final bill more than quote.

[jowalshy]

Hi there, I was wondering if anyone can help me. My brother's friend took his car to be repaired. The original quote was for approx £700.00, but he said that he would accept between £400 and £450 in cash (all done verbally). When the final bill was given to him it was for £860.00!! . As you can imagine my friend was a bit shocked. The garage man is now saying that he never quoted a figure at all and is now keeping the car until the bill is paid. Two days later he issued an amended bill for £910.00 for further work carried out on the car (which my friend was not advised of) and he again stated that he will keep the car in storage until the bill is paid at a cost of £15.00 per day. My friend offered to pay £600.00, but he has declined it and issued another invoice for £300 to cover admin costs. .

 

Help pleeeeease.

[Conniff]

Hi jowalshy

 

Need some more details.

 

What was the work for?

Does the invoice include vat?

Do you have a fully itemised bill?

 

They can, of course, exercise their right of 'lien' which means they can keep the car until the bill is paid, but from what you have said so far it looks a bit like they are taking the urine.

[jowalshy]

All the car needed was an MOT. It failed at first and then put in for a retest and then passed. the itemised bill was for:-

 

2 x wiper blades

5 x bulbs

1 x timing belt

6 x brake pipe nuts

11 x brake pipe Pere FT (what ever these are)

1 x brake pipe clips

2 x pipe joiners

1 x used seat belt stalk

4 x brake fluid

 

MOT

MOT retest

Labour 38 hours @ £18 per hour.

 

also the chap fitted brake pads of which were supplied by my friend and the garage charged £81 to fit them!!!!!

 

From what I can gather from the invoice it looks like:-

 

Total charges for parts:- £79.99

MOT:- £45.00

MOT retest:- £23.40

Brake pads fitting:-£80.97

Labour:- 38 hrs @ £18 ph:- £684.00

 

total invoice:- £913.36

 

On top of that £300.00 for administration costs

 

The bill to date is now over £1200.00!!!!! with the garage chap adding on more storage costs for holding the car and more admin costs.

[Conniff]

You are being ripped off here Jo, I need an aswer to the following

 

Car make, model and year ??

 

After the MoT, did you remove the car from the garage ??

If yes, how long before you returned it for a retest and did you do any repair work ??

 

Is there VAT added to the bill and if so is there a VAT registration number ??

 

If there is vat added, are all the items totaled before vat is added ??

 

Did you ask for a cambelt change (Not part of any mot) ??

 

11 x brake pipe Pere FT - I think that should be brake pipe per foot x 11

 

What did the car fail it's mot on (list them)

 

Are you male or female ??

 

 

I think that the only chance of recourse will be to pay and then claim back.

But lets see if we can get something to trip them up with first.

[freakyleaky]

Just a thought but is this not a case for trading standards? They seem to be overcharging for the repairs for sure. 38 hours labour? That is almost 5 days soilid work on those repairs! My dog could have done the repairs in that time and he's not even a trained mechanic!

 

I think the guy is expecting an expensive christmas! I will have a look around Jo and see what i can come up with that might help! Conniff is on the case though so your in good hands!

[freakyleaky]

This is what Trading Standards say!

 

The cost of the repair is higher than I expected

If you are in dispute and refuse to pay the price the garage is charging, the garage is entitled to exercise a lien over the car; this is a legal right to hold disputed goods until payment is made. In these circumstances, the only way you can recover possession of the car is to 'pay under protest' and to pursue your claim for reimbursement via a trade association, if the garage is a member of one, or in Court.

 

 

So it might be worth paying the bill and taking the garage to court later!

[freakyleaky]

Also work carried out without permission!

 

Repairs have been carried out without authorisation

This can be a contentious matter, especially with verbal contracts, as it can be very difficult to 'prove' that the garage had carried out the work without your authority. It will generally come down to your word against the word of the garage. If the garage has carried out unauthorised work, you could ask the garage to 'undo' it and put the vehicle back to its original condition. This course of action, however, can create problems, especially if it would make the car unroadworthy. The garage may also refuse to undo the work or release the car without payment. If improvements have been made, the garage is entitled to exercise a lien over the car. This is a legal right to hold disputed goods until payment is made. In these circumstances, the only way you can recover possession of the car is to 'pay under protest' and to pursue your claim for reimbursement. The garage may be a member of a trade association with a conciliation, mediation or arbitration service which can help sort out your complaint. You may have to pay for using an arbitration service, but conciliation is usually free. Discuss the service offered with the trade association before committing yourself. You could also, as a last resort, take action in the County Court.

[jowalshy]

You are being ripped off here Jow, I need an aswer to the following

 

Car make, model and year ??

 

After the MoT, did you remove the car from the garage ??

If yes, how long before you returned it for a retest and did you do any repair work ??

 

Is there VAT added to the bill and if so is there a VAT registration number ??

 

If there is vat added, are all the items totaled before vat is added ??

 

Did you ask for a cambelt change (Not part of any mot) ??

 

11 x brake pipe Pere FT - I think that should be brake pipe per foot x 11

 

What did the car fail it's mot on (list them)

 

Are you male or female ??

 

 

I think that the only chance of recourse will be to pay and then claim back.

But lets see if we can get something to trip them up with first.

 

Hi Connif. Car is actually a V reg mazda van. the van was not removed from the garage after the retest. But from the invoice the failed MOT was done around mid September and then the retest mid October. the garage man has had the car from the beginning and has never returned it. the garage is not VAT registered so no VAT added at all. It is purely labour and parts. I have no idea about the timing belt. (as this is a friends van). I have no idea as to what the vehicle failed its MOT on. Also regarding 11 feet of brake pipe, isn't this a bit excessive???. I am a female, but my friend is a male. I have drafted up a letter (with the help of Pete -Castlebest) requesting the original MOT failing document.

 

here is the letter:-

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxxxxxxxx,

 

Car Reg: xxxxxxx

 

Please supply me with the original VT30 (failure to provide an MOT certificate), showing the faults needed to be attended to before a valid Mot certificate could be supplied.

As you are aware, from my letter dated 19th October, 2007 a contract was formed between me and you to repair the above vehicle in order to obtain an MOT. This was agreed verbally between yourself and my wife to be in the region of £400 to £450 with an agreed a maximum figure of £500.00. This contract was a legal binding agreement as there was an offer and acceptance of an agreed price for the service you provided.

You have now provided an invoice, dated 6th October 2007, for works carried out, to the value of £865.48 and I am concerned with the works necessary/breakdown you provided on your invoice as it appears you have spent in total 36 hours (one week) attending to the vehicle in order to supply and fit 2 wiper blades, 5 bulbs, 1 timing belt, 6 brake pipe nuts, 11 feet of brake pipe, 1 brake pipe clip, 2 pipe joiners and one set of front brake pads.

 

You failed to notify me that any further works were necessary above and beyond that agreed with my wife therefore can you please provide me with a detailed breakdown of how the 36 hours you spent on the vehicle relates to the above items you supplied and fitted.

 

In addition you have now issued me with an amended invoice for a further 2 hours labour in order to supply and fit 1 used seat belt stalk and brake fluid. This amended invoice details work carried out by yourself which again you failed to notify me of and therefore had no authorisation to carry out.

 

On 27th October 2007, you issued an invoice to cover administration costs to the amount of a further £300.00. Please could you demonstrate to me by supplying me with a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my non payment.

 

I wish to advise you thatunder the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, schedule 2 (1) includes to define an example of an unfair clause as –

"(e) Requiring any consumer who fails to fulfill his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation;"

In your letter dated 27th October 2007, you quoted that you were well within your rights under the Sale of Goods and Services Act 1982 to retain the vehicle in lieu of payment. Please note that it also states in the Act:-

Part II section 14:- Implied term about time for performance.

(1) Where, under contract for the supply of a service by a supplier acting in the course of business, the time for the service to be carried out is not fixed by the contract, left to be fixed in a manner agreed by the contract or determined by the course of dealing between the parties, there is an implied term that the supplier will carry out the service within a reasonable time.

Section 15:- Implied term about consideration.

(1) Where, under a contract for the supply of a service, the consideration for the service is not determined by the contract, left to be determined in a manner agreed by the contract or determined by the course of dealing between the parties, there is an implied term that the party contracting with the supplier will pay a reasonable charge.

 

Not withstanding the price we originaly agreed to obtain an MOT for this vehicle, once you have supplied to me the original VT30 and the details of how your invoices are built up I will submit these to the Royal Automobile Club and the Automobile Association in order to ascertain the time you have alleged to have taken in order to repair the vehicle in order to pass its MOT is fair and reasonable.

 

Please note that any further action taken by yourself to which I find threatening or menacing to myself or my family will be reported straight away to the police.

 

 

Please supply the above information within the next seven days from the date of this letter to allow us to reach a speedy and amicable settlement in this matter.

 

Yours sincerely.

[Conniff]

If you visit the VOSA site and enter the reg number and the Document Ref No from the V5C you will see what it failed on.

 

Introduction

 

You can also check with VOSA that the station has a valid licence to do MoTs.

[Conniff]

I have just pm'd you Jo.

[jowalshy]

thanks Conniff for the info. I am just trying to get hold of my friend to get the V5C number and then I will check what the van failed on.

 

P.S Hi Freaky, thanks for the posts above .

[Conniff]

Ask him if he authorised the cam belt change while your at it.

[jowalshy]

My friend didn;t know that the cam belt needed doing at all let alone authorise the replacement of it. The garage man basically was instructed to get the van an MOT. He told my friend, after the work was carried out, that the bill would be between £400 and £450. My friend has offered £500.00, then £600.00 and then £700.00 to settle this bill to no avail.

[freakyleaky]

Hi Jo! I told you Conniff would look after you!

Looks like Pete has worked his magic as well with that letter!

 

I am following this with interest! I had a similar situation a few years back. The guy quoted me £200 for repairs but when i went to pick the van up he wanted £350. I asked if i could have a week to find the difference and he said no problem but I would have to leave the van!

 

I found (borrowed) the extra money that day as I desperately needed it for work. Times were hard and I didn't know of cag at the time so he got off lightly!

[Conniff]

My friend didn;t know that the cam belt needed doing at all let alone authorise the replacement of it. The garage man basically was instructed to get the van an MOT. He told my friend, after the work was carried out, that the bill would be between £400 and £450. My friend has offered £500.00, then £600.00 and then £700.00 to settle this bill to no avail.

 

Ok, so now we need to see exactly what it failed on.

 

The cambelt has nothing to do with the Mot. As there is no indication in the van that it's cambelt change time, I would be interested to know what made him decide off his own bat to change it - if indeed he has changed it.

[Conniff]

In your letter -

Please supply me with the original VT30 (failure to provide an MOT certificate),

 

That should read "Refusal of an MOT Certificate"

[Zamzara]

In addition to the above advice, they cannot charge for storage unless there is an express contractual agreement to pay it, and even then it could be challenged as an unfair term. Same for 'administration', whatever that is for.

[jowalshy]

The chap is charging £25 per letter!!! Sound familiar to any bank charges claimants??????

 

I haven't heard from my friend today to see if he managed to see what the van failed on yet. Hopefully I will chat to him tomorrow and find out.

[Conniff]

Keep trying with your friend, don't let this fester and get out of hand.

You know that you can go and examine the van now to ensure that work charged has in fact been carried out.

You can also retreave personal effects from the van.

 

Keep it going Jow and let us know what it says on Vosa.

[jowalshy]

Don't worry conniff, I am not going to let this one get out of hand.

 

thanks for all of the help so far, you have been brilliant.

 

Jo

[tiaposy]

I cannot believe they are charging 38 hours for the work!! There is no way in hell that it took 38hrs to do that!!

[MATTYFEZ]

Theres maybe a days work there, certainly not 38hrs.

 

AS above, he dosent even need to go near the cam belt for the MOT.

 

It sounds as if this guy is a total theif, has your friend contacted citizens advice or trading standards yet, he needs to seek advice ASAP to recover the car.

[MATTYFEZ]

Is the garage even ligitamate and a registered test station?

 

you should also contact VOSA, the govenment MOT regulator and make a complaint about the garage ASAP

 

Are you satisfied with your MOT? : Directgov - Motoring

[Conniff]

Any update yet Jo ??

[jowalshy]

Is the garage even ligitamate and a registered test station?

 

you should also contact VOSA, the govenment MOT regulator and make a complaint about the garage ASAP

 

Are you satisfied with your MOT? : Directgov - Motoring

 

The mechanic took the van to a MOT station to get it MOT'd.

 

The update so far:-

 

Got a reply to the letter they sent. Chap will not give original VT30 form to them, but said that he was enclosing a copy of it (unfortunately he neglected to enclose it with his letter). He admits that he did quote between £400 and £450, but then went on to say that my friend may have misunderstood him when he said those figures (errrrr, what was there to misunderstand). Also he admits to knowing that my friend did not want to pay more than £500.00, (oh dear, I think that he may have shot himself in the foot there). He will not give a further breakdown as to what time he spent on each thing he did to the van and that the invoice supplied should be enough detail. As for the £300.00 admin costs, he states that this is a percentage of time taken to research how he stands on this matter, travelling around to find a suitable storage facility (storgae facility is just down the road from him) in which to store the van until the dispute is settled, phone calls etc....(I am not entirely satisfied with that response). He then finished the letter to say that he has managed to obtain a form N1 from the court and is now going to proceed with a claim.