Paying too much???

[Jim J]

Hi all,

 

I've trawled for an hour trying to find an answer to my query, so here goes:

 

I owed about £500 to the next directory, but after me and the ex split up, I wasn't passed any of the monthly statemants from her, and now 6 months on, I've got a letter from a debt collection agency.

 

I spoke to them last night, Moorcroft I think, and I asked if I could spread the payments over about 6 months. The lad I spoke to was a complete arse, and he said I could only pay half now, and half next month. I said I'd have to check funds available, and call him back tonight. This is when he really got on my nerves. He said I needed to clarify that i would be paying half of the debt tonight, as I was being too vague about it, and if i wasn't more definite that I would be paying tonight, he couldn't stop the CCJ being raised against me.

 

I paid £50 last night, and I have the funds to pay another £200 tonight, but its not ideal. Where do I stand on my rights on how much I can pay back, without them logging a CCJ against me.

 

Any help this afternoon would be appreciated

 

Cheers

 

Jim.

[maggieboo]

you should only ever pay what you can afford and get proof from them that you do actually owe the money. send a CCA request with a £1 postal order, you will find the letter in the templates section.

 

DCA's always threaten court and try and make you pay too much. even if it did get to court, the court wouldn't make you pay more than you can afford.

[Jim J]

Thanks for the quick reply Maggieboo, I have no doubt about the amount which is owed, I just dont want any CCJs against my name.

 

Now here is me being stupid, when is a CCJ applied to you?

 

If I ring them tonight and offer to pay £100 a month for 5 months, can they reject my offer and start the court proceedings?

[saintly_1]

Wouldnt look good in court if they rejected a reasonable offer to repay would it especially if you sent the offer in writing.

 

The general advice is never talk to them on the phone keep all communication in writing

[oneofakind]

They can't 'log' a CCJ against you. It takes months to go through the court procedures, by which time you would probably have paid off the bulk of the amount due.

 

I'd send them a monthly payment of £50, if you're happy paying that much. I very much doubt that they'd send it back!

 

It's good practice NEVER to talk to these numpties on the phone; avoids all the aggravation you had last night. you are within your rights to insist that all communication is in writing.

 

Also, if they are collecting on behalf of Next, it is a breach of the OFT guidelines if they do not refer your offer to their client. Similarly, they are in breach if they try to mislead or bully you into paying an unreasonable amount. This bullying very often happens on the phone, where, of course, there is no record of what is said (don't believe they are recording, even if they tell you so!)

 

[Jim J]

Thanks for the replies, so in short:

 

Dont ring them tonight to pay anything, as I made a payment last night over the phone.

Send them a letter explaining I wish all correspondance to be done via letters, and that I will be making a regular monthly payment of £50 to clear the outstanding debt.

[oneofakind]

Yup. Let them respond to that in writing. One thing's for sure, if you send them money, they won't be sending it back!

 

Just be clear that the phone monkey you spoke to was talking through his a**e, (they all do - I wonder if they have special chairs, or special headsets with a very long boom mic.....) and nothing he said has any validity whatsoever.

 

Oh, and don't offer to pay by Direct Debit - this allows them to take 'variable' amounts out of your account. you wouldn't want that now, would you! Standing orders are fine.

 

[Mrsmancmonkey]

I would still double check that they are legally entitled to collect the monies and that the amount outstanding is the correct amount they are supposed to be collecting....

 

This is achieved by requesting a copy of the Signed, Executed Credit Agreement via a Consumer Credit Act (CCA) request.

There is a template letter to be found here: Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner

Letter N.

Is it important to start the letter:

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY in Big Bold letters.

 

It is best to send this request via recorded/special delivery as there are some inportant deadlines to observe.

 

After 12 WORKING days the "debt" is in default and stays that way until the request is complied with.

If a FURTHER month passes then the DCA has committed a summary criminal offence and the matter should be referred to Trading Standards for action once the DCA continues to demand payment.

[Jim J]

Just another quick question, as I made a payment to Moorcroft with my debit card last week, could they try to take more payments with the card details i gave them?

[Curlyben]

Yes they could, although that would be unlawful as you haven't authorised it.

 

Now if this was me, I would report the card lost and get a new one, would stop anything untoward happening.

[tiglet]

I agree with CB - it seems to ahppen a lot that as soon as they ahve your card details, they take more money, so i would be careful.

[Jim J]

Well I requested a copy of my credit agreement, and today I have recieved a letter back saying:

 

Dear Mr J

 

Further to your recent correspondence, I write to confirm that we require a monthly repayment proposal you can afford and maintain to enable us to assist you further

 

Yours sincerely

 

********

 

Now that to me sounds like they cant provide the credit agreement, and are hoping I'll settle with making a small monthly payment.

 

Any advice for my next step?

 

Cheers

 

Jim

[Edz11]

when did you send off the CCA request?

[Jim J]

Last Monday

[oneofakind]

WAIT until they've had their 12 days. You do NOTHING until they're in default.

 

They can NOT impose conditions on the supply of a CCA: it's your legal right to request one at any time. You have the basis of a serious complaint right there.

[Jim J]

I've now recieved a letter as follows:

 

Dear Mr J

 

I write to confirm that our client (Next Directory) has been unable to supply a signed credit agreement for you. We have therefore returned the payment you have made. (£1 postal order)

 

we accept that under the Section 127 (3) of the consumer credit act 1974 this debt is therefore unenforceable via a court order. We must inform you however that the account still remains outstanding.

 

It is our understanding that the goods which have been charged to your account have been ordered by and delivered to you. We can confirm therefore that a default remains in relation to this account and would remind you that making payment to clear the balance may assist in relation to your credit history.

 

Please confirm that you accept that goods were ordered and recieved and let us have your settlement proposals.

 

 

Yours sincerely..........

 

 

 

So as I understand it, I am not obliged to pay the outstanding balance, but it will benefit my credit rating if i do.

 

Do I need to reply to them if I dont intend to make any payments?

 

Cheers

 

jim.

[sillygirl1]

If the account was in your ex's name as well as yours do you know if she is being chased as well? Has she made any payment... perhaps the next move is SARing them to get a copy of ALL payments made on the account (not just those in your name)

[Jim J]

No, it was just in my name

[tiglet]

The account should show all payments on the account anyway.

 

Obligation is not really the point here - they have admitted that they do not have the means to legally enforce this debt.

 

You could sue this as a bargaining tool to have the default removed and a reduced payment in full and final settlement, but they will not necessarily accept this and if they do, i would get it in writing before paying anything.

 

Otherwise, they can keep sending letters/phoning/send a debt collector round etc (which, of course, are actually pretty easily dealt with), but cannot get a CCJ as long as you turn up and defend.

[Jim J]

Well I've now recieved a letter from Northampton court, saying that Next are claiming the outstanding balance of £453, plus a court fee of £30, and solicitor's costs of £50, d'oh.

 

Got the options of admitting all the amount claimed, only part of the amount claimed, or I can dispute it.

 

Is it worth disputing as NEXT cant provide a signed CCA?

[Blossomandebony]

'we accept that under the Section 127 (3) of the consumer credit act 1974 this debt is therefore unenforceable via a court order.'

Hi, Jim,

In post 16 you quoted the above - it is an admittance by Next that they can't enforce the debt in court!!!

Why on earth they are taking this to court beats me, when they have told you they know they can't win!

As long as you have this letter to produce in court I can't see how you can lose, to be honest. In fact I'd apply to get their claim struck out as an abuse of process, with an order for watsed costs, on the basis of them them having no chance of success!

Personally I would not admit any of the debt and fight this all the way . . you will find that there are lots of people on this site who will guide you through the process of defending a claim.

BAE

[Jim J]

Its very daunting. The reply back in post 16 was from the debt collection agency, looks like they've passed the debt back to next, and they've just gone for the court option.

[Edz11]

Jim - you won't get many replies as everyone with any experience on here will have stopped reading when they said they couldn't supply an agreement (I nearly did). That means "case over" normally.

 

You tick the defend all box. In the defence space you say on what date you requested the CCA and that it was a valid request under Section 78(?) and that you enclosed the statutory fee.

 

The quote the date of their reply and the section that they have said we can't find the agreement and accept it's uneforceable under S127(3) etc.

 

Say that the claimant has accepted that their claim has no basis and ask that it be struck out. Say that you wish to apply for wasted costs.

 

I can't see this as anything more than a cock up.

[Blossomandebony]

Keep us updated, whatever you decide, Jim.

 

Cheers,

 

BAE:)