How Do I Sue Paypal?

[Jetheat]

I live in the UK and I wish to sue Paypal UK. I think they run their operations out of Dublin in Ireland.

 

Paypal is holding my money without good reason and I need to sue them to get it back.

It's not a small claims court which I need. It involves a considerable amount of money and so I need to claim through an ordinary court.

 

How do I start proceedings?

Where do I start?

 

I'd like to do it on my own without a solicitor.

 

Appreciate any suggestions.

 

JH

[Bigmac versus]

Hi Jetheat and welcome to the forum, could you elaborate a little more so people can offer you the correct advice.

[Jetheat]

Ok, here's the gist of it...

 

I was actually thinking of taking this matter to the "ordinary court" on my own.

 

I had a big launch of my product a few weeks ago and prior to the launch, I called Paypal to tell them of my upcoming launch and not to freeze my account.

They assured me they wouldn't.

 

2 days or so after the launch, that's exactly what they did.

 

Since then, I've been trying to get the limitation on my account lifted.

Initially, it was due to an increase in volume on my account. This is why they froze my account despite my early warning phone call.

 

After that, every email they sent me, they wanted more and more information.

 

They wanted:

{pasted}

1st email - Fax tracking information for the following payments received into your PayPal account.

2nd email - Fax copies of the original bills of sale or invoices referencing your purchase or acquisition of the items you are selling along with the name and telephone number of your supplier(s) for the following transactions:

3rd email - Fax copies of the original bills of sale or invoices referencing your purchase or acquisition of the items you are selling along with the name and telephone number of your supplier(s) for the following transactions (duplicate - which means they never read my reply to previous one).

4th email - Please be advised in order for your account to be fully reviewed please fax in the documentation confirming you are licensed to sell this product.

5th email - From reviewing your email, In order for your limitation to be lifted you are required to send us proof that you are licensed to sell this product, we require some documentation.

6th email - Submit a copy of an official document (business registration....) justifiying your activity.

 

After weeks of hard work, anger and frustration - just trying to please paypal and many many phone calls later, they eventually sent me this email:

 

"We have completed our review, and as you have completed all the required steps, we have restored your account."

 

3 Hours later, another department within paypal jumps on the band wagon and send me this email:

 

For your protection, we have temporarily limited access to your account. We will review this access once you have completed all the steps we have requested. You can view these steps in the Resolution Centre of your PayPal account.

 

Can you believe it, they limited my account again. This time, they wanted proof of name and address etc...

 

I had just about enough...

 

I sent them the required information and proof and suddenly I get yet another department asking for more proof. This department wanted:

A utility bill that is not older than six months (mobile telephone bills

are not acceptable)

A local council tax bill for the current year

A bank, Building Society or Credit Union statement that is not older than

six months and shows your current address and recent transaction activity

A solicitors letter confirming a recent house purchase or land registry

confirmation of your address.

 

After I faxed all that information over, today I get an email from Paypal saying this:

 

"From review of your account I can see that your account has been limited and this is why you unable to process any payments.

 

The PayPal User Agreement states that PayPal, at its sole discretion, reserves the right to limit an account for any violation of the User Agreement, including the Acceptable Use Policy. Under the Acceptable Use Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or receive payments that support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other "get rich quick" schemes, or certain multi-level marketing programs.

...

We are hereby notifying you that, after a recent review of your account activity, it has been determined that you are in violation of PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy regarding your sales. Therefore, your account has been permanently limited.

...

When PayPal permanently limits an account due to an Acceptable Use Policy violation, it is the company's policy to hold the funds for a period of 180 days. Once the 180-day timeframe has elapsed, PayPal will release any remaining balance via bank transfer. Please log in to your PayPal account and verify that your account information is accurate, as PayPal cannot be held responsible for incorrect information provided by the account holder."

 

Can you believe it?

 

After weeks of sending them every single thing they asked for and complying with every request and after a number of long waited phone calls, I receive an account closure email.

 

I didn't break any of their policies and I've been selling my products through Paypal for years. They have even checked my site in the past. I sell Forex training products (download and physical).

There's no way I even get close to operating a "Get Rich Quick Scheme".

 

At this stage, I don't care if they close my account because I don't really want to deal with them anymore.

But right now, my priority is to get my money out of there instead of waiting 6 months.

 

I need to know where to start in order to sue Paypal and I need to know if I can do it locally without a lawyer.

 

JH

[Jetheat]

No help on this?

 

JH

[freakyleaky]

I don't think that you will have much sucsess as Paypal seem to cover their backs very well on the legal side. I think they state in their t&c's that they have the right to close an account at any time without having to give a reason, but I will double check for you and get back with any info I can find.

[Jetheat]

Thanks.

I look forward to some info as I need to get my money as soon as I can.

 

Thanks,

 

JH

[jaxads]

Hi Jetheat -- good luck with paypal. My experiences with them have been a nightmare too. They do seem to be a law unto themselves!!

[booda31]

Hi there,

 

am in similar boat, they have limited my account permanently meaning no access to funds of £400+. To make it worse some payments are in a status of hold, where paypal release the payment if the buyer gives positive feedback, but how can you get positive feedback if they have suspended your ebay account and sent all your customers an email saying you are a fraud. This is all done to keep as much money in their coffers as possible, regardless if you are seller or buyer.

 

Anyway, do not listen to what paypal tell you they are regulated by both the FSA and FoS, this is the help I got from another site:

 

Best to write to this address and follow it up by complaining to the FOS

 

PayPal (Europe) Limited

Hotham House

1 Heron Square

Richmond Upon Thames

TW9 1EJ

United Kingdom

 

PayPal (Europe) Ltd is regulated by the Financial Services Authority in the United Kingdom as an electronic money institution. It is registered in England and Wales under the number 4056498. Its registered office is Hotham House, 1 Heron Square, Richmond Upon Thames TW9 1EJ, United Kingdom. The PayPal FSA Register Number is: 226056.

 

Complaints

 

You can also call our Service Centre for immediate concerns.

 

If you are not satisfied with our services, you can use the free Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

You can obtain information outlining the role of the Ombudsman by writing to: The Office of the Financial Ombudsman Service, South Quay Plaza, 183 Marsh Wall, London E14 9SR, United Kingdom. http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk

 

[email protected] is email for vice president, responsible for Paypal europe.

 

I have sent my letter to PayPal first, although the FoS will take up comlaints on your behalf.

 

If you wanted to sue, that is the address to send legal paperwork to.

[booda31]

Got my account restored today, but am pursuing for damages. They act completely unlawfully, then when they realise you are not going to take it, they change their minds = too little too late, especially as they had emailed all my ebay customers telling them I was high risk, how can this sort of damage be reversed?

 

Keep hammering them with emails, and do not give up, thats what they want you to do.

[MARTIN3030]

Thread moved

[BillyS]

Or an even better idea use Google checkout where possible. Paypal are a joke when it comes to handling disputes charging over the top fees and resolving queries with what appears to be little logic. Ah yes, eBay don't allow Google Checkout as it is an unsafe payment method , is that restriction of trade ?

[booda31]

I don't think you can trade on ebay without offering paypal at the minimum, might be wrong, hope so, I agree it seems to be a monopoly Ebay and Paypal and their policies.

[badboy09]

i am in process of taking paypal to court also this link might be of some assistance to you :

Finally it's here. My Free Guide to Removing Paypal account Limitations! - iWasSuspendedFromEbay

 

this will give u all info u need to know

hope it helps

[andydd]

Or an even better idea use Google checkout where possible. Paypal are a joke when it comes to handling disputes charging over the top fees and resolving queries with what appears to be little logic. Ah yes, eBay don't allow Google Checkout as it is an unsafe payment method , is that restriction of trade ?

 

I do believe that in Australia that the government did indeed decide it was restriction of trade.

[nick20045]

I sent some money to a friend of mine abroad using paypal.

 

He got back to me telling me that they wanted a load of stuff as they were investigating money laundry. He also told me not to worry he will sort it out.

 

He sent them a scan copy of his warrant card. He is a Chief Police Inspector. :lol:

 

Apparently they apologised and cleared the funds. LOL.

[Coactum]

Did you use PayPal to receive payments that support pyramid or ponzi schemes, matrix programs, other "get rich quick" schemes? If so, I'd say they are correct. However, if they are mistaken then you do indeed seem to have a case.

[spitfire650]

Glad to hear you got your account freed up, particularly if your product launch included affiliates who would still want paying.

 

I had a similar experience a couple of years ago over a substantial sum with Paypal which they advised would be released after 180 days. After informing the purchasers that their goods would be delayed 6 months since that was how long Paypal were going to take to process payment and a few complaints were received they quickly reviewed this and released the money.

 

I found this was a common practice and there are websites set up solely for Paypal complaints.

 

Paypal are useless on PL's, you are better getting a proper merchant account with your bank to process credit card payments. They also give the seller no support if the customer disputes the transaction.

[Coactum]

I think you may have mistaken posts spitfire650. If was booda31 who has resolved his issue rather than Jetheat who started this thread

[nick20045]

i am in process of taking paypal to court also this link might be of some assistance to you :

Finally it's here. My Free Guide to Removing Paypal account Limitations! - iWasSuspendedFromEbay

 

this will give u all info u need to know

hope it helps

I would not trust that guide very much. As soon as I read EU Anti Money Laundering Requirement – My research shows nothing in this legislation that requires any company to freeze accounts.

 

A bank upon suspicion of money laundering has to make an application to the appropriate Goverment Authority before it can release the funds.

 

I was reading some law and read that. Sorry do not have a link to the High Court Appeal case.

[andydd]

I would not trust that guide very much. As soon as I read EU Anti Money Laundering Requirement – My research shows nothing in this legislation that requires any company to freeze accounts.

 

A bank upon suspicion of money laundering has to make an application to the appropriate Goverment Authority before it can release the funds.

 

I was reading some law and read that. Sorry do not have a link to the High Court Appeal case.

 

Although Paypal by there own definition do not fall under the legislation covering banks.

 

I think many points in the guide make sense, basically it would appear to come down to threatening legal action, if for example Paypal do GENUINELLY believe that you are somehow involved in money laundering (or any other valid reason for freezing your money) then they would of course defend court action but it would appear that they do not in most cases which makes you question their motives for freezing money in the first place.

 

How many of us have ever suddenly been told by our bank they they will freeze our money for 6 months ?!. Its not a situation i have ever heard of, but it is a regular occurence for many Paypal cxustomers.

 

Andy

[nick20045]

Although Paypal by there own definition do not fall under the legislation covering banks.

 

I think many points in the guide make sense, basically it would appear to come down to threatening legal action, if for example Paypal do GENUINELLY believe that you are somehow involved in money laundering (or any other valid reason for freezing your money) then they would of course defend court action but it would appear that they do not in most cases which makes you question their motives for freezing money in the first place.

 

How many of us have ever suddenly been told by our bank they they will freeze our money for 6 months ?!. Its not a situation i have ever heard of, but it is a regular occurence for many Paypal cxustomers.

 

Andy

Does paypal fall under the banking institution? Try and pay for something through paypal using your credit card. Now let us imagine something happens and you contact your bank to implement credit card safeguards.

 

See what your bank will tell you.

 

Do not get me wrong. I think PayPal are crap. I have had my fair share of arguments with them. Last one was a promotional code from e bay. I was not interested but a friend of mine wanted something so I used the code for him. Did the checkout on e bay. Discount given. So my mate gave me the money as per after the discount. Went to PayPal to pay. The discount vanished and was charged the full amount. Two edged sword. Either I do not pay so I get a strike on e bay or I pay but it is full amount. You want to see the stupid and utter ridiculous e mails I got from PayPal??? And I do not think they are actually based in Ireland. The last time I called them the accent sounded more like a Swiss accent. Definetely not an Irish accent.

 

Case law in respect of money laundering Shah & Anor v HSBC Private Bank (UK) Ltd. [2009] EWHC 79 (QB) (26 January 2009)

[Coactum]

I agree that it is not Ireland. Loooked through some correspondance I've had with them and found this:

 

PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A.

Société en Commandite par Actions

Registered Office: 5th Floor 22-24 Boulevard Royal L-2449, Luxembourg

RCS Luxembourg B 118 349

[andydd]

Paypal are based in Luxumbourg and operate under EU law but not the UK laws and regs related to banking, which is why they are in a grey area.

 

They have offices in Ireland and UK too though.

 

PayPal is an e-commerce business allowing payments and money transfers to be made through the Internet. PayPal serves as an electronic alternative to traditional paper methods such as checks and money orders.

 

In Europe, PayPal is registered as a bank in Luxembourg under the legal name PayPal (Europe) Sarl et Cie SCA, a company regulated centrally by the Luxembourg bank authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF)[37] (note that all of the company's European accounts were transferred to the PayPal's bank in Luxembourg on July 2, 2007.[38]) Prior to this move, PayPal had been registered in the UK as Paypal (Europe) Ltd, an entity which was licensed as an Electronic Money Issuer with the UK's Financial Services Authority (FSA) from 2004. This ceased in 2007, when the company moved to Luxembourg,[39][40] however the Luxembourg entity is still regulated by the FSA, as it is an entity from the European Economic Area which conducts regulated activities in the UK.[41]

 

From Wikipedia

[andydd]

Does paypal fall under the banking institution? Try and pay for something through paypal using your credit card. Now let us imagine something happens and you contact your bank to implement credit card safeguards.

 

See what your bank will tell you.

 

Do not get me wrong. I think PayPal are crap. I have had my fair share of arguments with them. Last one was a promotional code from e bay. I was not interested but a friend of mine wanted something so I used the code for him. Did the checkout on e bay. Discount given. So my mate gave me the money as per after the discount. Went to PayPal to pay. The discount vanished and was charged the full amount. Two edged sword. Either I do not pay so I get a strike on e bay or I pay but it is full amount. You want to see the stupid and utter ridiculous e mails I got from PayPal??? And I do not think they are actually based in Ireland. The last time I called them the accent sounded more like a Swiss accent. Definetely not an Irish accent.

 

Case law in respect of money laundering Shah & Anor v HSBC Private Bank (UK) Ltd. [2009] EWHC 79 (QB) (26 January 2009)

 

 

Ha..Ive just had to email them 5 times to get a simple request sorted. This is my fave response !..

 

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.

Thank you for the email and you are welcome! We are pleased to have you as a member of the PayPal community. If you need assistance in the future, you can contact customer service by email by clicking "Contact Us" at the bottom of any PayPal page. Thank you for using PayPal!

It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.

Sincerely,

Jenny

 

Note they didnt answer anything !..Muppets !

 

Andy

[deltics]

I bought something off ebay and the seller sent me a paypal payment request to make sure i dont get a refund when paying this way, the seller sent the goods and they were damaged, paypal said sorry no refund as you never bought the item off ebay as we have no record, so buyers beware never pay for your items this way,anyway i lost my money even though i told paypal i left feedback, they say i bought the item not on ebay but outside ebay,even when you show them the proof that you left feedback they ignore the facts, i mean how do you leave feedback for something you have never purchased on ebay, impossible but paypal said NO REFUND we dont cover damaged items.so ive told paypal im suing them and told ebay i will pay my fees except the money i was conned for using ebay, so where do i send the court papers to sue paypal, thanks

 

AND a final point here

i have now opened a new auction site and have set up a new payment system to rival paypal,you wont be forced to use my payment system and sellers will be able to leave negative feedback for the fraudsters who are now conning as many as possible on ebay,they send back similar items you sold them to get refunds,they get your cash and you get back your items smashed or damaged,no matter how much you mark your goods paypal wont believe you,they always believe the fraudsters

Edited May 19, 2010 by deltics