PC World Return

[thejackel1980]

Hello all,

 

I went into PC world a couple of weeks back after a graphics card.

 

I wasn't quite sure what I was after so asked a member of staff for some help.

 

Due to me purchasing my computer from PC World in 2005 the member of staff was able to find out 'exactly' what computer I had and theirfore point me in the right direction and recommend a graphics card that would work in my computer (or so he led me to believe!?).

 

I installed the graphics card and was informed insufficient power was getting to the card and it generaly slowed my whole computer down.

 

After doing a bit of research I decided without getting a new power supply, this card was never going to work properly in my computer.

 

So, I took the card back and I'm sure you can sort of guess what happened.

 

I asked for a refund and they said I couldn't have one because the product wasnt damaged.

 

I asked to see their terms and conditions and they said they didn't have a copy available within the store (surely thats breaching terms and conditions?!).

 

I asked for a credit note and they said they didn't do those. In the end I spoke to the manager and he wrote on my Receipt that I could put the cost of the graphics card, towards a new pc!!? WHAT!!! I dont want a new PC, I simply want my money back!!

 

Can anybody inform me as to where I stand in this situation?

 

I was told by a member of staff (after finding out exactly what computer I had) that the graphics card would work fine, it clearly doesnt!

 

I feel I should be entitled to a full refund.

 

Any help would be geatly appreciated.

 

Thankyou in advance

[gyzmo]

This is a sale by description, as you have asked for a product to meet a specific purpose, and that product has not met the purpose requested. therefore, you have an issue uner Sale of Goods Act (s. 13 - sale by description). This implies that where a description is given, the product should conform to that description. Furthermore, it is also a sale by description where the needs of the buye are made known, and the seller sells teh product with that in mind.

 

However, there are two issues. One is that you have to prove that you relied on the description (and that is was reasonable for you to do so) - that is not a problem. The second is the matter of proof. As you had a verbal statement, the only recourse you have is to prove that it was said to you.

 

I would go into the store and state the position to the original staff member, as follows (in a manner that you are happy as larry and want another one):

 

"I came in some time ago and bought this for my blah blah blah PC etc - I'm made up - do you remember?". Phrase it so that the person will confirm that hey said it would be suitable for your needs.

On an affirmative response, then tell them that it in fact does not, and that you want a replacement.

 

Whatever you do, be polite but firm and impress upon them that you will not leave until it is resolved.

 

If a certain someone else comes on here spouting rubbish about going to a teccy line etc, - ignore him - he seems to be somewhat fevered.

[thejackel1980]

Thanks gyzmo,

 

I read about the sale by description act. So you think I may have a good case?

 

I was with my girlfriend when I originally bought the item and the member of staff took us to a PC and looked up my computer (purchased by debit card at pc world) having a look at the specs and saying everything would be fine and dandy!

 

As you say, it will be hard to prove (his word against mine and my girlfriends) he told me this. I like the idea of getting him to admit he told me everything would be fine.

 

The managers wrote on my receipt that I can exchange the card and have the money off a PC (which I don't want!). Does this affect my rights - because i accepted the receipt back and walked out of the shop? (i didn't have time to stand round arguing all day).

 

I could try and and exchange it for something else. I can't exchange it for a replacement because my computer specs dont allow it to run properly.

[dx100uk]

speaking from solely a technical side here.

 

i would to be honest upgrade your psu asap. your PC qwill be alot happier.

 

if its that close to capacity that it does not have enough power spare to drive a better graphics card, then you are sailing close to the wind.

 

additional USB device or alike that you might soon use could put the whole PC in danger of being damaged.

 

when a psu goes through overloading, it typically takes something else with it.

 

it might well be false ecconomy in the long run.

 

 

dx100uk

[thejackel1980]

Thanks dx100uk,

 

I know I have to upgrade my PSU now but thats not really the point, PC World said I'd be fine with the card and said nothing about adding a new PSU. If I knew that I'd probably have saved my money.

 

I'm going in tomorrow to fight my case, they said it would work after being shown the full specificaton of my computer (as gyzmo said this relates to 'sale by description').

 

It clearly doesnt work without additional upgrades which I certainly wasn't made aware of before. I'm going to ask for a full refund and won't be leaving to it happens.

[gyzmo]

Following DX100UK's post, be minded that I know little of computers - my advice is purely from a legal standpoint. If there is some tecnical issue that would otherwise not affect the item bought, then that should also be considered. As to what the manage wrote, that is completely wrong. the term implied is a condition, and breach of that condition allows for a recission of the contract (meaning a refund). the relevant statute is Sale of Goods Act 1979, Section 13 (subsections 1 and 2 (2 states that the term is a condition, 1 states that the condition is implied in the contract)). what the manager wrote is worth as much as the paper it is written on and he may be considered to have committed an offence - the Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements) Order 1976 make it an offence to use a sign that purports to restrict your statutory rights. It may not work in court (I doubt it would fall under the definitions given in the order), but worthwhile scaring him with it!

[thejackel1980]

Thanks gyzmo,

 

I had a feeling what he wrote was useless ('Exchange when gentleman comes to buy new pc' signed by him). They obviousley just wanted to get rid of me.

 

So, their flouting the SOGA by telling me the card would work fine (after looking at the exact spec of my system) and it clearly doesnt.

 

They are breaching Consumer Transactions by trying to restrict my statutory rights.

 

Also, not having a copy of their terms and conditions in the store, surely that must be breaching some law?!

 

I guess I need to get the sales member to admit he looked my computer up and asssured me everything would be tickety boo!?

[gyzmo]

Not having a store policy is not illegal - the law implies what stores must do to comply with their legal obligations, and everyone is deemed to know the law. There will probably be some reference to terms and conditions, but if there i something specific that could mislead a customer, then they should display a notice prominently. In terms of the handwritten note - I doubt it would fall under the Order I mentioned (not a lot of case law really), but it certainly does indicate bad practice. A note like that should only be used if, for example, you wanted to exchange it for some reason that the store is not otherwise obliged to accept. My point about using that particular bit of legislation was merely to scare the manager. Not entirely ethical, but I think he deserves it! And don't forget to report it to Consumer Direct!

[ForestChav]

Following DX100UK's post, be minded that I know little of computers - my advice is purely from a legal standpoint. If there is some tecnical issue that would otherwise not affect the item bought, then that should also be considered. As to what the manage wrote, that is completely wrong. the term implied is a condition, and breach of that condition allows for a recission of the contract (meaning a refund). the relevant statute is Sale of Goods Act 1979, Section 13 (subsections 1 and 2 (2 states that the term is a condition, 1 states that the condition is implied in the contract)). what the manager wrote is worth as much as the paper it is written on and he may be considered to have committed an offence - the Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements) Order 1976 make it an offence to use a sign that purports to restrict your statutory rights. It may not work in court (I doubt it would fall under the definitions given in the order), but worthwhile scaring him with it!

 

Your understanding is correct from a technical VP as well. If PCW were aware of the full spec of the PC when you purchased the card, including PSU specs, then if they said it's compatible and it is not, then that is not as described/ffp.

[dx100uk]

if this were my store, i would refund regardless.

AFIAK, there is no exclusion they can apply not to refund you.

 

its within 28 days, you dont want it.

the only caviot i know, is if they / you need to prove it still works.

 

dx100uk

[thejackel1980]

Thank you all for your wise words and guidance.

 

I've just returned from PC World and am happy to inform you all that I obtained a full refund.

 

It was a different team of staff so I had to start from the beginning, only this time I told them they'd assured me the card would work after seeing the full spec of my machine.

 

They - as usual - tried to fob me off with an exchange but I was adamant I wanted a full refund which - after talking with the 'tech' guys (does anyone working within PC World have the permission to make any decision without first talking to these people?!) - they decided I could have a refund (gyzmo - I quoted SOGA and told them it was a 'sale by description' so I was entitled to a refund).

 

I mentioned the 'Restrictions on Statements' but they said they were entitled to write what they liked on the receipts.

 

Anyway, I've got my money back and I shall never be shopping there again. Thank you all for your help and advice - it gave me confidence and knowledge needed to go in fighting and get the result I wanted!

 

Ta very much

[gyzmo]

Glad to hear it. Entitled to write what they like on receipts? Well they can write what they want, but if it purports to restricts your statutory rights then it means diddly-squat. I personally would have just laughed at the advisor.

 

Still, good result. Shows what standing up for yourself does!

[fred2009]

gyzmo-

advice for you in the future. you may wish to ask the OP what the exact wording himself and the store staff was before presuming there was a breach in sales by description.

 

if the consumer asked what slot does my pc have and the staff said AGP then this is not enough information to say there was a breach.

 

if the consumer asked is the power requirements and slot type going to be ok? and the staff said "yes, perfect no problems" then there is a breach.

 

try asking a question before presuming breaches.

 

note about receipts to all consumers.

a receipt is not legally required to return a faulty product. as long as you keep some form of proof of purchase such as a receipt number, or a day of purchase or atleast something the seller can use to check their wn records against.

 

if anyone ever gets a retailer to write something on their receipt. simply get a piece of paper. write down the day of purchase and the receipt number or product information and return again saying you lost your receipt. this will avoid arguments and stress. yes hand written statements are invalid legally as they limit consumers rights. but store staff are untrained in consumers rights so they are prepared to argue it if they see a written statement on a receipt. so just dont give them the receipt and they wont know any difference, thus avoiding an argument.

[electron99]

Congratulations on a good result.Indirectly PC World have done you a favour as you now know that your PSU is running at capacity and should be upgraded as soon as possible.As dx100uk says it could cause you problems.I have just sorted out a computer which the owner said had a failed hard disc.It turned out that the 12 volt rail on the PSU was on its last legs,stopping the drive turning, and the computer booting up.When you replace the PSU get a well known make such as Antec,Tagan or Ennermax.