Help please! cca not complied with now debt collectors involved

[Dollydoo]

In response to my letter (thread 71) the Halifax have come back with "they believe that the information they have supplied me with is sufficient to prove the enforcement of the debt, if i'm still not happy I can refer my concerns to the ombudsman". Would someone mind just looking over my application (which I did sign) that I posted near the begining of the thread just to check again (I'm in need of reassurance cos I think this is going to go to court). Any advice of what I should do next would be very much appreciated. Or should I just wait for them to start the court proceedings and take it from there?

[pt2537]

Hi,

 

ive already given my opinion on the documents they supplied

 

and nothing has changed.

 

let me put this question to you..........

 

they assert that the documents are a credit agreement yes?

 

ok well then why does it say on page 1 the part you signed Your right to cancel,blah blah blah details of how to cancel will be sent through the post

 

and on page 2 which i assume they are trying to say is the back of page 1 it says about how to cancel and where to send the cancelation notice

 

why would they say on the front that they will post you cancelation details if the details are on the back?

 

now i believe that they are not part of the agreement that you Signed but i believe they are 2 seperate documents so the first document MUST contain the prescribed terms which are the Rate of interest, credit limit and how to pay

 

 

since none of them are there its not gonna cut the mustard

[Dollydoo]

Ok thanks - just needed reassurance. Should I write back to them pointing out the obvious or wait for them to take it further? Thanks again for your help.

[The GodMother]

it says application form on it and the cancelation rights are missing what more needs confirming?

[Dollydoo]

unless you're completely confident or an expert in the field, both of which I'm not - unfortunately even that which is most obvious may need to be pointed out :o What do you think I should do next?

[Dollydoo]

that was supposed to be the "embarrassed" smilie!!!

[Dollydoo]

I'm in 2 minds (as per) should I ignore & wait for court action or should I send this letter;

Thank you for your letter dated 27th March 2008.

You stated that you felt that the copy documents that you had sent me were sufficient to prove this alleged debt was enforceable. According to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this is clearly not the case. I am still waiting for you to provide me with a true copy of the signed, fully executed credit agreement. As already pointed out to you in my earlier letter – a copy of a mere application form is not sufficient. As you are aware, the prescribed terms should be contained in the signature document – these are missing from the application form and the separate document you have sent purporting to be the credit agreement is not only unsigned but clearly not part of the original application. A clear giveaway is the part where it states that charges, ie late payment charges shall be applied to the account at £12 – can you please explain why these charges were added to the account at £20?

I have taken advice on this matter and until you can provide me with a true copy of the signed credit agreement, quite frankly, this alleged debt is not enforceable in a court of law.

I welcome your explanation with regards to the charges at your earliest convenience so that it may assist me in putting together my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman, along with any other relevant bodies that I deem fit, and if necessary, the media.

Any thoughts would be helpful, thanks

[Dollydoo]

especially if any mistakes are spotted!

[Dollydoo]

Anyone have any views or suggestions?

[citizenB]

bumping for you xx

[Pinky69]

I find that these letters can go back and forward forever and it gets you nowhere fast. They cannot take legal action against you becuase there is no enforceable agreement aaaaand they know it. Trading Standards often have no teeth and you have already been given wrong advice by Consumer Direct. My preferred route is to make a formal complaint to the the bank's complaints department, give them 8 weeks in which to reply, then complain to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

[Dollydoo]

Ok thanks Pinky69 and thanks CitizenB for the bump!

[Dollydoo]

Looks like I already went down the root of official complaint So its onto the ombudsman now. Any ideas as to how I tackle the point of having made payments previously as the halifax said this constituted "acknowledgement" - I know people pay for various reasons just not sure what to say really......any pointers would be helpful, thanks.

[Pinky69]

To go to the Ombudsman, you have to make an official complaint to the Halifax Complaints department then give them 8 weeks to reply. If that is unsatisfactory then you can make an official complaint to the Ombudsman.

What went before is irrelevant and banks will use the "acknowledgement" argument to try to get you to pay when they know they have no agreement.

You have a legal right to ask for a copy of the agreement at any time and if they don't have one, the account goes into dispute and no further payment can be asked whilst the acoount remains in dispute. They know that and they are just at the usual fanny. We always want this off our backs now but it takes time and it does eventually get resolved.

[Dollydoo]

They've said in the last letter to go to the ombudsman if i'm still not happy so that's what i'm going to do. But first would like a little advice; what do i want the business to do to put things right? er, wiping the debt would be nice! how do I ask that in a nice way?! or am I simply getting the ombudsman to ask for the correct cca which the halifax simply don't have?

[ODC]

Just tell the FOS that you want them to comply with your LEGAL request for a CCA

[Pinky69]

1) they have not complied with your request for a copy of the credit agreement 2) they passed it to a DCA whilst the account was in dispute 3) the DCA has pursued you for payment in spite of the fact that the account is in dispute. In addition to a true copy of the credit agreement,you want all illegal activity on the account to cease and you want compensation for the stress and harrassment inflicted on you by the Halifax's illegal activity.

[tiglet]

I would be extremely careful about saying things such as "illegal activity" - they could take this as defamation.

 

I would request that in order to rectify the problem they :

 

1. Fully comply with your legal request for a copy of your Consumer Credit agreement under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

2. Cease all collection activity on your account until the dispute has been resolved.

 

3. Cease passing your details to third parties until such time as they produce your Consumer Credit Agreement and can therefore prove your consent to this.

 

4. Provide compensation for the distress caused by what you consider to be harassment by themselves and their allocated agents.

 

I think that should just about cover it.

[Dollydoo]

Thanks. what would be a fair level of comp to ask for? Should I mention that I've never asked for any charges to be refunded or the insurance they took (which I only noticed recently on the statements they sent)

[tiglet]

I would allow the FOS to be the judge of that, personally.

 

Do you feel you were mis-sold PPI?

[Pinky69]

You cannot ask for any level of compensation. The Ombudsman decides whether compensation is appropriate and sets the level if he believes it should be paid.

 

By the way, any behaviour contrary to the law is "illegal" - that's what the word means. It is only defamation if you describe the behaviour as illegal and it isn't.

[Pinky69]

Sorry - I should have made myself clearer. You can of course ask for compensation but it is up to the Ombudsman whether it is appropriate and you cannot ask for a specific leverl of compensation. If it is appropriate, the Ombudsman decides what the level of compensation should be.

[tiglet]

Exactly - they may ask the OP to prove it's "illegality" - better to stick to the facts without making judgements on it.

[Pinky69]

It's academic but the facts are as they are written in law. If a law is breached, that is an illegal act, whether the breach is criminal - or, as in this case, civil.

[tiglet]

There is a difference, in fact, between illegal and unlawful - always best to stick to the facts.