what if the CCa is present and correct ?

[Waveydave]

HI - A few questions or you,

 

Im thinking of sending CCA requests off to all the DCa's i deal with.

 

most of them have been fair in the past and set up minimum repayments though a few are beeing reet pains and wont allow me to pay any amount that is affordable.

 

What do you think the outcome would be if i request a CCA of a DCa that i have a payment plan in place with and it all comes back within the 42 days as present and correct? do you think it would make them harder to deal with in the future etc ?

 

Im not overly worried a bout claiming any money back from companies if they cannot provide the CCa but what happens if after the set amount of time they still have not sent the paperwork ? Can i just ignore from that point on and effectively write the debt off ?

 

and finally - a couple of the debts have CCj's on them - is it worth chasing a CCa with these companies or could i make more trouble for myself ?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

WD

[pt2537]

Hi Waveydave

 

Ok, what we have here is a hypothetical scenario so its difficult to answer totally accurately

 

You are legally entitled to ask for a copy of a credit agreement which is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 at any time during the time the account is running

 

therefore, if you apply for your copy of the credit agreement, the lender or DCA depending on who is dealing with the account should supply you the documentation on demand providing the fee for the request is paid and the request is in writing

 

if they fail to comply after the required time frame has expired they are in default and not entitled to enforce the agreement while the default continues, a note of caution though, if 5 months down the line they find the agreement they can apply to the court to have the agreement enforced

 

 

if they supply a unenforceable agreement, then you can use this to your advantage to negotiate the payments and settlement figure.

 

you could concieveably use this to stop all payments altogether although that is ultimately your decision

 

if you do decide to CCA them, what ever they supply ,it would be best to post it on here to allow us to scrutinise it and see if its enforceable and give you our opinions

 

CCJs are not my field of expertise im afraid, although i dont think the CCA request would work here, you need to apply to have them set aside and there are certain grounds that this can be done on my understanding

 

there are some people on here that know more about this. i will ask one to pop in and advise on the CCJ aspect

 

with regards to the CCA requests, IMHO, youve got nothing to lose so i would go for it with the Debts that are being awkward towards you

 

 

regards

 

paul

[Waveydave]

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated and its set me clearer on a few things.

 

if they fail to comply after the required time frame has expired they are in default and not entitled to enforce the agreement while the default continues, a note of caution though, if 5 months down the line they find the agreement they can apply to the court to have the agreement enforced

 

If they did supply the agreement after the time frame has expired what is meant by having to go to court to have the agreement enforced ?

Would this just be the court saying " yep, you can chase for that now"; or is it more likely that the DCA would get a ccj or some other kind of legal tie down?

Would the process have to start from the begining again with the DCA - ie they contact you with letters saying you owe us X please pay; or would they be able to start further down the process with other tactics ?

 

Effectively should i view this as a payent holiday rather than a write off, of the debt ?

[pt2537]

Hi,

 

Very Very Very Difficult to give a definitive answer

 

the best thing to do is ask for the agreement first, wait and see what they send. they will more than likely send something purporting to be the agreement . if they dont send anything they commit a criminal offence after the 12 working days plus the one calendar month expires

 

viewing as a payment holiday is probably the better way to look at this

 

if they do fail to supply something in the time, hit them with a reduced full and final settlement offer or a reduced payment offer, that would be the best option IMHO . however, if they dont have the agreement now, i would doubt they will find it later as they would look rather silly in front of a judge asking for him to enforce it

 

regards

paul

[Waveydave]

Cheers, Paul.

 

Reet, a day of letter writing for me and ill keep you all informed.

 

thanks again.

 

Dave

[pt2537]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

 

no problems,

 

use letter N from the link above.

 

also, dont sign the letter print you name or use a digital signature such as http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/110578-digital-signature-guide.html

 

any problems you know where we are

 

regards

paul

[Waveydave]

Thanks again

 

whats with the signature though ?

I will follow the advice but just wondering why lol, I was always under the impression that you had to sign to show it was from you - where as a digitally reproduced signature could be done by anyone

[pt2537]

sorry WD

 

I should have explained my reasons,

 

It has been alleged that some unscrupulous DCAs have been known to take a signature off of a letter and scan it onto a blank credit agreement and then try and pass it off as valid

 

by not giving them your signature you are protecting yourself from this

 

 

also there is nothing in law which says you must sign with your signature

 

regards

paul

[Waveydave]

and another THANKS

 

as i readmore through the forums im getting more questions so apologies in advance.

 

Just read the A short Warning thread and it got me thinking as to what DCA's should have a CCA so i thought id stick up a list and see if there are any that anyone thinks should not be persued.

 

• Aktiv Kapital on behalf of Time retail Store card from years ago - approx £300 to pay
  
• Bryan carter on behalf of Shop Direct / Kays - approx £90 to pay
  
• Bryan carter on behalf of carphone warehouse - approx £65 to pay
  
• Howerd Cohen and Co on behalf of CL Finance / Debenhams card - Paying 2 of these off - both around £900 owed and both have CCj's
  
• Scottcall on behalf of Littlewoods - approx £90 to pay
  
• Lowel Finance on behalf of Creation / Millets store card from years ago - approx £350 to pay
  
• Bryan Carter on behalf of Cap one CC - approx £400 to pay
  
• Scotcall on behalf of NatWest ( CC or loan - not sure) - approx £1900 to pay
  
• Wescot on behalf of NatWest approx £2100 - this one worries me as i believe that this may also being collected by scotcall above ! - No repayment aranged as of yet
  
• First Credit on behalf Lloyds tsb CC - £2400 - No repayment arranged as of yet

so any opinions on these ?

[Waveydave]

oh and as an aside every one except Wescot for Natwest and First Credit have had small payment plans in place for upto 14 months ( most paying a nominal £5 / £10 )

[42man]

If it was me I would send the CCA request to all....!! Are you likely to have any excess charges also ??

[Waveydave]

If it was me I would send the CCA request to all....!! Are you likely to have any excess charges also ??

 

I would imagine that the vast majority of what is owed is made up by charges - the debanhams cards for example had a £500 limit on them so the rest must be charges and fees

 

One more question whilst i think about it ;

 

What form of payment is better to send ? The way i see it is if i send a cheque they may not cash it, may sit on it etc but if i send a postal order with the companies name on it will that be deemed as money recieved once they have signed for the letter ( as its allready payed for up front and only they can cash it)?

[42man]

Always send a POSTAL ORDER (keep the receipt for it) Never send cheques or put hand written signatures on any letters you send to them as it has been alleged that some will cut and paste your signature on to an agreement.

[42man]

If you wanted to claim back the charges you would either have to look at your statements from the last 6 years or if you don't have those send a SAR request for ALL your information...the maximum they can charge is £10 for your SAR.

[Waveydave]

Always send a POSTAL ORDER (keep the receipt for it) Never send cheques or put hand written signatures on any letters you send to them as it has been alleged that some will cut and paste your signature on to an agreement.

 

Cheers for confirming that.

 

reagrding them cutting and pasting your signature - would it be an idea to sign everything by pen BUT make sure that your signature is completely different to the one you would normally use (that is on driving licenses / passports etc) - that way if a CCA did come back it would be very obvious if it had been copied

[42man]

Yes...definately use an unusual signature, but don't sign it Mickey Mouse or George Bush:D

[Waveydave]

Yes...definately use an unusual signature, but don't sign it Mickey Mouse or George Bush:D

 

LOL

[clutchingatstraws]

Just a tip dave

 

Keep everything you recieve in a folder or file in date order including all postal proofs.

 

Tell them in the initial letters that you will only deal with financial matters in writing. Also request a copy of their internal complaints procedure,

 

Don't talk to them on the phone. Just refuse to answer security questions make a note of who date time etc.

 

Make an official complaint using their complaints procedure if they continue to phone.

 

All except the phones appear to be covered by the CCA1974

 

 

Get back and start a thread for each if you need advice

[Waveydave]

Just a tip dave

 

Keep everything you recieve in a folder or file in date order including all postal proofs.

 

Tell them in the initial letters that you will only deal with financial matters in writing. Also request a copy of their internal complaints procedure,

 

Don't talk to them on the phone. Just refuse to answer security questions make a note of who date time etc.

 

Make an official complaint using their complaints procedure if they continue to phone.

 

All except the phones appear to be covered by the CCA1974

 

 

Get back and start a thread for each if you need advice

 

Nice one cheers - Ill get the letters sent this afternoon and then as i hear from them ill open an individual thread for each oone to keep things simple.

 

Again, THANKS everyone who has replied

[Waveydave]

Just one last question ( i promise lol)

 

On letter N in the templates should i change all the "WE" to "I" as its only me and not us that are asking ?

 

Can i also include on the same letter a request for copies of statement of acounts and deed of assignment - and if i ask for those will it complicate matters ( am i allowed them even ?) - Would i be better asking for those seperatly if needed ?

[maggieboo]

Yes...definately use an unusual signature, but don't sign it Mickey Mouse or George Bush:D

 

but I'm sure that's who signs my letters from lowells! lol

[shane5408]

Just one last question ( i promise lol)

 

On letter N in the templates should i change all the "WE" to "I" as its only me and not us that are asking ?

 

Can i also include on the same letter a request for copies of statement of acounts and deed of assignment - and if i ask for those will it complicate matters ( am i allowed them even ?) - Would i be better asking for those seperatly if needed ?

 

Hi,

 

A Deed of Assignment is only applicable if the account has been sold in entirety to the DCA, ie a full Legal absolute assignment as opposed to an equitable assignment. I also don't think the DCA is under any obligation to provide this to you, if memory serves correct they need only produce it in court. You should of received a notice of assignment explaining who the debt has been assigned to.

 

But if you are sending a SAR then they have to provide all this info anyway

 

regards,

shane

[pt2537]

Thanks Shane for answering this one,

 

been meaning to get back to this but ive been snowed under

 

cheers

 

regards

paul

[Waveydave]

Thanks everyone for answering and helping out.

 

Well all letters are printed out and in envelopes waiting for a the postal orders to be purchased tommorrow and then sent on their merry way.

 

So if im right in thinking - if i send them tomorrow the cut off date of 12 + 2 days is the 30th November.

 

after tha date if i have NOT recieved the CCA i can cease payment to the dca legally and with no rights of reply by them ?

 

and then if i still have no CCA after a further 30 days ( making it the 30th december - should i allow longer for xmas bank holidays ?) I can shoot off complaints to trading standards etc

 

Do i have the correct time line and procedure ?

 

What happens if they send a CCA after the 12+ 2 days but before th 30 days is up ?

 

The ONLY slight worry i have now is regardiing the two debts for CL Finance which are held by Howard Cohen and Co solicitors - These both have CCj's on them and im still unsure of the implications of asking for CCa's with these.

[42man]

Dave.....i'm not sure of the implications on the CCJ's either (hopefully somebody will come along and give more information) I would keep paying these whatever. As for the others (yes you have the time lines correct 12 WORKING DAYS + 2 days grace - then one calendar month) - PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU COMPLAIN TO TS/FOS/OFT IF ANY OF THEM DO NOT COMPLY...!!