Car HP and cca request

[chickenmad]

Ive got a car on hp but have never received a credit aggrement all i was given was a pre credit approval form which all the figures are wrong. I am not at the half way stage yet.I can not afford to keep up the repayments and was wondering what happens if i cca them if i can , can they still reposses the car or if they dont produce one what happens re the car do i return it and get my money back or can i keep it with no further payments. Ialso live in scotland which means they have to go to court to get posetion.I will try and scan the form i have later ,thanks for any help

[Edz11]

I love HP agreements. They are so easy to make a pigs ear of....

 

Presumably you bought a car and the dealer sorted out a finance deal for you. You need to scan and post the details of what limited paperwork you have on here.

 

You may have traded in your old car or put down a deposit - but no matter what, you'll have received a separate bill/invoice/receipt for your dealings with the dealer and a separate batch of paperwork for the loan. You must find your paperwork from the dealer - you can get the other stuff for the loan from the finance company later.

 

But what do you have so far?

[Edz11]

HP agreements are nearly always defective

 

You need to CCA and SAR the lender (£1 and £10 respectively). That gets you what you need to know under the Consumer Credit Act and Data Protection Act. Browse the site to see how to do it and why. (It is FAR better that you know why you are doing things rather just knowing what to do).

 

Why do you say the figures on the form are wrong? Did you keep any paperwork from the dealer? (aside from that approval form)

[Edz11]

read the two posts as one. it didn't paste proper, like...

[chickenmad]

this is the only paper work i have as the garage and finance company are the same people i part exed a car and was given £4000 for it which cleared the finance owing on it i then paid £395 cash deposit plus financed the rest ie £5000 but the figures show different ,it looks like they added some together then took off th px figure

My Documents.zip

[Edz11]

As predicted...

 

Was the car you were buying £9395?

 

This is not the agreement. It isn't executed and can't be as there isn't any room for signatures of the creditor/debtor.

 

You have no choice but to ask for a copy of the agreement under S79 of the CCA. That will show what paperwork they do have. What you have scanned is not enforceable. What did you sign?

[chickenmad]

thanks for the reply i paid £5395 for the car ,i have ccad them im awaiting there reply i did sign paperwork but never received any copies in the post

[Edz11]

The agrement has to state the total cash price of the goods and in the pre contract document it says that that is £9395. If that does not apear on the agreement you get under the CCA request (and it won't) then it is unenforceable. But we'll come back to that later on when you get it.

[chickenmad]

This is the agreement ive been sent nothing else it does say in box 2 TAP (3+8 is £8680.16 but if you add up box 3 &8 it does not make £8680.16 so im thinkin of using there figures and returning the car with no more to pay as ive paid over £6537.58 according to there workings on this aggrement will i be able to do this any advice very much appreciated

ccagif.zip

[chickenmad]

Can anyone help as i need to take action soon before they default me

[Edz11]

Sorry for the delay. Printed them off now. What was the price of the car when you saw it - What was on the windscreen?

[Edz11]

according to my copy of Goode - the total payable under the agreement is

the total cash price 9395?

+ credit and charges 3680

Total payable = 13075 (50% = 6537). This is odd. It's the first one I've seen that's 100% accurate. Bu the date on the agreement is 05/05 (when it was printed?). It's well post Wilson case.

 

Bad news I'm afraid. It is kosher if the price on the windscreen was £9395.

If not, it gets interesting. The total payable under the agreement is the price of the car + credit cost. The cash and car deposit you paid is counted as a credit payable against the "half of the agreement" figure. So quickly terminate. You may find yourself getting a call from the finance people trying to get you to accept a good offer to buy it.

[chickenmad]

the price was not on the screen but was told it was £5395 my part ex was on finance and they gave me £4000 in part ex which cleared that finance which is not shown this is where the figures dont make sense to me as it does not show the settlement of my previous hp. so im gonna terminate and take the figures they have used on the agreement theyr not gonna be happy as i live 600 miles from the garage and on an scottish island (expensive ferry crossing) is that there problem or mine

[chickenmad]

i bought the car in april 05 and its a photo copy theyve sent me

[The GodMother]

Doesnt the agreement also have to state how much the deposite was? as i dont see it in there.

[Edz11]

Godmother - it does state the deposit on the agreement.

 

Chickenmad. This agreement says that you are paying £9395 for a Rover 75 Club in May 2006. I'm not a car freak but I wouldn't pay that much for a Rover. They were bust by then so there weren't any new models. You say that the price was £5395 - I would say £5 to £6 was about the right figure. Was that figure £5395 agreed? (It is important because those verbal dsicussions also form part of the "contract").

 

You have also said that they would take the car off you and sort out the finance outstanding on it. What was that old car worth (forget the finance) when you got rid of it to the garage? (a rough idea).

 

I think that the HP agreement is NOT enforceable. If you agreed that the cash price of the Rover 75 was £5395 then that is the cash price of the goods. They have deliberately confused the issue by then pushing up the value of the Rover by the amount of the trade in. That affects your rights under the CCA and I think it is clear that that is why they have done that. What it seems that after accounting for finance the old car had no value at all. You are going to tell me what the old car was worth - what was the finance outstanding on it?

 

You might have to Section 142 them. Very rare - but seems like you will need to. Section 142 gets a court to determine the validity of the agreement. It keeps your credit record clean if it currently is.

 

Answer to above ASAP please.

[The GodMother]

I cant see it on there but that might be becasue i cant make the document much bigger

[chickenmad]

the price was agreed verbally as the garage had just got the car in and it wasnt preped they had 2 others for sale around the same price i didnt want to spend more than £5k so im 100% sure of the price the trade in was (no comments please) a kia sportage on a 04 plate but had a strange history of reg by kia but was an import and was worth between £4000 - £4500 had these figures given as partex at several garages and had finance outstanding with log book so was desperate to get out of that mess the settlement was approx £39xx so basically i put down £395 in cash deposit. i definetley bought the car april 05 not may 06 what should be my next move as there chasing for payment

[Edz11]

Its how you want to play it. The agreement is not properly executed as it does not state the total cash price correctly. The figure for credit is stated correctly but by fiddling the cash price they have inflated the amount of the "half the payments bit". I would send off a notice of termination of the agreement. Say that the agreement is now terminated (that means that they can't bang you off a default notice, or if they do it's invalid and simply challengeable in court). Say that the agreement was improperly executed and if they do not accept your calculation of 50% as being £5395 + £3680 = £9075 X 50% = £4537.50 then you will apply to the Court for an order under s142 of the Consumer Credit Act determing this as the correct figure.

 

Dodgy practice by the HP company/garage. And if it isn't, it is just a simple mistake, then I'm proven right - most HP agreements are wrong!

[chickenmad]

Thanks for your help ive got the termination letter written out ill send it asap

[Edz11]

When you take that car back (reasonable distance) not like AFG say "you've got to bring the car down to Worthing" make sure that you have photographed every inch of the car. Reasonable wear and tear is OK. They will say it has been trashed so "you owe us £500 for repairs to he bodywork". You've had the car for over two years and it can't be expected to look new. The photos in and out are your proof. But make sure that days newspaper headlines are in a couple of the shots.

[chickenmad]

im not planning to take it back im gonna tell them to collect it as ill need to pay £100 ferry fare to get off the island then its 60 miles to inverness the nearest town a friend terminated a car a few yrs ago here and the finance company in glasgow left it abandoned for 2yrs till a neibour phoned them and bought it for peanuts off them its far to expensive to collect up here and there 600 miles from me so can go and whistle ,will i need to send off v5 to them so im not liable for it on the road where do i stand

[Edz11]

Good question - what does "reasonable" mean in this context. The agreement is flawed in that it does not correctly state your rights of termination. So you were intent on paying half the payments and then terminating the agreement. But they misled you so you paid too much. It is a "balance" thing. If they decide to take action because you won't take it back where they want then you have the option to go back to the court and apply for the agreement to be effectively rewritten. Which would mean that if you won they would owe you money. So, compromise. Tell them you'll drop if off at the ferry terminal at YOUR end at the time and date of their choosing. Don't forget - all letters by recorded delivery.

[chickenmad]

received a letter today from finance company it reads as follows

 

dated 20.11.07

 

Re :your hire purchase agreement and voluntary termination

 

can you please contact us to arrange return of your vehicle with V5 and any relevant paper work within 7 days (27.11.07)

 

when the vehicle has been return to delbrook and as had a satisfactory inspection a balance of £329.17 will be outstanding. This is arrears of £179.17 plus default charges of £150.00

 

I do owe arrears of £179.17 and the £150 is charges for 10 letters at £15 each , so do i write to them and in form them where they can collect the car ie home address or ferry terminal, my other problem is the condition as it needs a tyre has space saver on rear at mo the rear brakes need attention and the 2 front tyres are in need of replacement any ideas whats my best course of action to reduce my liability im broke at the moment so theres no way im delivering it 600 miles away i have about £10 to last me 3 weeks thanks for any help

[Edz11]

How much have you PAID under this agreement in total.