Motorcycle Entitlement "Disappeared" from my licence

[Sneeking]

This happened last year after renewing my address on my photocard licence. I have held a motorcycle and car licence since 1993 and 1987 respectively.

When I complained to DVLA they told me they needed proof that I had held motorcycle entitlement, for example a photocopy of the back of my old licence or my pass certificate. When I told them that I did not have such evidence, nor did I understand how such proof could be necessary when they had their own database.

They simply told me that there was nothing they could do.

 

I contacted MAG, the motorcycle action group. They told me they had received many similar complaints.

I also raised the issue with my MP.

All to no avail.

 

I ride a motorcycle for a living and now believe I am unlicenced and probably invalidating my insurance.

This leaves me in a tricky situation. I cannot give up my work now (freelance contractor) and have already had problems when stopped routeinly by police.

 

Have there been similar cases, and does anyone know how best to presurise the DVLA into returning my entitlement?

I have been told I will have to retest. This costs £400-£700. The firm I originally took my test with have since closed, so cannot trace my original test certificate (if it even still exists, which I doubt).

 

Thanks in advance.

[Rob S]

This is a sorry story which has been repeated many times over. I am told if you notice that the licence is missing groups once you receive it back then they will correct the mistake, but if it is noticed much later (as in your case) then they will take the stance they have taken with you.

 

You took your motorcycle test in 1993, so it's a long shot but it might be worth contacting the test centre where you took your test to see if they still have the record of your test pass.

 

I would also send a subject access request to DVLA to ask them to reveal all the information they hold on you. It is normal for them to run a "document trail" on every licence record that they hold. This will record all changes to your licence, starting from when you first applied for a provisional licence, and will show changes of address, issue of duplicate licences (when one has been lost/stolen or defaced), any updates for medical reasons etc etc, so that may be useful for you to see this.

 

How far have you pushed it with DVLA, did you lodge a formal complaint?

[buzby]

This happened to me, however my 'A' group somehow morphed into 'A1' ending my right to ride powerful bikes. Since they have a reputation of not readily admitting to their mistakes, they too asked for proof that I had passed the full test. I countered by giving them the date and the test centre and said that I did not believe their records did not show my original photo card licence had the A group on it. I threatened to SAR them and additionally charge for my time to resolve the matter. A week later I received a replacement licence with the correct details, no apology or explanation.

[Sneeking]

Thank you buzby and rob.

Buzby, your story has spurred me to confront them now, and I shall certainly threaten them with further action.

will post details when i get news.

many thanks

[buzby]

Keep us posted. In fairness (to me) since they admitted I had passed my bike test anyway (as I had an A class (OK A1), I had clearly sat a test of some sort and it was simply a keying error. One they were not prepared to admit. That said, this appears to be a common problem and I'd urge anyone who sends a licence in to the DVLA (or gets one back) to initially take a copy of of it and ensure what you get back is the same or at least reflects the relevant changes. This way if it goes wrong, you can pursue it quickly and have the necessary proof!

[Ellison50]

I have come in a bit late on this thread, but reading this prompted me to check my own licence since moving house and changing to a photocard one.

 

And horrors or horrors - my motorcycle entitlement has gone. I took my test in 1984, but thank goodness I have not been riding a bike recently.

 

I will be contacting the DVLA - I never even considered this could happen.

 

Thank you for the advice and indirect 'heads up'.

[advisee]

From enquiries made with DVLA, a lot of these 'lost entitlements' issues are due to one of the below:

 

-people not sending the original test pass certificate in at the time

 

-people not renewing licences correctly (in the case of HGV, PCV, etc) with a medical cert.

 

Did your previous licence definitely show motorbike? If you previously had 7.5 tonne entitlement (car test passed before 1997), has this gone also?

[Ellison50]

From enquiries made with DVLA, a lot of these 'lost entitlements' issues are due to one of the below:

 

-people not sending the original test pass certificate in at the time

 

-people not renewing licences correctly (in the case of HGV, PCV, etc) with a medical cert.

 

Did your previous licence definitely show motorbike? If you previously had 7.5 tonne entitlement (car test passed before 1997), has this gone also?

 

I passed my car test before my bike test, and this was all before 1997. I remember my car licence on it's own allowed me to ride a 50cc moped without L-plates and carry a pillion. I took by bike licence after as I wanted to ride, and subsequently did for many years, a 750cc.

 

I do not know all the categories off by heart, but now my licence shows:

B, BE, C1, C1E, D1, D1E (f,k,l,n,p).

 

The group that I know has gone is the bike licence (group A?). I took a 2 part bike test at the time on a (restricted) 125cc with L-plates. The first part was around cones etc., and the Part 2 was a road test. I was then allowed to ride a motorbike over 125cc and carry a pillion.

[Helford]

BBC Watchdog did an article on this a year or so back, it is not just motor cycle entitlements that have disappeared, but HGV entitlements as well! So if you are a professional driver, check your licence and if it has disappeared, worth speaking with your Transport Manager to see if he/she holds an old copy on file!

 

See this link from another forum for snippets from the BBC Watchdog report

 

http://www.bikersadvice.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34

 

I trust OK to post?

 

Poor celebrations in beer manufacturing factories springs to mind!

H

[Rob S]

From enquiries made with DVLA, a lot of these 'lost entitlements' issues are due to one of the below:

 

-people not sending the original test pass certificate in at the time

 

-people not renewing licences correctly (in the case of HGV, PCV, etc) with a medical cert.

 

Did your previous licence definitely show motorbike? If you previously had 7.5 tonne entitlement (car test passed before 1997), has this gone also?

 

DVLA will be delighted to take the opportunity to shift the blame for their failures elsewhere, but the fact remains that many people have sent in their licences for routine matters, usually a change of address, and they come back with full licence categories, for which a pass certificate has previously been sent in, removed.

 

The fact is that when someone passes a driving test and their pass certificate is sent in, they will record it on their database. So the question has to be asked why they make it so difficult for people who have had categories "removed"? They could easily check their records and reinstate the relevent category without making people jump through hoops, and in some cases having to re-take their driving test to get the category back, because of DVLA intransigence and unwillingness to admit they cocked it up.

[advisee]

Rob - the "database" on the 1980s was very basic, and parts of it were not even computerised - I accept though that they probably have records on microfiche etc of a lot of the missing bits.

[patdavies]

Rob - the "database" on the 1980s was very basic, and parts of it were not even computerised - I accept though that they probably have records on microfiche etc of a lot of the missing bits.

 

Still liable to be provided in response to a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) though...

[Ellison50]

BBC Watchdog did an article on this a year or so back, it is not just motor cycle entitlements that have disappeared, but HGV entitlements as well! So if you are a professional driver, check your licence and if it has disappeared, worth speaking with your Transport Manager to see if he/she holds an old copy on file!

 

See this link from another forum for snippets from the BBC Watchdog report

 

Bikers Advice :: View topic - Lost entitlement

 

I trust OK to post?

 

Poor celebrations in beer manufacturing factories springs to mind!

H

 

This is late in response from me, but thank you.

[Bonzomatic]

Same happened to me. I took my test when I was 16, some 40 years ago.

DVLA had lost all records as in those days Driving licences where administered by local authority. I complained to my MP and even took it to the Ombudsman through my M.P. The Ombudsman sided with DVLA. There is nothing that you can do apart from starting afresh.Annoying I know, but I got my 3 part test wrapped up in 2 months. Still don't understand why a full car licence holder has to sit the Highway Code test again? If you fail it does that mean you can't drive a car again?? (LOL) But so many people have lost the right to drive/ride whatever..it is high time our MP's asked questions in the House and demanded proper answers, and provide compensation to people who have been so affected by this burocratic balls up!!

[uk1975]

I know 3 people that this has happened to.

 

One even used to be an emergency dispatch rider for the NHS. All 3 have been told "tough, if you want to ride big bikes you'll have to resit your test.

 

There were also reports that this has happened on some HGV entitlements, one where the driver's employer had kept photocopies of everybody's licences on their records, on forwarding this copy to the DVLA they were still told "how do we know that's a true copy, it could be a forgery, we're not accepting it. you'll have to redo your test."

[exrider]

I'm pleased I found this forum because for many years, I've been convinced people didn't quite believe me when I told my story. I passed my car test whilst still a teenager in the late 70's & then took & passed my motorcycle test shortly afterwards.

 

I subsequently owned a succession of Japanese machines until my father gave me a white BMW R75/6. I used this beautiful machine on a daily basis before eventually selling it to help fund my first property. Sadly, I returned to driving cars & I didn't think about motorcycles for many years.

 

Some 10 years later whilst pondering the purchase of a new 125cc motorcycle, I was amazed to discover I was no longer licensed! I simply assumed my medical condition had been reviewed & that because of my partial paralysis, motorcycles had been removed...However from what I've read here, removing licence entitlement seems to be a fairly common practice within the DVLA...It's reassuring to know I'm not alone!!

 

My Best Wishes to you all

[twistedtriker68]

This is what exactly happened to me.

Have had a Motorcyle licence for over 20 years and when i put my old paper licence in to be changed to the photocard, they didnt put my motorcycle entitlement on it

Absolutely disgraceful.

[macawman]

Hi all. I passed my motorcycle test in 1976. In 2003 I moved to my present address and in 2003 I discovered my motorcycle entitlement was missing from my licence. After many letters to DVLA and my MP over the past 15 months the DVLA have finally admitted that they made an error and my motorcycle entitlement has been restored to my licence. I have to say that I informed the DVLA of the exact date of my pass and the motorcycle Reg No of my motorcycle that I passed my test on and the insurer at that time (Thank you Dad). As I said, this has taken 15 months to come to a satisfactory conclusion. Do not give up!

[Watters]

This makes me very annoyed. My Dad is 73, he is totally fit and bright as a person half his age. He loves riding his bike, he buys them, lovingly re-stores them and then rides them and then sells them on. When you are 70 you apparently have to re-apply for your driving license every 3 years and he had it back just recently and noticed his motorcycle entitlement was missing, but he does not know when it went off his license.

 

He passed his bike test in 1951 and is a very experienced rider. He has written several letters to the DVLA who tell him the same as they have told the other people, that he has to prove that he has passed or sit his test again. I am outraged on his behalf.

 

He remembered that in 1979 he was on his way to Donington and got a speeding ticket on his bike, so surely that proves that he did have a bike licence.....(otherwise when the police did the license check, if he did not have one they would have arrested him) but no the DVLA said that means nothing. grrrrrrr. So my Dad has written to the Derbyshire Police asking if they have the record of his speeding offence.....he has heard nothing yet. Does anyone have any further advice on what he or I could do. 8-)

[buzby]

As much as I would like to think it will be of use, hoping that the Police will confirm your Dad had an m/c entitlement 20+ years ago probably wouldn't satisfy the DVLA, this is even assuming the police retained a record of the ticket in the first place (after all this time). In itself, the ticket proves nothing, as it could have been the precursor of a conviction (now spent) of driving a M/c without a licence. Not that he did, of course, which is why it is imperative you check and check again and ensure entitlements don't fall off. In the mid 70's the EU vehicle classifications were being introduced and I recall having to watch each licence renewal like a hawk as the letters designating the entitlements were reversed, numericised and juggled.

 

None of this helps restore a group to a licence when it has dropped off, but if you're tryng to get it back on a point of principle, I accept your sentiments wholeheartedly, but the DVLA will need evidence to prove the case, and in many respects MAY ALREADY hold the information on their database, and are just being awkward. Asking for a SAR my be the trick to resolve the issue.

[Watters]

Well thank you for that, I knew the police ticket would be a long shot but it grieves me that my Dad will have to pay out of his pension to get something he already has.

 

I will suggest that he asks for an SAR. I will let you know what happens.

 

Thanks

[stikky62]

Christ,,,,i'm glad i found this thread. I passed my bike test over 27 yrs ago. Thank F**k i've still got my paper license. I've thought about sending it off a few times to get some old speeding offences removed; but a little voice in my head kept saying 'don't, you'll regret it'

[WOOD73]

I have just had a replacement licence through due to change of address and I couldnt find my old paper one, and my HGV 1 entitlement has dissapeared from the pink bit and reappeared on the green as a provisional!

I have just been offered work as a driver by a friend who knows I hold a licence but he needs a copy on file for insurance purposes. what should I do first and how long could this take as I am desperately needing the money at the moment.

thanks in advance

[Rob S]

If you have only just got your licence back then DVLA should rectify the mistake. They have been obstinate on this issue when a long period of time has elapsed since the replacement licence was issued (I think they regard anything over 6 weeks as a long period of time) and they then try and place the onus on the individual to prove they had the entitlement.

 

The sooner you contact them the better. Try by phone initially and if they prove resistant then write in.

[Pat-Uk]

My MC entitlement has gone too,

 

I got my licence back about 6 weeks ago never checked it propperly, lost my paper one years ago and only just got round to getting it replaced, passed Bike test in 1988.