Private Parking Tickets - General discussion points

[Alianmid]

Thanks for this Bernie - I have just collected a £50 unwarranted charge from EuroCar Parks - Luckily before I fired off a fuming letter I read your advice which I will follow - Thank you again

I have posted on the subject under 'Euro Car Parks £70 charge' thread if you are interested in details for the record.

[PK1961]

Thanks Bernie, these are invaluable.

I have received a PCN from Parking Eye, after being 14 minutes after the allocated 2 hours in the ALDI car park in Upminster. Really annoying as this was a public car park previously with no limits. I was going to pay, but not now.

On thing that I have not seen in the threads is that they portray they have photographic evidence, does this affect anything or should I follow the letters you have above?

[ShortlyTdwarf]

Having photographic evidence of the parking offence they claim you have committed makes absolutely no difference. It does not show who the driver of the vehicle was on the date and time concerned, so it can only be used to prove that the contravention to their rules took place, not that you were the person driving at the time.

[voxlaic]

You might be interested in the following.

I have had notification from Avon & Somerset Police that they have appointed a police station to look into the matter and contact me, but as yet I have not been contacted.

If many victims also refer their situations to the police we could ensure something is done about this illegal activity.

 

 

071222 - Letter to UKPC in response to Parking notice which had no response

I act for the recipient of the above notice. Your charge is unlawful and unenforceable The pseudo official replication imparts intention to deceive and defraud, is threatening and has caused stress to my client.

Rather than also cause my client additional financial loss I advise you to make payment to my client of £65.00 to cover my charge to him for this letter.

If you ignore this payment or persevere

TAKE NOTICE THAT

● Any further contact or communication must be addressed to (the writer)

BE AWARE

● If this requirement is disregarded it could cause action that would probably rely on (The Administration of Justice Act 1970 & Protection From Harassment Act 1997 and misuse of DVLA records) to be implemented AND reports will be sent to the Police requesting them to implement action against you, the landowner and any other party invovled

AND THAT -

• further communication to me from your company WILL NOT be responded to UNLESS full clarification of the following matters have been presented -

  
  

• Precise details of your Company's registration at Companies House and a list of it's directors/owners

  
  

• For the land/premises upon which the incident occurred – Identification and full details of all the registered title holder(s) together with details and the terms of any tenancies granted

  
  

• Full details of the conditions laid down by the land owner or tenant in respect of restrictions or terms levied for vehicles parking on the land

  
  

• Full details of any contract authorising UKPC to act for and to levy charge or penalty on the referred to land/premises.

  
  

• Details of any signage or other means you purport informs car park users that there are terms and conditions under which they may park vehicles on the land

  
  

• Full explanatory detail of the alleged charge referred to in your notice

  
  

 

After further communications, the last being from a entity attempting to portray the impression of being a solicitor or debt collecting practice, I contacted the police

080208 - emailed via Police website – could not transmit bitmaps

 

 

Mr ********* (my client) visited the Aspects Leisure Park for the purpose of making trade with one (or more) of the traders that are located there. As a consequence and without any intention or purposeful endeavour on his part he is being illegally pestered and harassed by an entity that describes itself as United Kingdom Parking Control (UKPC) Ltd.

In order to gain planning permission (PK/2190/R3F granted 7/sept/04) for the development the owner(s) Aspects Leisure Park Newnham Avenue Bedford Bedfordshire MK41 9PP were obliged to provide and maintain car parking facilities for use by any vehicle user attracted by the facility. Furthermore in order to attract retail buyers and tenants for the premises they constructed AND in turn the potential customers for those retailers - they have chosen, or have contractual reasons -

Not to make any charge for such provision.

 

Criminal law does not apply because the car parking areas and access roads on their property -

• have NOT been adopted by the local authority and are NOT subject to any by-law

  
  

• the passage of vehicles upon private premises or roads is NOT subject to any statutory Act and were it to be any prosecution would be a matter for the Police and/or Local Authority.

  
  

Their inference that drivers automatically enter into a Private Contract would be questionable because

• their provision of car parking is obligatory (planning requirement)

  
  

• their maintenance of the facilities is also inherent in the requirement and the entitlement to park is free -

  
  

that were they to somehow establish in a Court that a contract was generated by a driver electing to park - the only outcome their land owner would have for a breach of any conditions they implied would be for any loss and/or restitution of any damage that occurred as a consequence of parking and in all cases that would be zilch.

If they were to base their claim on the presence of signs and wordage displayed on entering the Leisure Park it also could be easily contested since

• the wordage would need to be prominent and fully explanatory

  
  

• the usage of mimicked statutory markings/signs would have to be made clear.

  
  

UKPC Ltd must be aware of these shortcomings and therefore together with the landowners for whom they purport to be agents or contractors knowingly acted and continue to act illegally and should therefore be prosecuted under at least Section 40 of the the Administration of Justice Act 19701

Attached are copies of related documents from which it can be observed that UKPC have -

• harassed and endeavoured to intimidate and frighten my client

  
  

• mimicked statutory road markings and signage

  
  

• made similarities to official documents in the manner and wordage of their documents and correspondence

  
  

• illegally and/or abusively used DVLA systems and records

  
  

• failed to indicate on the site that a condition of parking requires compliance in a manner of use that is similar to those indicated by the statutory markings that they have copied

  
  

• wrongly inferred that an 'offence' occurred - that it was a 'penalty' – that 'parking fines incurred' and implied the DVLA permitted 'parking tickets' to be issued.

  
  

• Are threatening action in the County Court for 'breach and compensation for parking on private property' and are wrongly asserting outcomes and consequences

  
  

(While the land ownership might be private the condition of it's 'Use' determines that the 'traffic plan' inherent in the granted planning permission is adhered to which requires them to provide and maintain public vehicle parking)

 

1 Section 40 of the the Administration of Justice Act 1970 provides that a person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

• harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

  
  

• falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it

  
  

• falsely represent themselves to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;

  
  

• utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

  
  

Paragraph (a) above does not apply to anything done by a person which is reasonable (and otherwise legal) for the purpose of

• of securing the discharge of an obligation due, or believed by him to be due, to himself or to persons for whom he acts, or protecting himself or them from future loss; or

  
  

• of the enforcement of any liability by legal process.

  
  

 

It is also provided that a person may be guilty of an offence under paragraph (a) above if he concerts with others in the taking of such action as is described in that paragraph, notwithstanding that his own course of conduct does not by itself amount to harassment.

[PK1961]

I have received a call from ALDI who informed me that they had to employ Parkingeye plc as the council no longer wanted to "police" it. ALDI have cancelled the charge as I did go into their shop and purchase something that day. I have heard nothing from Parkingeye plc since the photographic eviidence was sent to me. I assume it has been forgotten about and ALDI are no longer taking my calls. I had the sense that they are fed up with the situation as they mentioned I was not the first to complain!

[andreaarty]

Hello Bernie,

 

I am new to this and this is my first post so I hope I'm doing it right!

 

I have read the letters regarding parking tickets, which seem very helpful but how helpful are they when I have already started the ball rolling.....?

 

I received a penalty charged when my boyfriend, driving my car and is new to this country so his reading and writing skills are not brilliant, parked in a private car park by mistake. He thought it was the private car park for the restaurant/bar he was meeting me in as the car park was just over the road from the restaurant/ bar. :o

 

We were sent a fine for £60.00 and were told we could only appeal when the fine was paid. We sent a cheque along with the appeal. However, unfortunately my boyfriends wages were late getting to his account and the cheque bounced. They then sent us a fine for £80.00 and told us we have lost our right to appeal!

 

The car park had two big notices upon entering informing 'Permit Holders Only', where my boyfriend parked had no sign displayed. It was 8pm when he parked there and we were only an hour at the most. The car park was completely empty so we were not obstructing anyone.

 

Do we still have a leg to stand on as we had attempted to pay, in doing so aren't we admitting to liability?

 

Thanks for any advice on this matter.

[ShortlyTdwarf]

Not necessarily. Since the cheque has bounced and you haven't actually paid them there are still means to get them to back off.

 

Firstly, read Bernie's other sticky on this here regarding what to do if you've already contacted them and then start your own thread posting up the letters/notices you've received so far with personal details removed. Someone will soon advise you as to the best course of action.

[andreaarty]

Hello ShortlyTdwarf

 

Thanks for your reply. What do you think to Petej2811's post:

 

"I see your charge as unlawful, uneforceable and I am not liable. I will not be providing any payment and your continued pursuit of this matter will constitute an offence under the Protection From Harassment Act 1997. I consider the matter closed and am explicitly instructing you not to contact me again for any reason."

 

and then if they reply to move onto Bernie's various letter?

[LoveableRogue]

bernie and voxlaic, you're great .

 

best,

 

 

 

loveablerogue

[steve16]

Has anyone had any dealings with Combined Parking Solutions ?

Thanks

[Evil Monkey]

Hi,

Only just joined and wondered if anyone can help?

I received a parking ticket for £100 (£60 if paid within 7 days) from Excel parking. This was for utilising 2 parking spaces (not in a Pay & Display).

I was just going to pay it, as I am a bit of a worrier!.... I then read all the posts and wondered whether I should or not?

I didn't see any signs about it being run by a private company until I had read the ticket and then I scanned the car park - would not have noticed the sign without specifically looking for it.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. :-|

[andreaarty]

Hello

 

I thought I would post a reply by giving you the conclusion to one of Bernie's letters, so far.....ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAS HAPPENED I have received no response to my (registered post) letter, the letter that replied to their letter demanding £120 in 21 days. The 21 days have definitely surpassed and there have been no burly men dressed in black waiting to take me to court :o or anything else for that matter. I am certainly not going to chase them up to see why they haven't replied.

[chazblat]

My wife has received a 'civil penalty notice' from APCOA at the Bristol Parkway car park for parking in a 'not designated parking area'.

She was parked at the end of a line of spaces under a flight of stairs where there was just space because the car is small, the back of the car was further in than the back of other cars in the line so there was no obstruction caused and she was using an otherwise unusable space.

Can anyone advise on the following possible ways out?

The ticket had a space for the attendant's signature but it was not signed, does this invalidate it?

If as suggested in Pete's sticky the claim is in effect for damages, none can be shown to have occurred by her action; is this a defence?

In another post it is implied that on railway premises the parking company may have greater rights but it is not clear how this affects the matter, any clarification?

How is a 'designated parking area' properly defined and indicated and can a defence be based on an assertion that she was in a space in the car park, not obstructing its use in any way and therefore the assertion in the ticket is invalid?

What will they do if I write saying that she was correctly parked and asking them to substantiate their claim that she was not? I had a vague idea that in this country one was innocent until proven guilty?

[goonerjo]

Hello

 

I, like a few before me, am new to all this and hope I don't sound too much of an idiot in my first post.

 

I today visited an Aspects complex with a 16 month old (in a buggy), a 4 year old and my 16 year old Down Syndrome cousin, who doesn't walk too far too well. I drove round and round the car park, but there were no 'unmarked' empty spaces anywhere. As there were at least 15 empty 'disabled' spaces, and I had a disabled child with me (plus the fact that it had started snowing heavily), I decided to park in one of those bays (although he doesn't currently have blue/orange badges). I was parked for just over an hour and came out to find a UKPC ticket on my windscreen. I have checked the whole of the car park and there are no designated 'mother/child' bays at all, although there is a Whacky Warehouse pub, Laserquest, Bowling, Cinema, Swimming Pool and other various family activity places on the site.

 

My question is... do I go with the template letters above and deny all responsibility or do I put my hands up and then appeal against the fine with the above reasons/excuses?

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I appreciate your thoughts/replies.

 

Jo

[Michael Browne]

Template letters.

 

Your appeal will be 'heard' by the very people who are trying to obtain money from you. What do you reckon the chances are?

[goonerjo]

Thanks for your reply. My next Q is, do I send the letter off now (having only received the Notice of Unauthorised Parking today) or do I wait for the 'Charge Certificate' to come through the post?

[Michael Browne]

From post#1:

The basic approach:

 

To coin a phrase first used by Pat Davies, I think, on this forum – be “icily polite” at all times. My rules for the correspondence are:

• Do not initiate correspondence.* This means ignore the ticket but keep it. Only write when they have written to you.

[goonerjo]

Thanks Michael - I did say that I may be a bit dumb !!

[chazblat]

This is helpful; I'm still keen to know whether a ticket has to be signed or not though. Does anyone know?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

This is helpful; I'm still keen to know whether a ticket has to be signed or not though. Does anyone know?

 

If you start from the position that a private parking ticket invoking a penalty is not lawful anyway, whether it is signed or not is irrelevant.

[KB2000]

Hello again.. Bernie the Bolt!

 

As you know, I have posted a few times regarding these Europark people and have followed the advice given but they will just not go away! This started when my son parked on Tesco carpark for all of 20 minutes!

 

He has received a further letter today, just when I thought they'd gone away, from Controlaccount Credit Management saying

 

It is a legal requirement to send notice of an intention to make a civil claim before that claim is issued. This letter fulfils that requirement and has been sent to you at the last address we hold for you.

 

this is your final chance to prevent litigation being commenced against y ou; if you ignore this warning then proceedings may commence and judgement will be sought. The cost relating to such litigation will be added to the amount claimed, together with interest at a statutory rate of 8%.

 

If judgement is obtained and an order for repayament in full is granted but remains unpaid, enforcement of that judgement may be sought by the following procedures:

- Warrant of execution by bailiff against goods owned by you

- Application for an Attachment of Earnings

etc etc.....

 

I'm not sure what the next step should be. Any advice please?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

If you receive a formal sealed claim form from the court come back here and I am sure that people will be very happy to advise.

[KB2000]

OK. Thank you but in the meantime does he not reply to this letter from this collection company?

[pirouk]

i am expecting some letter from then, will follow this guide and see what happens.

[Tusses]

Hi

 

We have just received by post to our address.

 

The PCN was from Parking Eye for an Aldi Car park in Bedworth £70 reduced to £40 if early payment

 

now read this next bit carefully !

 

They have made a mistake with who the charge is addressed to.

 

My wife is the registered keeper for the vehicle. Her name on the log book is just (not real name) Apple Banana-Collie

 

My name is Bruss A Collie

 

The letter is addressed to Mr A B Collie.

 

 

 

So - do I just write back as Mr Bruss Collie and say there is no Mr A B Collie at this address. ?

 

If you read the letter, it is clearly aimed at the RK of the Car's Reg which is my wife - Definitely not a Mr !

 

Or does my Wife need to write with a standard template letter - even tho the letter is not 'Entirely Correct' (wording they used that we would be admitting to the letter being entirely correct if we pay)

 

Thanks

Tusses