Landlord fraud!!!

[thejanegirl]

Ok to cut along story short, 4 of us shared a house, we paid £850 deposit, we moved out in July this year, had no contact from landlord despite us given our new address in 3 letter all recorded post (returned keys,request for money,LBA) ended up going down the MCOL route, landlord wasted time then submitted and defence that we gave no forwarding address and she had kept the deposit because of alleged damage we had caused, despite having no inventory at all.

 

this is were it starts.

 

Part of her defence is a survey she had done by carried out by a company call "House doctor" who are contractors for insurance company's.

 

Today I gave House Doctor a call to question their survey and to see what the quote had been. After a bit questioning the guy reveled that they never ended up doing any work and that it had been a bit odd.

She had asked them to do a survey for her, which they did, then they got a call from her insurance company 2 weeks later asking them to do a survey, he explain to them that they had done one, which they expected, 2 weeks ago he got a call from her insurance company to say that she had excepted cash and was doing the work herself.

 

Now i've been in the house since and the work has not been done.

She has also kept our deposit to cover the cost of the alleged damage we did.

This now meaning she has claimed money after already being paid (our deposit) as far as she is concerned. At this point guy from House Doctor starts to see it my way, she committed insurance fraud not only for not doing the work claimed for, but by claiming after taking our deposit.

 

He would not tell me who the insurance company is, but said he would pass my number on as he had to inform them of this.

 

Can anyone confirm that she has committed fraud? should I inform the court of what I have found out or wait until in court?

[Olly300]

She has committed fraud if she has done what you said.

 

Have you got anything in writing? Do you have the guy's full address details? Courts will not deal with hearsay so to use it in court you need to either get something in writing from the guy, or write a letter to the guy and send it via recorded delivery to his address stating everything that occurred. Then keep a copy of the letter, recorded delivery receipt and any reply to use in court.

[Ed999]

If an insurance fraud has been committed, the insurance company will notify the police and arrange for the appropriate prosecution of the landlord.

 

But that will not get you your money back, because an insurance fraud is a quite seperate matter, legally speaking.

 

Therefore read this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/landlords-tenants/117572-unfair-deposit-deductions.html

 

 

 

Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[thejanegirl]

If an insurance fraud has been committed, the insurance company will notify the police and arrange for the appropriate prosecution of the landlord.

 

But that will not get you your money back, because an insurance fraud is a quite seperate matter, legally speaking.

 

 

Am not worried about getting our deposit back, as the golden rule says "If there is no initial inventory, the landlord has no grounds for withholding the deposit"

 

Her defence is either irrelevant to bond deductions or can be disproved.

 

Its just nice to know after all the hassle we have had with her and her boyfriend they have ended up dropping them self in the sh*t

[Aequitas]

...the golden rule says "If there is no initial inventory, the landlord has no grounds for withholding the deposit"

I think it is rather a "silver" rule. There is a widespread belief that an agreed inventory is essential for a landlord to make a claim for lost or damaged items; whilst it may be the best evidence, it is not the only evidence available.

In practice of course a landlord is going to have difficulty in proving minor damage or that there were eight, not six, dinner plates if there is no record. However, in the case of major damage or the tenant clearing out half the contents, the landlord can give oral evidence which could be backed up by oral evidence from one or more third parties. As in any civil case, the court will decide the matter on the balance of probabilities (or if you prefer, who is believed).

[Olly300]

...the golden rule says "If there is no initial inventory, the landlord has no grounds for withholding the deposit"

 

I think it is rather a "silver" rule. There is a widespread belief that an agreed inventory is essential for a landlord to make a claim for lost or damaged items; whilst it may be the best evidence, it is not the only evidence available.

 

Have to agree with that.

 

People seem to forget that tenancy agreements can be verbal in England and Wales therefore it would be reasonable to expect that not every single thing will be documented at all or properly.

 

My suggestion to get documentation is from previous experience. If you gather enought evidence to show what the other person is saying is an extremely edited version of the events, then as you have to give the other side a copy of your documentation before you go into the court you may find that the other side will decide to settle.

[chas629327]

how did you get back into the house after you returned the keys?

[thejanegirl]

how did you get back into the house after you returned the keys?

 

I went to a party there with my mate from next door.

[thejanegirl]

UPDATE:

 

The House Doctor has now denied having a conversation and is now claiming not to have done a survey or quotation of the condition we were ment to have left the house in, now they claim only to have reassessed damage from a dishwasher flood 10 months ago :-?

This is mainly because they dont want to used as her defence in court.

 

Am sure this can only help my case.

 

(I've also rang the Insurance Fraud Bureau and gave them all the information I had.)

[Olly300]

Get what the housedoctor says in writing.

 

Get a written statement from your mate stating how you were allowed back into the house to see the condition of it.

 

Then use all the statements in court.

[thejanegirl]

I've sent the house doctor a letter requesting them to put in writing what they have done etc, but when I rang them the yesterday the guy was refused point blank claiming the any work he has done is between the landlord,the insurance company and them and to give me information was a breach of the DPA.

 

My mate from next door is providing a statement anyway because i had him witness the condition of the house and me lock the doors and post the keys as the landlord did not turn up to hand back the house

[Olly300]

If you are sure the House Doctor can't be used by the landlord as defence then leave it.

[Ed999]

Congratulations. You've won an important victory, by frightening off the landlord's main witness.

 

Now follow it up hard, by threatening to sue for the deposit. Fire off your letter before action (LBA) while you've got the landlord at a psychological disadvantage.

 

See this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/landlords-tenants/117572-unfair-deposit-deductions.html

 

 

 

Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[thejanegirl]

Congratulations. You've won an important victory, by frightening off the landlord's main witness.

 

Now follow it up hard, by threatening to sue for the deposit. Fire off your letter before action (LBA) while you've got the landlord at a psychological disadvantage.

 

 

We have all ready done all the pre court stages and now at the point of going to court on the 29th November.

[Ed999]

Oh dear. So now you finally tell us that what you've actually been doing is in the course of an on-going court case!

 

Did you contact the other party's expert witness because of a direction made by the court? If not, contacting him could amount to contempt of court.

 

 

 

Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[thejanegirl]

Oh dear. So now you finally tell us that what you've actually been doing is in the course of an on-going court case!

No, my 1st post clearly states " we ended up going down the MCOL route, landlord wasted time and then submitted a defence "

indicating court action was under way

 

Oh dear. So now you finally tell us that what you've actually been doing is in the course of an on-going court case!

Did you contact the other party's expert witness because of a direction made by the court? If not, contacting him could amount to contempt of court.

 

The company "The House Doctor" has not been called as an expert witness, She has only submitted a report done by them as her defence response to our claim. We have to submit all witness statements this week, but "The House Doctor" are refusing to give any statements as they have rightly pointed out that their survey only states damage when they visited the property and can not prove when the damage was done or who by.

[Ed999]

I'm sorry but I don't know what the phrase "we ended up going down the MCOL route" means.

 

If the landlord is relying on the report of an expert, as part of his/her case, then the expert will be called to give evidence at the hearing, and any report is accordingly an expert report.

 

The house doctor's report is probably capable of standing as evidence on its own account, as an expert's report, if it has already been disclosed to you.

 

You should not contact the other party's expert, unless the court gives a direction to that effect. It could be seen as tampering with the evidence. The proper course is to cross-examine the expert at the hearing.

 

 

 

Advice & opinions on this forum are offered informally, without any assumption of liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified and insured professional if you have any doubts.

[demon_x_slash]

I'm sorry but I don't know what the phrase "we ended up going down the MCOL route" means.

 

MCOL - Money Claim OnLine.

[Ed999]

Thanks. I didn't know it was being referred to as "MCOL" now!

 

I've come across it, though this is the first time I've come across someone who's actually used it.