Barclays:Business/Personal Bank Charges (POCs)

[HattieTheFirst]

Hi

 

HELP I guess!!

 

I sent off a moneyclaim online for claiming Barclays business bank charges. In my haste I pasted a POC (recommended by thisismoney.com) and after having sent it off I have noticed that the POC states .........................applied a number of default charges to the claimants CURRENT ACCOUNT............. I should have changed it to read business account and stated a business account number.

 

Will Barclays just put two and two together as they have a schedule of charges sent with my original letters to them (stating it is a business account) or will they use this to get it thrown out.

 

 

It also includes...........they are a breach of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1990.............. and I have now found out that for business accounts it comes under Common Law and not Consumer Law.

 

ALSO! The claim is for GBP 6,500.00 for which I have now found out that I am liable for Barclays costs if any as over GBP 5,000.

 

What would you do now - The stage that I am presently at (as at 6th November 07) is I have just received a Notice of Acknowledgement of Service from the courts giving Barclays a further 28 days and they have ticked the "I intend to defent all the claim" box.

 

Thank you. I know more haste less speed comes to mind.

[slick132]

Hi Hattie and welcome to the Barclays Forum.

 

In many cases that were started using MCOL, the judge reviews the case and finds the POC to be inadequate and orders that a new POC or further info is to be furnished. This would be an ideal opportunity to use the new POC which you'll find in the Stickies at the start of the Barclays Forum.

 

The matter of your saying CURRENT a/c and not BUSINESS should not jeopardise the claim.

 

Wait for banks defence to be Filed in court and, when the judge reviews the case, you should be told what happens next.

 

One thing I WOULD advise, however, is that you write to the Court NOW and point out that yours is a BUSINESS a/c claim. Ask that this be made clear on your file and respectfully suggest that the case should NOT be Stayed as the OFT Test Case does NOT apply to business claims.

 

Slick

[slick132]

Hattie,

 

Also have a read here to see how a business a/c claim differs slightly to one for a personal a/c - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/105213-guide-business-claims.html

 

Also read here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html

 

Reading around the threads here will also give you invaluable info on what you may expect with your claim.

 

Post back here on your thread if you need help anytime.

[HattieTheFirst]

Thanks so much for the advice. I cant tell you how grateful I am! I will contact the courts straight away re telling them it is a business account etc. I will let you know how it goes. Tks.

[HattieTheFirst]

Hi

Just a quick one - would you c.c. a copy of the letter that you suggest I send to the court (re confirming business account) to the solicitor at Barclays Litigation Dept who is dealing with this particular case. This may sound strange but I do have a personal current account with them. It might also re-iterate that I am not backing down

 

Thanks

[bbch60]

Hi Hattie

I wi be reading your thread with interest as I have a business and a personal claim that have BOTH been stayed. I have also appealed them but I lost the appeal. I now have to wait until the result of the Oft case.

Good luck with your claims.

[HattieTheFirst]

Hi bbch60

 

Thanks for your comments. I will keep you informed of the progress. Hattie

[slick132]

Hi Hattie,

 

Yes, it is polite and proper to copy all correspondence sent to court to the bank. This will NOT be reciprocated by the bank, though.

 

Any IMPORTANT letters to barclays must be sent by Rec'd Del'y so you have proof of receipt - you'll soon learn how many doc'ts they lose !

 

Copy letters to bank which are NOT so important can go by ordinary post.

[HattieTheFirst]

Hi

 

Just to say that I sent a letter off recorded to the court yesterday confirming that it was in fact a business account and not a current account and that the letter should be added to my file. I was a tad too late as this morning I received a letter from the court saying that the case will be stayed.....

 

I phoned up the court who say I can (as I had already sent a letter in) ask for the stay to be lifted and that I should write again to the court to ask for this. I am doing this today and will update when I get a response.

Hattie

[slick132]

Hattie,

 

Can you hold off from writing to court just now.

 

I'll come back, with some ammunition if I can find some, to send to the court.

[HattieTheFirst]

OK I'll hold off for a bit (weekend anyway!) - Thanks Hattie

[slick132]

The Court Manager

xxxxx County Court

Address Date

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

BUSINESS CHARGES CLAIM

HATTIE -V- BARCLAYS BANK PLC

Claim No: 1AB12345

I spoke on Date to your County Court and was informed me that my case has been Stayed.

This has been done IN ERROR because my claim against the bank concerns my business bank account and does not, therefore, depend on the outcome of the OFT Commercial case being heard in January.

The central focus and grounds for the OFT’s case is to determine whether or not the charges are subject to the test of reasonableness, as required under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (UTCCR 99), which are of no consequence to the basis of my claim in this case.

 

As a Business account claimant, my claim does not include any reference to nor make any reliance upon the UTCCR. As such, it would serve no purpose to delay proceedings in order to await the outcome of a case that would have no bearing or relevance upon my case.

I believe my case should not have been sent to your court and that it should not be Stayed as with cases regarding Personal bank account claims.

I would respectfully ask that this letter be put before the Judge so my case may proceed without further delay.

Yours faithfully,

Hattie

[HattieTheFirst]

Thank you very much for doing this. I will get on to it straight away and let you the outcome. Hattie.

[HattieTheFirst]

Hi

 

I have received a reply from Money Claim Online re the last letter I sent them (I used the template you sent me re business accounts above)

 

Their reply is..............If you wish to apply to lift the stay in order for the claim to proceed, you may apply to do so but you must give valid reasons for the request. The fact that you state this is a business account is not sufficient as the stay relates to both personal and business current accounts..................

 

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Hattie

[slick132]

Hattie,

 

Was this their reply to the draft I posted at #12 above. If so, I think they have sent you a template response.

 

I'd write back to them with a copy of the first letter saying:-

 

"I do not think my last letter was properly considered and would respectfully suggest this matter be answered by a senior member of the Court's Staff or, indeed, by a Judge. I would appreciate a full response to my letter and NOT a template response.

 

If you still believe, on reflection, that you are right to Stay my business claim as if it were a personal bank charges claim, please confirm precisely by what authority you are doing this. I have information from the OFT which confirms that the General Stays are NOT applicable to business bank charges claims.

 

I look forward to hearing from you shortly."

 

See what they come back with.

[HattieTheFirst]

Hi

I sent a letter back to the court (as post 15) and this is the response that I got back:-

 

.......Further to consideration of your request, the District Judge has indicated that all unfair penalty charge claims - made against any of the eight banks currently subject to Office of Fair Trading Case Directions Order (14th August 2007) - including personal and business current accounts must remain stayed until such time as a High Court ruling has been made.

As a Circuit Judge, Mr X, is unfortunately unable to make separate rulings based on individual points of law, apart from the High Court Judges' Final Decision.

However, I apologise for any concern caused and would like to reiterate my colleague's previous advice. If you provide reasons why the stay should be lifted apart from the issue of the charges in relation to a Business current account, I will be pleased to lift the stay on your behalf and process the case for transfer to your local County Court........

Any comments/suggestions?

Thanks

Hattie

[slick132]

Hi Hattie,

 

Will seek advice and come back.

[slick132]

Hattie,

 

Having sought and received clarification, the site's opinion is that this decision is wrong and should be challenged.

 

This link shows the FSA Press Release dated 21st November 2007 - FSA publishes review of 'waiver' on the handling of complaints in relation to unauthorised overdraft charges

 

Third para from the end states:-

 

The review has also clarified the status of small business accounts, which are not covered by the waiver. The FSA has agreed with the firms arrangements to ensure small business customers are not disadvantaged.

Letter to Court :-

 

Thank you for your letter of Date.

 

May I respectfully draw to the attention of Judge name, the Press Release made by the Financial Services Authority on 21st Novenber 2007 which states,

 

" The review has also clarified the status of small business accounts, which are not covered by the waiver. The FSA has agreed with the firms arrangements to ensure small business customers are not disadvantaged. "

 

I enclose a copy of the Press Release for the Court's information. (Print off and enclose copy of press release from link above)

 

In light of this information, I would be grateful if the Court would give this matter further consideration and remove the Stay applied to my claim.

 

Yours etc.

[HattieTheFirst]

Thank you. I'll get it sent off and let you know their reply.

[HattieTheFirst]

Hi

 

Just got a letter back from the court re the letter sent re FSA waiver/business accounts (post 18) and guess what(!)

 

It is ordered that:-

 

1) The claimant's letter stands as an application for leave to lift the stay

2) No fee payable

3) Transfer to local court

4) Filing of an allocation of transfer be dispensed with unless District Judge at court orders otherwise.

 

How good is that?!

 

I'm guessing the next step will be contact by Barclays or a court hearing date.

Thank you for help - will get you up-to-date with progress

Hattie

[HattieTheFirst]

Above should read Post 18

[slick132]

Hi Hatie,

 

This is excellent news (I think) .

 

The only thing it DOESN'T say, however, is that the Stay is Lifted.

 

So before you approach Barclays, I suggest you wait until it reaches your local court and the Judge reviews AND continues your case.

 

Have the AQ and Draft Directions ready for when needed - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

You also need to be ready to put your court Bundle together. Use the zip file link in here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/33060-basic-court-bundle.html

 

You need to get well acquainted with the court Bundle so, if you have to put it together for a hearing, you're not in a last minute panic. There's a lot to print out, put together in order, paginate, etc and it is many hours work.

 

Because yours is a business claim, you don't need to include the UTCCR section in your Bundle.

 

You have to prepare 3 copies of the Bundle if ordered to do so by the Court's Directions. Make sure you have spare ink cartridges and a spare pack of printer paper.

 

As long as your local court agrees to continue the case, you should be moving on well now.

[slick132]

Further to my last post, I've sought other opinions.

 

MCOL's Judge has agreed to take your letter as Application for Stay removal but it is then up to your local Judge to consider and rule.

 

If you get notice of a hearing for this (you may or may not be informed), you could attend and take copies of the doc'ts I've mentioned.

 

So great news that MCOL have released your case but further to go yet, I'm afraid.

[HattieTheFirst]

Hi

 

I think I will start putting some documentation together, just in case it is required.

 

Let's hope the local judge is in the festive spirit of things!

I guess I will have to wait and see.

Thanks Hattie

[slick132]

Hattie,

 

Very wise. Even if it's not needed now, it may be needed soon, so your time will not be wasted.

 

Use the links I've posted above and come back with any Q's.