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Cabot Test Case!

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Just some news about a Cabot Fan Club case which looks set to become a test case at the request of a District Judge.

 

The case is to be tried before a Judge(an His Honour) next month and the DJ who moved it from his local court says it is of national importance.

 

Cabot has been chasing for a credit card debt in their usual manner - i.e. harrassing letters using their various companies, no letter of assignment from either themselves or the OC, no copy of a properly executed agreement - it's an application form and some generic T&Cs (and it appeared months after they issues proceedings). They just went gung-ho for a CCJ and were looking at a charging order when they were stopped in their tracks by a vigorous defence

 

The account consisted of many penalty charges (and double rate of interest and some unclaimed ppi payments due for refund) and following a separate action the OC has refunded all penalty charges in full substantially reducing the outstanding balance yet Cabot is still attempting to pursue for the full amount plus random charges they have added without any agreement or even producing any statement of account.

 

The OC also failed to issue a default notice and sold it off without warning and whilst a negotiated settlement was attempting to be made. They have admitted in writing thet did not issue a default notice.

 

At one hearing Cabot said despite this substantial refund they would be pursuing for the full amount and the Judge said that is hardly very just is it?

 

There have been four hearings in regard to this case and at each one the Hodson rep (solicitor for Cabot) has attempted to scare by threatening Fast Track.

 

The Hodson's solicitors haven't exactly covered themselves in glory as from the first they were woefully underprepared and Judge ticked them off constantly. It was almost comical to see them trying to explain the web of companies they use and Judge raised his eyebrows and commented that things should be kept simple.

 

At the second they pushed so hard for Fast Track Judge got very annoyed again as he asked why and they replied because it was so complicated and wouldn't get a fair hearing in small claims. (It's not very complicated either they have a properly executed and enforecable agreement or they haven't). Judge then got very annoyed and said he was the Judge of the court and he would make sure it got a fair hearing whether it was Fast Track or Small Claims. Then he asked: "Or is this an attempt to frighten the Defendant?". He seems to have their measure whilst remaining fair.

 

By the third hearing he said it was to go Fast Track as he felt it was of national importance and was to be heard before Judge and warned Cabot they had better be very sure of their ground. He also ordered the OC to be brought back into the action which has happened.

 

That is it in a nutshell (although there is far more to report than this which will be after the case is dealt with) and so far there have just been two of us handling the Defence although heavy duty counsel has also been briefed.

 

Two other cases are being heard at the same time, this time against Cabot for non compliance under S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and against the OC for non compliance under S85. Both are in small claims although both Cabot and the OC seem to think they are Fast Track and costs will be available. Judge has ruled no costs in these cases.

 

A letter has also arrived from TS (a bit late in the day but welcome none the less) which is confirming they are attending the court that day. After months of complaining and getting nowhere we have managed to contact a really switched-on enforcement officer who sat down with us and went through all the papers and was appalled at the case.

 

He was also made aware of a number of similar ones and is instructing the home TS in each case to investigate.

 

Both Judges involved have a reputation for being consumer champions and the original DJ is known for his work in Social Justice issues. The "His Honour" is just one step down from a High Court Judge and again has an interest in consumer affairs and has been particularly critical of the banks.

 

DJ is aware of the work of CAG and referred to our fighting fund.

 

All in all it will be a lively day and may run into two days. Please ask away but can't say too much now as it's all going through due process but will post it up in full once the hearing is over.:cool:

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Brilliant!! Good Luck with this... it sounds very positive.


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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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It sounds as if you have a judge with a fair grasp of consumer law. He KNOWS Cabot are trying to bluff their way through the legal system, and it seems to me that he wants to make an example of them. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but it's certainly the impression I get.

 

So why are they carrying on in the face of so much going against them? There isn't a hope in hell of them winning, and not matter how much they try to dress everything up to obfuscate the issue, it really is a simple matter of law. The heart of the argument being the Consumer Credit Act 1974. And in the end, that's all that matters. They can bleat on all they want about there having been an account, entitled to enforce, etc, etc. But in the end, it's all window dressing. As Lizzy has shown before, it's as simple as, No CCA=No Win for Cabot.

 

The sad thing is, here, as in so many other cases, had Cabot not been greedy, and had been willing to negotiate, they could have saved themselves so much heartache. And money. How much has fighting the combined might of the Cabot Fan Club cost them? We'll never know. But I guess if they are feeling rather silly now, just wait until Rhia has finished with them. :D

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They really do seem to be attempting to cut their nose off to spite their face don't they? After paying peanuts for this and all the hassle and now paying for a duty solicitor to represent them at the hearings must be far more than it's worth. But they don't seem to be able to back down. In fact if these judges do find against them it will establish not, a precedent as I think that can only be the High Court, but a very powerful statement will have been made. Ah but as Shakespeare said "those whom the gods choose to destroy he first makes mad."

 

The continuing work put in behind the scenes with CFC and CAG and sympathetic lawyers and academics is beyond price. The consumer has become empowered and more of these cases will be coming in front of the courts. The Judge in this case is very sharp indeed. However I would not get complacent and we are prepared to fight every detail at this hearing.

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Speaking at the same conference, Clive Briault, managing director, retail markets at the FSA said if firms don’t embed ‘fairness’ in their cultures, they risk being left behind by increasingly empowered consumers. "There is a moral here for firms: act before you are engulfed by this rising tide," said Briault.

 

 

This is from Seahorses thread and a quote from the FAS's TCF (Treat the Customer Fairly) seminar. Someone sees the big picture at least.

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"Just some news about a Cabot Fan Club case"

 

 

Cabot Fan Club?

 

 

Who are they?? :D :D :D

 

Brilliant work Rhia


Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/73598-dealing-cabot-101-cabot.html

 

Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20492-legal-actions-explained-company.html

 

Payplan CCCS Advice:

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/128587-info-cccs-payplan-experiences.html?highlight=Payplan

 

How to use the Forum

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful

Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

 

PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps :)

 

PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! :D Thank you.

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Rhia Good Luck with this - it is good to see the Judge is getting the full picture of what this company have been up to.

 

YES the case has dragged on and Cabots still attempt to defend - but there is a clear indication that their days of bullying people are about to show up and will cause this company some misery in return for their nasty ways :D this is good news really - interesting times are ahead.


My CCA skeleton argument to use in court -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/115280-useful-information.html

 

Useful Letters (CCA request is letter N)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

CAG A-Z list of useful places in CAG -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/69359-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

Introduction to Consumer Litigation -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

CABOT THREADS -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131321-cabot-threads.html

 

ALWAYS SEEK A PROFESSIONAL OPINION FROM QUALIFIED ADVISORS - any advice offered is from my own experience and knowledge - I am NOT qualified.

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I hope you polish your steel toe caps before applying them liberally to the neither regions ;)


Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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Isn't that an old Chinese saying? May you live in interesting times?

 

Whoever said it, I pass it on to our mates in Kings Hill...

 

"May you live in interesting times!" :lol:

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I hope you polish your steel toe caps before applying them liberally to the neither regions Curleyben? ;)

 

I trust you mean nether regions - I think that might hurt a bit more :D


Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/73598-dealing-cabot-101-cabot.html

 

Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20492-legal-actions-explained-company.html

 

Payplan CCCS Advice:

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/128587-info-cccs-payplan-experiences.html?highlight=Payplan

 

How to use the Forum

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful

Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

 

PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps :)

 

PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! :D Thank you.

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Yeah that as well.

I add an extra I you add an E so alls faire ;)


Be VERY careful whose advice you listen too

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So I did ! :D


Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/73598-dealing-cabot-101-cabot.html

 

Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20492-legal-actions-explained-company.html

 

Payplan CCCS Advice:

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/128587-info-cccs-payplan-experiences.html?highlight=Payplan

 

How to use the Forum

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful

Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

 

PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps :)

 

PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! :D Thank you.

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Cabot have gone all quiet on me so i will be watching this with interest.

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What are the impliations of this case setting a precident for future action? I know that the County Court cannot set precidents, but would that apply in this case?

 

Not that I've got a vested interest, you understand... ;)


  • Barclays: WON!!! It took four months but was totally worth it!
  • Cabot: I'm still waiting for an enforcable agreement, more than a year after requesting it. Go on, Uncle Ken, take me to court if you dare. You know you want to!
  • Elephant.co.uk: VICTORY - they admitted there was no debt!
  • Ashbourne Management (gym membership): Finally got my default removed and out-of-court settlement; I'm not finished with them yet!

<--- If I've been helpful please remember the scales ;)

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I am not too sure myself and will speak to the court. The presiding Judge is one of only 40 in the country and is one step down from a High Court Judge so it is in a higher court. I would imagine he has the power to order it to an even higher court...which would then be very interesting.

The original DJ has grasped the implications of all of this very quickly but then as he deals with a lot of family cases he must see the implications of such activities (repossessions, family breakdown etc) all the time.

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Hi Rhia

 

when is the hearing due and in which court

 

Not doing an awful lot at the mo and if its close and I am free I'd love to see this!


omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

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Another question - sorry to keep bombarding you like this!

 

Is it being treated as a test case proper, similar to the bank charges case? In other words, could anybody facing action by Cabot ask for their case to be held pending the outcome of this one?


  • Barclays: WON!!! It took four months but was totally worth it!
  • Cabot: I'm still waiting for an enforcable agreement, more than a year after requesting it. Go on, Uncle Ken, take me to court if you dare. You know you want to!
  • Elephant.co.uk: VICTORY - they admitted there was no debt!
  • Ashbourne Management (gym membership): Finally got my default removed and out-of-court settlement; I'm not finished with them yet!

<--- If I've been helpful please remember the scales ;)

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I don't think so in that sense. It is just that original DJ wants it examining properly as he allowed it all to unravel and warned Hodson's various solicitors on a number of occasions that Cabot had better be very sure of their information.

There were a number of solid grounds to have this case struck out and the DJ said that would not be the best result for us. On a number of occasions he laid into Cabot and just allowed them to trip themselves up.

Hosdons/Cabot are pretty pathetic with their attempts to scare and intimidate before the hearings you would almost find yourself yawning when they transparently went on the lines well this is going Fast Track you know.

If they try this with you challenge them to bring it on!

Of course we also need to be sure of our ground too but have had so much behind the scenes help and support we know exactly what we're doing. The OC keeps shooting Cabot in the foot too which they will soon discover for themselves.

As to attending the court they are public places but I will check and PM with details if OK.

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Yes please, I'd be very interested in attending if possible. Thanks again for all this information and the work you're doing :)


  • Barclays: WON!!! It took four months but was totally worth it!
  • Cabot: I'm still waiting for an enforcable agreement, more than a year after requesting it. Go on, Uncle Ken, take me to court if you dare. You know you want to!
  • Elephant.co.uk: VICTORY - they admitted there was no debt!
  • Ashbourne Management (gym membership): Finally got my default removed and out-of-court settlement; I'm not finished with them yet!

<--- If I've been helpful please remember the scales ;)

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Thanks Ria,

 

yes, please PM


omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

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Courts are indeed public places and all hearings are open to all except family courts. Because many courts are actually very small it is often impractical to allow everyone in and its always a good idea to mention your presence to the judge beforehand via the usher. If the other side mount an objection to your presence then that must be heard in the court. You should make clear you are there to observe and not to take part - and that sadly includes not making faces at the other side!

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subscribing with interest.

 

It's about time someone in the legal system popped their head above the parapet and declared what is, and what is not acceptable from these people. also what can and cannot be used to enforce the whole debt collection process.

 

In the words of the once great Kevin Keegan "I'd love it.....I'd just love it if we beat you"

 

maybe not the best words, given the eventual outcome, but I'm sure you get the sentiment :D


Hope this helps

 

 

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Please note: i am not a qualified lawyer, any advice is offered in good faith and is based on my own and others experiences and a penchant for research and a desire to help others to empower themselves

 

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Excellent thread Rhia, good work and good luck!!

:grin:

 

Rob

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subscribing to this good luck !!!


PLEASE NOTE - I am not a legal expert, what is stated is my own opinion and from what I have learnt from this forum and my own experiences.

 

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