurance, Court Fines etc....

[pt2537]

Hi

 

Deductions from wages are covered by the Employment Rights Act 1996

 

which can be found here Results within legislation - Statute Law Database

 

an employer may make certain deductions from wages and if you look at section 13 and 14 this tells you what they can do

 

 

regards

paul

[HeatherMc]

Hi

 

Deductions from wages are covered by the Employment Rights Act 1996

 

which can be found here Results within legislation - Statute Law Database

 

an employer may make certain deductions from wages and if you look at section 13 and 14 this tells you what they can do

 

 

regards

paul

 

Thanks for that Paul, I have had a read at it and my understanding is that they are entitled to make deductions from his wages, which we are not disputing we just don't want it all deducted in one go. It doesn't seem to say how much they are allowed to take or whether they need to come to an arrangement with him first (although i'm probably not reading it properly). So do you think we legally have a right to pay it monthly or do you think they have the legal right to take it all? Also, it's the Army and they seem to be a law unto themselves, do normal employment laws apply?

[cal37]

You have a right to request it to paid back in installments. This has to be at a reasonable rate.

 

They really should of offered this in the first place but seeing that they have not, put it in writing that you are happy to repay it at X rate per month.

[prushton]

Itemised pay statements

All employees must have an itemised pay statement containing a minimum of the gross pay, net pay, amounts and reasons of deductions and the methods by which every part of the net pay will be paid. The statement, or pay slip, must be given to the employee either prior to or on the pay day.

Deductions from Wages

An employer is allowed to make certain deductions from an employees wages, which include Tax & NI, attachments of earnings, authorised third person payments without prior written authorisation from the employee.

Even if the employee owes their employer money, repayment of a loan for example, and fails to pay it the employer, without specific written consent from the employee, can not just deduct it from their wages.

There are certain payments that are not classed as wages, which include advances, redundancy payments and compensation.

A retail shop worker may have a maximum of 10% of their gross wages deducted to pay back cash and stock shortages following written notification.

If a complaint to a tribunal is upheld then the deduction is made illegal and, no matter how justified the deduction was, must be paid back, furthermore, no other court action to recover the deduction may be made.

Overpayment of Wages

An employer is allowed to recover overpayments of wages, if the amount was quite large the employer would generally be expected to inform and then negotiate a repayment schedule with the employee. An employee need not pay back the overpayment if they can prove to a court that they did not know nor could they have reasonably been expected to have known of the overpayment.

[prushton]

Your employer cannot recover this money from your wages without your written consent. If he does it would constitute an illegal deduction from wages and you could bring a claim to an employment tribunal (within a 3 month period).

 

Before you brought a claim against him for illegal deductions from wages you must exhaust your company grievance proceedures as laid down in your terms and conditions of employment that should have been given to you when you started working there.

 

Generally you should submit a grievance letter to him , stating that you are not happy about the situation etc ( see ACAS code of practice for grievance proceedures at Acas - Home) Your employer could not take all of this money at once , even if you knew there was an overpayment. You are entitled to agree a repayment plan, that you agree with and at a rate that you could reasonably afford.

[AaronM]

Sorry but I am afraid your wrong.

 

It does fall under the wages act and is covered under the illegal dudctions from wages however the employer does not need to satisfy any points in the law when it is a recovery of an overpayment of wages or expenses

[pt2537]

Which provision of the Wages Act are you basing this statement AaronM?

 

the Employment Rights Act repealed certain sections of the Wages Act so im interested to hear exactley what section your statement is made

[pt2537]

Results within legislation - Statute Law Database

 

If you look at the above link you will see that much of the old Wages Act 1986 no longer is in force

[AaronM]

See here:

 

Contracts of employment: changes, breach of contract and deductions from wages - BERR

 

Circumstances in which deductions are lawful

One of three conditions has to be met for an employer lawfully to make deductions from a worker's wages or to receive payments from a worker. These are that the deduction or payment is:

• required or authorised by legislation (for example income tax or national insurance contributions); or
  
• authorised by the worker's contract - provided that the worker has been given a written copy of the relevant terms or a written explanation of them before it is made; or
  
• agreed to in writing by the worker before it is made.
  

Top

 

Circumstances in which the protection does not apply

The conditions set out above do not have to be met where a deduction is made or a payment received:

• to recover an earlier overpayment of wages or expenses by the employer to the worker; or
  
• as a result of disciplinary proceedings provided for in legislation (for example, police disciplinary proceedings); or
  
• a consequence of the worker taking part in a strike or other industrial action; or
  
• to satisfy a court order or a tribunal decision - provided in the case of a deduction that the worker has given his or her prior written agreement to it.
  

[pt2537]

Sorry but I am afraid your wrong.

 

It does fall under the wages act and is covered under the illegal dudctions from wages however the employer does not need to satisfy any points in the law when it is a recovery of an overpayment of wages or expenses

 

SO you were wrong as it is NOT under the Wages Act as its been repealled

[AaronM]

Or here:

 

Employment Rights Act 1996 (c. 18)

 

Excepted deductions

(1) Section 13 does not apply to a deduction from a worker’s wages made by his employer where the purpose of the deduction is the reimbursement of the employer in respect of—

(a) an overpayment of wages, or

[AaronM]

SO you were wrong as it is NOT under the Wages Act as its been repealled

 

My apologise then it is under the employement right act, either way I am correct in saying it can be deducted without concent from the employee

[pt2537]

My apologise then it is under the employement right act, either way I am correct in saying it can be deducted without concent from the employee

 

Oh no i agree with what you are saying, but i always like to make sure that where Acts of Parliament are being quoted, care must be taken to ensure that they are still relevent as it avoids embarrassment , when you go to your employer and say "you cant do that because the Wages Act 1986 prohibits it" only for the HR department to turn around and say that Act has been repealed

 

that is my main point

[BankFodder]

We had a similar problem - made an overpayment to an admin assistant who used to work for us. Her userid was Karnevil. We never saw the money again despite requests.

[1pc1]

I have a similar problem but the overpayment is just over 8k gross over a 12 month period. Monthly salaried but no snail mailed Wage Slip. If I want a wage slip I have to print it off the SAP system software our company uses and which I have access to.

I changed jobs last year so was no longer entitled to shift allowance but they kept paying me it. I never noticed because I don't really look at my wage slip, I just check my online banking. My salary with change of jobs went up a fair bit too and I was doing occasional trips offshore so as I say I never had any reason to doubt my pay amount. Been with the company for three years.

 

I have read this post but am still none the wiser as to employees rights with regards to the employer taking the money back without consent.

 

My employer is a large company and they are prepared to negotiate a repayment plan but I would like to know where I stand legally first before I start paying the money back.

 

Thanks

[GroundControl]

If its an overpaymwnt the CAN reclaim it from your wages without permission

I would negotiate if you can !!

I was injured in an RTA in march was paid till the end of the month should have been 2 weeks SSP they have deducted every penny of SSP since thats 3 months with no money at all !!

if in doubt phone ACAS thats what I did

[MilkTrayMan]

Hi GroundControl!

Methinks that in YOUR case, there MAY be an assumption that compensation for loss of earnings would be sought from the Third Party's (...or your own, if applicable) insurers in the RTA.

...

[GroundControl]

Yes I agree I was just stating that it is perfectly legal for the employer to recoupe an overpayment !!

in my case the employer was very agressive to recoup

which is why I said to negotiate a suitable repayment plan with their employer if possible

as I said they can doit I havent had a penny since march as its all been recouped (officially the SSP has been paid(to the employer) and so no fiancial help from anyone ( and have had to use savings (all claimable of course)

[twoofus]

Your employer is not allowed to make a deduction from your pay unless:

 

Your contract says they can - and your employer has given you a written copy of the part of the contract which says so, or a written explanation of it, before making the deduction.

 

It is required or authorised by law, such as income tax, national insurance or student loan repayments.

 

You have agreed in writing to a deduction before the conduct takes place for which your employer proposes to make a deduction.

 

This applies unless this is not the first time this has happened.

 

End of story.

[49scream]

Can I just add my two cents in here as a payroll manager. Employers are allowed to recover an overpayment of wages but employees do have some defences they can use:

 

1) Estoppel - an employer can not recover an overpayment if ALL 3 of the following have been met -

i - The employee did not cause or contribute to the overpayment.

ii - The employee has spent the money in good faith - believing they were/are entitled to it.

iii - The employer must have actively confirmed that the money was correctly due to the employee. A payslip or P60 / P45 is not an active confirmation but a call to the payroll dept and a response of 'it's correct you can spend it' is fine.

 

2) The second defence that is a relatively recent development - 'Unjust enrichment / change of position'. To save going into detail this is a good overview: Deductions From Wages

 

Thanks

[Guest Gertie100]

Ok chaps, I'm confused...

Page 1 has a post from Aaron which states the part of the employment act which states the employer can re-coup overpaid wages.

Page 2 has various posts which state they can't.

 

Which is right?

[twoofus]

My post is taken directly from the governments website, it is the law. Your contract of employment needs to be looked at to see if they have specified a procedure on overpayments. Basically if it doesn't then they have no right without YOUR permission.