Council Parking Fine

[GLENEAGLES1]

Can anyone offer me any advice.

 

I was going to the local council owned gym where I am a member and parked in the council car park that is next to the gym.

 

I drove around the car park a couple of times but could not find a parking bay so parked on a grass verge. I got out of the car and paid for a ticket for three hours.

 

Upon return I had received a ticket stating that the car was parked incorrectly.

 

Afterwards I read the and display sign which says that you have to park in a parking bay.

 

Seeing as I was trying to park correctly but there was no spaces available do I have grounds to appeal as I feel this is very unfair.

 

Should I have been given a warning first?

 

P.S. Should the council have to define a parking bay and should they also have to tell you were the nearest parking is next to this site.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

[Conniff]

Should I have been given a warning first?

 

I think you were given a warning as you say yourself:

 

Afterwards I read the [pay] and display sign which says that you have to park in a parking bay.

 

Should the council have to define a parking bay

 

Does that mean that there were no white lines marking out the bays in which to park??

 

IMO I think you will have to put this one down to experience and pay up.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

IMO I think you will have to put this one down to experience and pay up.

Only if the ticket (and NTO of the OP is prepared to take that risk) is lawfully drafted.

[Conniff]

Only if the ticket (and NTO of the OP is prepared to take that risk) is lawfully drafted.

 

 

Yes of course BB - that goes without saying, they should scan the ticket and place it on here for the experts to check it before they decide to pay.

[GLENEAGLES1]

How do you attach the scanned document on here?

 

I have also attached a link to the councils website.

 

On here it says that the parking attendant could of issued a warning instead of a ticket. Do you think I have grounds to appeal due to the fact that I had parked illegally due to no spaces but paid for a ticket. The ticket shows I wasn't trying to avoid paying.

 

WCBC: Wrexham Car Parks

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I'd love to see the ticket, both sides, because if this is what their web site says:

Pay and Display

 

When parking in a Pay and Display car park, a ticket must be purchased and clearly displayed in the vehicle (unless you are a Disabled Badge Holder). Pay and Display ticket machines are located in various positions in each of the Pay and Display car parks.

 

Car Park Attendants

 

Car Park Attendants patrol each town centre car park regularly between 8am and 5pm to ensure that all vehicles conform to car park regulations. Once a Car Park Attendant has begun issuing a ticket he cannot cancel it.

 

Warning Notice

 

A Warning Notice will be issued to vehicles in contravention of the car park regulations for any offence [wrong! it's a decriminalised system so it is not an offence it is a contravention - yes it does matter!] that does not warrant an Excess Charge Ticket / Car Park Ticket.

 

Excess Charge Ticket / Car Park Ticket

 

An Excess Charge Ticket / Car Park Ticket is issued by the Car Park Attendant to any vehicle in contravention of the car park regulations, for any fineable [wrong again! it is most definately not a fine it is a penalty charge backed by statute. Again it matters because this is part of the reason why the system escapes the Bill of Rights] offence [wrong! - as before]. Once the Car Park Attendant has begun to write the ticket, he does not have the authority to cancel it. See frequently asked questions on how to avoid getting an Excess Charge Ticket.

Makes me think that they are unlikely to have got the wording on the ticket right.

 

Now there is another thought. This info does not refer to "Penalty Charge Notice" and also makes no reference to NTOs or on-street parking. I'm wondering whether this is decriminalised at all or whether this is really the council operating as private parking contractors.

 

Any thoughts on this anyone? Really need to see that ticket!

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

How do you attach the scanned document on here?

 

See here

[patdavies]

 

Now there is another thought. This info does not refer to "Penalty Charge Notice" and also makes no reference to NTOs or on-street parking. I'm wondering whether this is decriminalised at all or whether this is really the council operating as private parking contractors.

 

More likely that parking has not yet been de-criminalised and that the ticker is and ECN issued under the 1984 Act. In which case, it is an excess; not an offence or a contravention. However, it still seems muddled as, AFAIK, tickets cannot be issued by a council employee under a non-decriminalised regime - only Police and Traffic Wardens

 

Really need to see that ticket!

 

Absolutely

[GLENEAGLES1]

Here is the parking ticket.

 

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/8030/parkingticketem4.png

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Pat was spot on in his conjecture.

 

I'm really sorry but I am so out of date on this it needs a better mind than mine.

[GLENEAGLES1]

I forgot to add that the other side of the ticket is blank.

[patdavies]

Quick question: Does the car park have bays marked out on the tarmac? If there are no properly marked bays, then you can challenge the council that nobody can comply with their rule as no bays properly exist. You may have to go all the way to court and argue this before a judge. Thsi is not within the remit of the parking adjudicator.

 

This how an ECN works:

 

There will be a TRO (Traffic Regulation Order) covering the car park.

This will say that the cost of parking is (for example)£50. However,, the motorist is offered a discounted rate of (again, for example) £1.50/hr providing he/she abides by the rules listed in the TRO (and hopefully displayed in the car park).

If you don't abide by their rules, the the discounted rate no longer applies and you are liable for the full rate (£50).

 

It is not a fine or a penalty; they have simply removed the discount. They can (and will) chase this via County Court as a civil debt.

[GLENEAGLES1]

The bays were properly marked but all full when I arrived. If the car park is full should the council have to provide details of the nearest alternative parking?

 

Clutching at straws but is there any obligation on the council to give a defanition of what constitutes a parking bay.

[Conniff]

 

This how an ECN works:

 

There will be a TRO (Traffic Regulation Order) covering the car park.

This will say that the cost of parking is (for example)£50. However,, the motorist is offered a discounted rate of (again, for example) £1.50/hr providing he/she abides by the rules listed in the TRO (and hopefully displayed in the car park).

If you don't abide by their rules, the the discounted rate no longer applies and you are liable for the full rate (£50).

 

It is not a fine or a penalty; they have simply removed the discount. They can (and will) chase this via County Court as a civil debt.

 

 

Ok, going by the above and using your figures. The person parking must be told somewhere what the full parking fee is.

Now that they have not obeyed by the rules and the discount has been removed, then the £1.50/hr must be able to be deducted from the full rate.

So if you paid for 3 hours and the full charge is £50 then you owe £50 minus £4.50 which you have already paid, so only need to pay £45.50, yes???

[GLENEAGLES1]

Conniff,

 

Are you trying to say that because I had already spent £1.50 on a ticket which was still valid then I should only be paying the excess minus the £1.50.

 

If that is the case can I then argue the ticket is incorrect as it should say that I should only pay £23.50 for paying early(instead of £25) or £48.50 (instead of £50) if I delay payment.

[Conniff]

Hi Glen

 

If the way Pat has explained the workings of it is correct (and I have no reason to doubt that), then I believe that if you had already paid £1.50 then you should claim that be deducted from the final cost.

 

We should wait until Pat returns and reads before we jump to conclusions though.

[patdavies]

To be totally honest, I don't know. I have never heard of someone claiming that - i need to do more research.

 

For the OP though the ticket would seem to be correctly issued. You didn't park in a marked bay, contrary to the rules within the notices. I would pay up at the reduced rate.

 

But I will research the issue of subtracting the money already paid and post back.