CCJ Query

[Penfold92]

Hi,

 

Can anyone tell me the law with regards CCJ's...

 

A friend of mine had a CCJ back in Jan 2006. He has been paying a token payment since then towards this via a DMA. He has now decided that he may be able to raise the money to pay this off now and wanted to ask them for an offer.

 

He was shocked when they wrote back to give him a balance and they had added further £2K interest since the CCJ was granted...Can creditors do this? I thought a CCj meant judgement and therefore nothing more could be added?

 

Please advice,

 

Thanks

[sequenci]

What was the original debt for?

Does your friend have the original claimform still? If so did the claimant request post-judgment interest?

[Penfold92]

Hi Sequenci,

 

Do not think so, he has the original claim form that says by the way it was Jan 2006:

 

Amount Claimed: 5519

Court fee: 240

Sols:0

Total: 5759

 

His latest repayment shows £8K and they will accept £6K lol I bet they would...

 

Penfold

 

How can he find this out then about post judgment interest. After all they have been accepting £45 per month and at the rate they are adding interst he would NEVER pay this debt off...

[sequenci]

What is the debt for?

[paulwlton]

Hi Sequenci,

 

Do not think so, he has the original claim form that says by the way it was Jan 2006:

 

Amount Claimed: 5519

Court fee: 240

Sols:0

Total: 5759

 

His latest repayment shows £8K and they will accept £6K lol I bet they would...

 

Penfold

 

How can he find this out then about post judgment interest. After all they have been accepting £45 per month and at the rate they are adding interst he would NEVER pay this debt off...

 

Your friend will need to make a CCA request to find out if there's interest after judgment clause in the original agreement.

 

 

Paul

[Penfold92]

Hi,

 

No idea what the CCJ was for, but I would assume CC not overdraft or anything like that.

 

With regards the CCA, I do not see the point of him doing this as judgement was given therefore he cannot use the lack of an agreement against them. I guess he could write to the court to ask them for the original claim form and whether post judgement interest was granted?

 

Thanks,

[paulwlton]

Hi,

 

No idea what the CCJ was for, but I would assume CC not overdraft or anything like that.

 

With regards the CCA, I do not see the point of him doing this as judgement was given therefore he cannot use the lack of an agreement against them. I guess he could write to the court to ask them for the original claim form and whether post judgement interest was granted?

 

Thanks,

 

You need to CCA them. If the clause was in the original agreement they would have asked for a continuance of interest in the court claim form.

 

Paul

[sequenci]

How do we know the judgment is against a regulated agreement? A CCA request would only be of use if the judgment debt WAS regulated.

 

For Regulated agreements, statutory interest after judgment cannot be charged. Contractual interest can be charged but should not be added to the judgment debt, it should be claimed for seperately. This is what leads me to believe that either

 

A) The Debt is NOT regulated

 

B) It is regulated and the claimants are chancers.

[paulwlton]

How do we know the judgment is against a regulated agreement? A CCA request would only be of use if the judgment debt WAS regulated.

 

For Regulated agreements, statutory interest after judgment cannot be charged. Contractual interest can be charged but should not be added to the judgment debt, it should be claimed for seperately. This is what leads me to believe that either

 

A) The Debt is NOT regulated

 

B) It is regulated and the claimants are chancers.

 

Yes it does seem strange that interest has been applied to the judgment.

[Penfold92]

OK guys,

 

the claimants are Asset Link Capital and they sound and look definately like chancers!

 

I have just picked up a statement they have just sent him and basically they have never stopped chargin him interst since the judgement, nor charges and he small token payments are not denting anything. I have asked him to call the court directly and clarify the post judgement interst part, but even if this was granted surely the courts do not allow a creditor to complete SCREW someone, or do they?

 

thanks,

[sequenci]

You might want to remind them of The County Court (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991. Section 3(a)

 

(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment—

(a)

is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

What you might need to check however is that if there is an interest after judgment clause in the contract + claim. This *should* be calculated in a second account and not added to the original judgment debt. I know that company has bought loads of old first national debts with the interest after judgment clause written in contractually.

[Penfold92]

Ok,

 

I found out from him that it was a First National loan that was sold (we assume) to Asset Link Capital. He has spokent to the court and as far as they can see no post judgement interest was granted. So your paragraph above should apply right?

 

Thanks,

 

Penfold

[sequenci]

Has he a copy of the claimform?

 

The 1st National agreement is likely to have an interest after judgment clause. I need to do a little bit of homework as to how this interest should be claimed. I was under the impression that the claimant would have to bring seperate action for this and not include it within the original judgment debt.

[Penfold92]

Has he a copy of the claimform?

 

The 1st National agreement is likely to have an interest after judgment clause. I need to do a little bit of homework as to how this interest should be claimed. I was under the impression that the claimant would have to bring seperate action for this and not include it within the original judgment debt.

 

 

But 1st Natioanl did not bring the claim about from what I can see they transfered it to them in 2001 and he made a few years worth of payments before he got into trouble and they took him to court and got judgement.

 

I think the court will tell us more, he found out that from Northampton it went to Cardiff and now to Luton as thay is where he lives too...

 

Thanks,

 

PEnfold

[sequenci]

Asset Link would have bought the rights & the duties of the agreement/debt I imagine. If we can get a bit more info from your friend we can progress, in the meantime please take a read of:

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 18 Interest Charges On A Consumer Credit Judgment

[NitrousOxide]

They have to ask for post judgement interest don't they? Don't they have to request it in the particulars of claim?

[Penfold92]

Hi,

 

He should be calling the Court today so I guess we will find out soon enough as I have told him to ask them to send the particulars of claim as well. I cannot belive that an agreement (original one) can be allowed to say if you default or we get judgement we can keep adding interest ad infinitum...

 

Thanks,

 

Penfold

[sequenci]

The claimant does not have to request post-judgment interest in the particulars of claim. They would have to calculate the extra interest and record it in a separate “debt” to the judgment UNLESS the order was for an interlocutory judgment (which this isn’t as there is a finite amount being claimed). One thing to consider is that although the creditor has a legal right to claim interest after judgment (post House of Lords v First National decision) they shouldn’t be able to bring a separate court action as effectively it is the same debt which has already been to court. AFAIK there has never been action for an interest post judgment judgment yet!

 

My advice would be to advice your friend to apply for a time order to reduce/stop the interest being claimed.

[Penfold92]

Hi,

 

He rang me to say the court said they agreed interst to that date no mention or agreement to keep adding interest. Does that help?

 

Penfold

[sequenci]

Hi,

 

He rang me to say the court said they agreed interst to that date no mention or agreement to keep adding interest. Does that help?

 

Penfold

 

Still investigating this!

[paulwlton]

May be of interest

 

 

Debt Collection guidance for consumer credit licence holders and applicants

[Penfold92]

Ok here are the two bits from the Court now:

 

7th March 2006

 

Final Charging Order

 

On 7th March 2006, District Judge Eynon sitting at Luton County Court, address

Heard representative for the claimant

 

and the court orders that

1 The charge created by the order made on the 6th December 2005 shall continue

2 The interest of the defendant in the asset described in the schedule below stand charged with the payment of the sum of £5,519.57 the amount now owing under a judgement or order given on 17 November 2005 together with any further interest becoming due and £204 the costs of the application

3 The costs are to be added to the judgment debt

 

------------------------------------------------------------

 

General Form of Judgement or Order

 

 

Before District Judge Eynon sitting at Luton County Court, Address

 

Unpon hearing representative fo rthe claimant

 

It is ordered that

 

1 Charging order Absolute, with costs £204

2 New Order at £45 per month on the basis that the offer of £11.39 per month will not discharge interest upon their debt at 8% per annum which is the equivalent of £36.80 per month

 

Dated 7 march 2006

 

 

So it appears the court did allow further interest even if this was not on the N1 form or POC's. Surely there must be a way to appeal this retrospectially?

 

Please advise guys as my firend is going to be up the creek by the looks of this...

 

Thanks,

 

Penfold

[Penfold92]

Hi guys,

 

So who can my friend appeal to? The court directly or the OFT?

 

Thanks,

 

Penfold

[sequenci]

Is the 8% being claimed contractual or statutory? Any ideas?

 

I think the judge may have really messed up.

[paulwlton]

Is the 8% being claimed contractual or statutory? Any ideas?

 

I think the judge may have really messed up.

 

I agree.