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    • No change in advice. Get the purchaser to take lots of photographs and if possible send you back the empty box – you will have to pay for that I suppose but you will get it back from EVRi. You may want to send a slight amendment to your letter of claim – but the date stays the same. Get a move on so you can get the claim filed well in advance of the compulsory mediation date which quite frankly will only get in your way especially as it is new and nobody really understands the rules yet
    • Good evening guys many thanks for your posts and advice. Im sorry for the late reply but i fell asleep on the sofa when i got home.  The good and bad news is that the case has been discontinued, the bad news is the claimant did not inform me of this. I wasted fuel and paid for 2 hrs of parking to find this out.  Not that it matters now but the lady in reception told me that the county court was in Gloucester today and not Cheltenham however my letter clearly says Cheltenham. So i'm assuming the county court moves between the 2 courts. I was actually looking forward to getting a judgement in my favour but it was not to be. The woman told me that the claimant should have informed me.  Anyway guys i thank you all times a million for your professional assistance with this one. It looks like they new they would lose and gave up, its appalling that they allowed to waste the court's time as well as mine.  
    • An interesting moderation debate chaps! But something very strange has happened with my claim today. Shortly after I posted the Letter of Claim to P2G I received a text message from them - "Your parcel (P2G-123005161) was delivered at 12.55 to CF5 *** (original buyer's post code) with Evri Drop-off"  I messaged the buyer (who I refunded in full (£265) for the original non-delivery on 27 March) and asked if it had indeed turned up. He confirmed it had been delivered and taken in by his wife, with a photo taken to confirm delivery. But the box I'd so carefully packed the clubs in was, of course, empty, except for the original packing material I'd used, and the buyer's details which I'd also included in the box. I'd used getting on for half a roll of heavy duty black ducktape to seal the box, especially at both ends, and the buyer advised one end had been cut/torn open (likely when the 8 golf clubs were extracted) and then loosely resealed.  Needless to say, no explanation for the 1 month delay in delivery, and Parcel2Go have emailed me this evening to advise they've decided not to approve my claim as 'The parcel started to track'. Grateful for your thoughts on this significant new development. I presume the onus is now upon me to prove the parcel was empty upon delivery - how would you suggest I tackle that? And should I draft and submit a new Letter of Claim to P2G, resetting the 14 day clock?    Many thanks G59 
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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I hate capitalism.

abbey = bees
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My financial life's in a mess and I would love some help.


Ok. First up, I had a student overdraft of £3000 with Barclays. I'm sure it incurred all kinds of charges before the finally sent it to some debt collectors agency. They've sent hundreds of letters (I get the feeling they can't come and take my stuff and sending letters is all they can do).


I'm now in a position to pay it back (and I want to because I can't get a debit card on my new account and have a withdrawl limit of £200 a day which is a bitch). The debt people have offered me a discount if i pay it in one hit. The debt stands at £3400 and they'll let me off for £2500. IS this a good move? Should I try and claim back any of the charges before I pay it?




I also had an account at abbey. This makes me sound like a spongeing ****** but i was just unemployed. I had no money in that account and three direct debits got bounced. the debits wouldve come to about £10 in total (ebay fees), but i've ended up with a debt of £208. I dont mind paying it if I was in the wrong, but if they've been unreasonable with their charges then i'd like not to pay it. I've requested my statements from them, so when they arrive I'll post the lowdown on what they charged.


Anybody in the know with an opinion on these things would be greatly appreciated.





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Hi there abbey, and welcome to the CAG.

Who are the debt collection agnecy chasing for student overdraft? How have you been offered a discount? In writing? Have you sent the debt collection agnecy (DCA) a CCA request (if you need further explination of what I am saying then ask)?

Dont believe a debt collection agency, and dont speak to them, all communication in writing only. Otherwise you could end up paying lots of money and then they still chase you for the rest!

I would send a CCA request with the £1 fee to the DCA, and go from there. See if they are "entitled" to chase you for the money...


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Also with your bank charges, we are all awaiting the outcome of the test case due early next year about bank charges. however you could send a letter to abbey requesting the charges back, which sound extremely high!. They are unlikely to refund at this stage, but it is worth asking. There are letters available in the consumer action group library at the top of the sign in page!


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Hi red.

Cheers for the reply, I was ready to pay up blindly but then I thought you might have a point. What's a CCA request and what's the £1 fee? If you could enlighten me, please do.


I called them on Friday. I didn't realise that it was deadline day for the 'settlement'. I said I wanted it in writing and he said no. I said in that case I'd have to arrange a payment plan and he said no. I then said if they wouldn't let me pay off the cash there wasn't much I could do. I suppose I expect to hear from them soon. I know they'll offer me a settlement again.


Anyway, fill me in on that there form and I'll get it in writing.





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Hi P.

Hope that this helps:

Guidelines - Requests For An Original Agreement Under The Consumer Credit Act 1974

A debt becomes unenforceable under the CCA if a creditor does not supply a true copy of the signed credit agreement within 12 working days of it being requested, after a further month the creditor has committed an offence. This offence can be reported to the Trading Standards Authority (in the creditors area, not your local one), or the FSA.


The debt remains unenforceable for as long as the creditor fails to produce the signed credit agreement – this means if they produce the agreement some months down the line, they are quite within their rights to enforce it. They do not need to take any further action to enforce the debt. A debtor cannot take any action against the creditor for failing to produce the signed credit agreement within the prescribed time, because that is up to the agencies that the offence has been reported to. Any sanctions that may be imposed are at the discretion of these agencies, and it is not a matter that the debtor can take to the civil court.


If a CCJ has already been entered against a debt, then there is no point in requesting the agreement under the CCA, if your intention is to argue that the debt is unenforceable, since the debt has already been enforced. You can however request a true copy of the original signed credit agreement if you wish to check original terms and conditions etc. If they do not supply it then your only recourse is to report them to the aforementioned agencies. It would be very difficult to prove that they didn’t have the agreement at the time judgment was entered.


It is imperative that you continue to pay any debt under the terms of a CCJ.


Issuing a court claim for non-compliance of a CCA request in all probability achieves nothing to benefit to the debtor, as a court claim is likely to spur a detailed search which could well end up with them producing a perfectly acceptable original signed agreement in court – which would result in the debtor losing the case, and being made liable for the creditor’s costs.


If after requesting a true copy of a signed credit agreement the creditor fails to produce it, it does not mean that the debt does not exist, because at the end of the day the debtor spent the money and therefore they owe it and need to pay it back The debtor may now however be in a good position to make a full and final offer to clear the debt.

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Some of that is not so relevant, but you need to send a copy of the letter I will post up for you with all your personal details and a cheque (or postal order) for £1. as your fee for the CCA request.

Send it recorded delivery!


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Dear Sirs


I am presently striving to organise my personal information and can find no reference to the alleged debt and/or agreement regarding the above reference for my ***card/loan etc********. Therefore, please supply me with a true copy of the original agreement.


You will appreciate that this is my right and your legal obligation under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.


I also understand that it is your obligation to provide me with a statement of account and I look forward to receiving that as well.

Please also supply a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement.


Again, this is, you will appreciate a statutory obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Please find enclosed the £1 statutory payment for the above request, written from my **bank name***account number ******, cheque number ******.OR POSTAL ORDER (delete which is applicable!)

Please note this payment is NOT TO BE OFFSET against any alleged debt.


I look forward to hearing from you within the statutory time limit of twelve working days.



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The following info came from another thread a while ago, see if this also clarifies the CCA request and what it means to you and your debt!

I have to correct you a little on this one.... if they default on producing the CCA after 12 days from receipt (recorded dellivery sig.) then the debt becomes unenforceable unless it is taken to court. One calendar month after this, they have then committed a criminal offence.


If the DCA can't produce the CCA at all... then there is nothing they can do to enforce the debt or legally collect payments from you. If you have already made payments, you can then claim them back.

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I just wanted to add, that the company that you are dealing with, may produce a true copy of your CCA request, in which case you will still be able to negotiate with them in order to settle the debt owed.

But definitely only in writing. I would suggest that you send the CCA request as above, with the fee, and then wait for 12 days after letter delivered to see if they respond. In the meantime, if you have any payments set up to the company on a monthly basis that are due for payment, then make that payment as normal.

If any monthly agreement you have to repay this debt falls after the 12 days following receipt of your letter (2 working days is normally standard allowance for delivery, but recorded helps with the actual date!), then you could if you chose to , withhold the payment, as they have not complied with your request.

Keep us posted though!

And no more phone contact! Ask them for written correspondence only!


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Also, with the charges incurred, you could send a SAR to the original creditor, along with another fee of £10. Barclays will then send you various paperwork relating to your account, which should include a list of charges and interest incurred on your account. So you could reduce your debt as well!

I know that accepting the collection agencies "settlement" did seem like a bargain, but sadly DCAs do not always tell the truth, hence get everything in writing, and if your debt is made up of lots of charges and interest, you could end up paying more back than you need to!

Again, if you want more clarification, about anything that i have written, then let me know!


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I'm now in a position to pay it back (and I want to because I can't get a debit card on my new account and have a withdrawl limit of £200 a day which is a bitch).



Paying these poeple off will not help your credit rating. It will just change the entry on your credit file from a "Default" to a "Default Satisfied" and take it from me this is just as bad. The only way of repairing you credit may be to pay them off on the proviso that they wipe the entry from your file.


But get it in writing before handing over any cash.

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I'm gonna print the form and send it to them. And I'm gonna stop the telephone contact. The little eejit was so rude on Friday I felt like hitting him. He was convinced that that was my last chance saloon and that I can expect a knock on my door any day soon. Even though I tried to arrange a payment plan. That's why I'm glad I'm on here so I can get smart with the *****.


Anyway, what's the point of sending the letter? Is there the possibility that they wont find the initial agreement then I wont have to pay?! Has this ever happened before?! And in this scenario the initial agreement would be when I opened my account about ten years ago?! Or maybe I signed more when I got the overdraft. Let me know the score on this.


Then what if they do find it? I have to pay it anyway?


Secondly, with getting a list of charges from Barclays, how do I go about that? Do I have to go into the bank or call them up and what's the £10 fee? Will it list all the charges on one sheet? AND why will I get the charges back? Is that not based on the test case? Will I have to wait and see to find out?


You see, I don't want to be extorted but I really want rid of this cloud that hangs over me. It's so sad that I'm young and my credit is ruined. It's embarassing not having a debit card. It's tragic the way the system abuses the poorer elements of society and I'd like to start some kind of rebellion.


Do you really think I could arrange for them to strike the thing from my credit history if I pay them back? I suppose that's the downside of a settlement. The upside is that I get to pay less.


Thanks for your help guys, you're doing a good thing.



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And just to add.


I paid two £200 while the account was still held by Barclays and they didn't pass it on to the collectors. I've phoned Barclays and they say they can see that I made a payment on that day, but for some reason they have to trace it. Three times I've been told they'll call me back within 24 hours, and three times they haven't. I despise their incompetence and just wanted to add this as a moan.

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Hi P, ok lets deal with stuff so far....


1) your CCA request will be sent to Credit Solutions with the £1 fee sent recorded delivery. They have 12 working days to reply. No CCA = no enforecement, therefore you would not have to pay credit solutions


2) failure to provide a true copy of your CCA request does not make the debt go away, it will still exist. However, with a non-compliance of the CCA request you can stop making payments to the debt collection agency and the original creditor i.e. barclays.


3) if you accept the debt, then you can see if you can reduce the amount by asking barclays to refund charges and interest


4) the court case is for bank charges such as a £35 fee for bouncing a dd, and the test case is impending, so we do have to wait for the outcome!

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Unless you can get the entry on your credit file updated to wipe the slate clean as Mike says, then your credit history will still show the debt albeit satisfied.

If you wish to repay the debt and are requesting that your credit file be updated without the debt showing, then you can use the SAR to see if you can reduce the amount you can offer as a full and final settlement.

It depends upin which route is best for you!

Hope that clarifies


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I've decided that I'm thick and probably deserve to be outwitted by these masters of capitalism. How their terms and rules make my dense brain dizzy. They've confused me. I'll be working for them my entire life.


Yours truly,


Downtrodden and beaten like a dead fox lying on the side of the road.

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No more debts.


No more worrying about debts.


A credit history that means I can have a debit card to spend my own hard earned money.


A credit history that allows me to spend more than £200 of my hard earned money per day.


A credit history that wont make flashing red lights go off when I try to get a mortgage.


Repaying only what's fair; I don't deserve to be exploited.


No more people being rude to me on the phone.


A page three girl with a massive pair.


A classic car in racing green.


A flat in Hampstead and a cottage in the Cottswolds.


Can you get me those things?

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