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AMEX & AIC & Newman


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Hi TS

As for the 'new evidence' it was basically the original of what they had filed in their evidence and stated that they 'could' produce the original at trial if required. They did anyway.

They quote a Termination notice was issued, on such a date in their witness statement - but neither 'they' nor 'me' have a copy of it. They state that due to the filing system employed by the Claimant then a copy is not available - strange when they were able to produce what was a 'copy' of the DN.

As for damages - well their actions have caused me immeasurable problems both in my personla life and businesses because of a damaged credit file - and the subsequent impact that this has had on my ability to get favourable credit, open bank accounts, switch mortgages etc.

BT

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Nice one :D

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Thanks also BRW - am having a Tea and watching the Match! With my feet up!

I have read that case - albeit very long and detailed - I'm not sure if I want to go that route - but basically need to understand now step by step what I need to do - I was definitely railroaded today to a certain extent and probably a little out of my depth as I'm sure a good lawyer would have nailed the agreement issue also - as I cant believe they can be allowed to get away with that.

Cheers

BT

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Hello BT!

 

If you can possibly afford it, it might be an idea to consider instructing a Barrister for round 2.

 

It may cost you around £1k but, if you win, as should now be the case, you can get that back, plus may stand a better chance of getting something else too.

 

You have them on the back foot now, the key is to deliver the killer blow in the next round. You now have the advantage, so do not hesitate to kick them hard while they are down...never forget they would jump at the opportunity to do it to you.

 

Enjoy the match!

 

Cheers,

BRW

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The thought had crossed my mind BRW. They will certainly be on the attack now - so i think it only wise to try and cover all bases. The cost is an issue - but I suppose I have to look on it as an investment. What I dont want is to lose any moral ground I have built up - however the judge did recommend taking advice as I certainly need to be prepared to defend any case law they try and throw at me (as they were suggesting)

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Amex play dirty Blue Thunder, you would be wise to take the advice of the DJ & BRW ;)

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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An interesting thread, especially the time-line within a DN. I'm currently dancing (figuratively) with Newman DCA & Amex too. A quick check of the 87(1) shows it dated 18th March 2009, giving me 14 days from that date to settle up or face the consequences etc., I received it on the 26th (my notes on the thing). Next was the 86(E) default sums letter dated April 2nd (I'm disputing a 16% fee charge as being excessive and disproportionate to any expense involved). Then I got a Notice Of Cancellation of my Amex account dated April 4th. which, amongst other things, told me that my account had been transferred to a DCA. I already knew as Newmans had rung me at 08.15 on the morning of the 4th (Saturday) about an hour before the post arrived with a letter from them (dated 3rd April) demanding the full amount IMMEDIATELY plus the collection fee. I'm just composing another letter to them now - oh joy!

As an item of interest, unless they've changed it yet, check any of the names on a Newman DCA letter on the public search area of the CSA site - they're not listed. A talk with one of the CSA admin people elicited that these are "names of convenience" but the holding company is listed and that they'll phone me back today, "Promise" (that was 2 weeks ago, I'm not holding my breath). Also, should you wish to make a complaint to the CSA about any of their members, it must be entered into a form that is only downloadable from their site (a pdf) and you must also have complained to the company in question first. Some trade body huh? Their own rules prohibit the use of pseudonyms etc. and the intimation is that a complaint submitted other than on their own forms will be ignored.

 

Must finish my letter before they set Copes on me, I'll be back soon.

 

jb

If I'd have known then what I know now I'd probably still have messed it up!

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Well done Blue Thunder, I'm raising a glass to you here as we speak (well ok a mug of tea:D)

You did brilliantly so give yourself a pat on the back.

About the barrister, I don't know whether this organisation would be any good to you, but I found them for a friend who needs representation in court and he's going to submit an application for pro bono assistance.

The Bar Pro Bono Unit: Free Legal Advice and Representation

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Hello Jargonbuster!

 

Welcome to CAG BTW.

 

It may be wise to start your own Thread, as then people can concentrate on your issues and helping you directly.

 

One quick comment, the CSA are just a club for the Debt Industry. There is no point at all writing to them, because they will never, ever side with you.

 

Contacting the CSA to complain about one of their members would be like writing to one of the Kray twins to tell him his twin brother is a crook.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Hello Jargonbuster!

 

Contacting the CSA to complain about one of their members would be like writing to one of the Kray twins to tell him his twin brother is a crook.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

haha I love that analogy.

 

S.

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Thanks BRW, I probably will post a new thread soon, it depends upon just how much I want to tie Newmans into knots first. Having just introduced them to the concept of fiduciary interest (I can almost hear the pages of their Penguin Pocket Dictionary of the Law being turned now :)), I feel that we're still in pre-match, growling at each other, mode.

 

jb

If I'd have known then what I know now I'd probably still have messed it up!

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Well done Blue Thunder, I'm raising a glass to you here as we speak (well ok a mug of tea:D)

You did brilliantly so give yourself a pat on the back.

About the barrister, I don't know whether this organisation would be any good to you, but I found them for a friend who needs representation in court and he's going to submit an application for pro bono assistance.

The Bar Pro Bono Unit: Free Legal Advice and Representation

 

 

Thanks for your help also Patma - I hope you enjoyed the Tea :D and will take a look at these guys!

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Take a look at the ProBono scheme but a word of caution - you may find that the aid is not available at short notice & you may need a barrister to act on this quite quickly so start saving the pennies.

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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  • 2 months later...

As an update - a revised Default Notice has now been issued, with the correct service date. Dated July 09. I am given the opportunity to remedy the breach by paying the original required minimum payment. No mention of any arrears and/or interest or costs - but the feeling is once the breach is remedied they will then go for arrears (missed payments since it first went into default) My newly retained barrister informs me that they CAN issue a new DN as the Agreement has NOT been terminated as it was previously terminated against a defective DN.

Overall the advice I have recieved doesnt sound great and I'm facing their costs!!!

 

This flies in the face of what I have previously read on here - so the question is - where do I go? Surely I'm not unlucky enough to have a barrister that knows less than the wizards on here - am I? He has been rather vague to say the least as to the course of action open to me and potential results.

 

Any ideas out there??

Thanks

BT

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Well, I'm not sure what you're asking as your Barrister should be managing this for you. It's unlikely that they specialise in Consumer Law - this should have been made clear when you employed them, though. Of course it's not for this forum to say what you should do with regards that situation, but for me, I've seen dodgy advice from Solicitors and Barristers in the past that flies in the face of what appears on CAG. The decision over who you listen to, though, has to be yours and yours alone. It might be worth seeking a second opinion, if you can find a specialist.

 

IMHO, they can't terminate an agreement twice. The wording of the CCA demonstrates, in intelligible plain language, that a termination is final and cannot be simply "undone". Of course you'll need to convince a Judge, but as the CCA was designed to protect the Consumer against the Creditor, it's unlikely that the wording would be interpreted in the Creditors favour. Unlikely, but not impossible. Of course, you may need to apply initial Judgment if it doesn't go in your favour, but that would increase your exposure to costs if that doesn't go your way again.

 

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Thanks for the response Chris.

 

Basically I am confused with the Barristers advice- so i was just trying to gain some clearer info off here.

 

You're right - I shouldnt be asking I suppose and I will have to rely on the experts.

No worries.

 

BT

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Hello BT!

 

That Barrister has rolled over and given up before he even starts the battle, he sounds like the last person you need anywhere near you in Court next time around.

 

Unfortunately, there are what appear to be Trolls highly active on CAG at the moment spouting out this same line.

 

This is the danger. If we express a weakness on CAG, and let Trolls capitalise on that, it becomes a self-licking lollipop.

 

Why am I not surprised to hear they have elected to issue a 2nd Default Notice on an already Terminated Agreement.

 

I think you do need to dump that Barrister, and try and get one who is happy to take them on. I suspect if you can find a good one, they will jump at the opportunity of handling this.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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Hi Bt

I have a very similar case at present.

I second BRW.

 

My newly retained barrister informs me that they CAN issue a new DN as the Agreement has NOT been terminated as it was previously terminated against a defective DN

 

Rubbish - with a capital R.

 

I am sure you have read this already, from the dodgy DN thread;

 

"... a person who signs a document, and parts with it so that it may come into other hands, has a responsibility, that of the normal man of prudence, to take care what he signs, which if neglected, prevents him from denying his liability under the document according to its tenor"

 

Immediately following this statement in the Judgement is -

 

"I would add that the onus of proof in this matter rests upon him, i.e., to prove that he acted carefully and not upon the third party to prove the contrary"

 

Lord Wilberforce - Saunders v Anglia Building Soc (sub nom Gallie v Lee) [1970] UKHL 5 (09 November 1970)

 

In simple terms, the creditor must prove that they followed protocol and the law. If they cannot do so, it does not fall to you to prove that they did not.

You simply must find the original TN.

 

I would be extremely careful when taking advice from professionals or freebie pro bono students, for one reason.

Who will be giving them court work in future?

Would you bite the hand that feeds you?

 

Wishing you all the best.

 

Cheers

 

Bill

Edited by Bill Shidding
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Hello BT!

 

You simply must find the original TN.
Agreed.

 

OK, given the time constraint, I'd read all of the Posts by Surfaceagentx20, especially the recent ones. Check his CAG ID and just look for the most recent Posts.

 

Read, and re-Read what he says.

 

Then arrange a meeting with your Barrister, and discuss.

 

If he is up for it, then use him. If he is not, I regret he won't be any use to you, and you will be better off alone.

 

Argue the x20 points, and do so with absolute force and conviction. There is nothing to counter that, despite the best efforts of certain Posters on CAG recently.

 

The main problem is going in there with a squeak and a whimper, because the opposition will be all over you like a rash if they think your knees are knocking together and making a loud noise.

 

We'll need to get this well prepared and all of the key issues clear in your head before you step in to Court next time.

 

I regret you must allow for the fact that you may get a duffer/biased Judge, because that is always entirely possible at County Court level. The Trolls know this only too well, which is why we see such sustained assaults on any strong arguments we have. The obvious Trolls are not the problem, it's the ones who pretend to be your friend that are the ones to worry about.

 

You may need to be ready to lose and then Appeal the decision. But, any Appeal will be much easier if you put in a good showing next appearance. Likewise, if the opposition detects that you are determined to Appeal should this go against you, that may well worry them, because they will not want this to go against them in the next Court up the Judicial food chain. That takes them into precedent territory, and they won't want to go there unless 100% sure of their case.

 

However, play to win. If your Barrister is not up for that, then dump him.

 

The key now is to do all we can to ensure you do not lose, but do so in such a way that shows you should not have lost if the matter needs to go to Appeal.

 

When are you next in Court?

 

Cheers,

BRW

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In simple terms, the creditor must prove that they followed protocol and the law. If they cannot do so, it does not fall to you to prove that they did not.

You simply must find the original TN.

 

Thanks for the input Bill.

 

What's a TN - Termination Notice???

 

Cheers

BT

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Hello BT!

 

What's a TN - Termination Notice???

 

Yes. Arsemex will usually send one out a few days after they think a Default Notice has expired.

 

It may be headed Cancellation Notice, or it may not even have a heading, but could be just a letter saying they have now cancelled your Account/Agreement.

 

You may not have appreciated what it was, so hunt for it ASAP, and turn your home upside down if you think you may have it.

 

Try to find that, and I'd send them a SAR Tomorrow just in case you can tease out a copy from some minion that they don't notice.

 

It'd be worth £10 plus Special Delivery, as it may get back to you in time.

 

Think of it as belt and braces. If it works, yippee, if not, the cost was worth the attempt.

 

Cheers,

BRW

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