Penny v Egg

[pennypenny]

After being successful claiming back MBNA charges and various bank charges I have decided to start a claim for my OH's Egg credit Card charges.

I have just printed off the SAR and am about to send it off but I thought I would ask if they require any ID to be sent with it because I needed it for my MBNA claim and it really slowed things down cos they waited the full 40 days then informed me they needed ID and in the end it took about 70 days before I received my statements.

Just thought I would ask to save myself a lot of time and hassle.

Also, are they paying up quite easily or stringing it out till the court claim?

Thanks for any advice,

penny:)

[Mistermind]

Penny,

 

Egg does require photocopy of passport or drivers licence, plus 2 original utility bills (returned). You can have a list of penalty charges only for £5 within days or a comprehensive one-inch pile of paper for £10 which can take 40 days. Inclusion of cheque will speed up the response.

 

 

Egg used to pay without stalling or waiting for legal cohercion, but this admirable practice has noticeably slowed down, in some case stopping, since the announcement of the test case at end of July. For history of winning Egg cases see V-E Day: Victory over Egg 5

 

 

The OFT bank penalty charges test case hearing is expected (as per OFT) "at the beginning of 2008". When a High Court judge pronounces a lawful penalty charge to be £XX, I would be surprised if this figure has no bearing on credit card reclaim hearings in Small Claims Court -- where the card does defend. Although one hearing is for banks and the other for cards, judges have repeatedly said they seek consistency not lottery of verdict. Imho it is hard to see how Small Claims judges would have any appetitite to substantively deviate from the High Court figure following the cause celebre. Small Claims judges could of course develop an appetite for a separate verdict for credit cards, staying hearings if another test case is in the offing.

 

The High Court verdict will put an end to 100% refund of bank penalty charges. As this hearing draws ever closer --

 

OFT press release 15OCT2007:

 

"8. When will the test case take place?

There is a trial window between January 14 and February 28 2008 within which the trial will take place. We expect it to last between eight and fifteen days.

 

10. Does the test case have any read across to credit card default charges?

The present case concerns only whether banks' charges for unauthorised overdrafts on personal current accounts are subject to the test of fairness in the UTCCRs and, if they are, the case may continue in order to determine whether those charges are unfair under the UTCCRs."

 

managements of cards such as Egg will realise they only need to stall a few weeks and then they will be able to refund less retrospective charges to claimants, or even to refund nothing at all, bearing in mind the OFT set a £16 intervention threshold for Egg on 5th April 2006, and the possibility of a comparable figure adjudicated by High Court.

 

 

Imho therefore, claimants who want 100% refund of charges are in a race against time. For OFT press release on 15OCT2007, see

 

Information about the test case?

 

PS. To encourage Egg onto the path of virtue you might consider informing Egg that if they refuse to refund on the strength of your letter in plain English, you are minded to take your case to the FOS, who will immediately charge Egg a fee of £360 win lose or draw.

[pennypenny]

After Egg closed hubbys account earlier this year I thought I would finally get round to claiming the charges back.

I sent the SAR on 20th June and received the statements yesterday which I have to say I thought was quite quick, they didnt ask for ID either and I received full statements.

I have added the charges up and they come to just under £300, so I need to work out the interest and then its off with the prelim. At the moment I am paying 29.9 % interest but have not always been paying that much so should I work it out at a smaller amount? Also I would like to receive payment by cheque but still have a balance on my card, what are the chances of getting a cheque off them?

Thanks:)

Penny

[steven4064]

What is the balance on the card because they do have a right to offset your claim against the balance. Having said that, I believe there are cases of people getting a cheque nonetheless by just refusing to settle until they do. A bit risky though.

[Mistermind]

Not updated this thread in ages, but Egg capitulated today, just under £1000 refunded.

 

Interestingly, I claimed interest at 16.9% on my charges, simply based on the date of the charge. This wasn't quite right as I hadn't paid interest on the charges during periods when the account balance was zero. I couldn't do this as a number of charges on my account didn't have values assigned to them, so I couldn't calculate my balance each month.

 

Egg have calculated the interest properly for me and then refunded that too. Very good of them.

 

I myself would not reclaim debit interest if in any month there was no debit interest levied, e.g. the account had near zero balance. Precise calculation of debit interest compounded monthly on penatly charges is not simple, as cardholder monthly payments go to pay off different debit items in a pre-set order described in the T&C, e.g. cash advances wiped out first.

 

Egg is so cooperative these days that they redid the arithmetic for Paul above and refunded in short order, so no need to get your computations 100% right, only a computer using known formulae can do that.

[pennypenny]

Thanks for your replies.

The balance on the card is just over £3000 so I will try requesting a cheque, there is no harm in asking, if it gets took off the balance then at least thats less I owe them. Would rather have the money in my pocket though.

I have worked the interest out and it nearly doubles my claim so I am off to prepare my prelim.

Penny

[Mistermind]

I believe if Egg agree to pay yourself instead of into your card, then rather than the less secure option of sending a cheque they would prefer to transfer money into the bank account in your own name which you nominate.

 

Good luck Penny!

[steven4064]

Keep us postd, we'll be here to help

[pennypenny]

Thanks Mistermind and Steven:)

Prelim is in the post as we speak, sent today recorded delivery, so I shall wait for their reply.

Penny

[Mistermind]

A pound to a penny they will pay Tuppence.

[pennypenny]

A pound to a penny they will pay Tuppence.

Ha, tuppence, thats about all they will offer me.

 

My prelim was delivered and signed for this morning so the 2 week count down is on.

 

Penny

[Mistermind]

Pennypenny, Eggegg no longer has the appetite to resist garden variety charges refunds. Claimants beyond count have received full refunds, many with interest as requested, and many within the week to the amount of £1,000, after just a proven template letter or two in plain English. All this has been reported continuously on V-E Day thread.

 

So if Egg stiffens and stalls, let us know. The Queen's English can in cases have effect faster than the law.

[pennypenny]

I've had a reply already, I must say Egg are pretty quick at replying. They are offering me no money though:-(

The basic jist of their letter is The Credit Card Agreement with Egg Banking Plc clearly states that charges will be added to my account if I exceed my credit limit or fail to make contractual payments. Also Egg does not believe that the terms and conditions of the agreement are in any way unlawful of unfair. They go on about the cost of computer systems and staff and other necessary costs and their charges represent a genuine pre-estimate of the loss caused to egg by customers who break the terms of their aggreement:rolleyes:.

And another load of rubbish in the middle, but I am sure you get the idea.

So I shall look for a reply to that and see if I can get them to pay up.

Penny:)

[Mistermind]

Penny, the reply you received came promptly because it was a computerised template letter. If you check against some of the initial responses from Egg, as listed in V-E Day thread, you will find the text to be identical -- so it was not targeted at you.

 

This procedure has become a ritualised choreographed dance, as one dancer goes forwards another goes backwards. Egg staff have been instructed to go through the motions just in case they succeed in bamboozling innocents. If you completely ignore the adverse letter, but adapt the template letter below to your own particulars and send same, then Egg's next response is likely to be -> ££££. The less you deviate from the template the better, as that is a signal that you know that they know that you know that they know how it will end, so no point pussyfooting any more.

 

Good luck!

 

03 weeks - 22 JAN 2008 - WINNING TEMPLATE LETTER - andrew_nwide - WON!! Egg Smashed £900

Edited July 9, 2008 by Mistermind
typo

[pennypenny]

Thanks again Mistermind,

I shall adapt the template letter, I will obviously have to leave the parts out that says I decline their offer as they have not offered me anything yet? And can I send that now before I send the LBA in 2 weeks time or do I wait and combine it with the LBA?

Thanks again for your help:)

Penny

[Mistermind]

01 weeks - 30 APR 2007 - WINNING TEMPLATE LETTER - Eggmail then 2-day payout - moc1982 v Egg

 

That was the first variant of the winning letter. Egg management know the text by heart now. The above simpler variant will need less adaptation. Over 30 senders of this template reported a quick result, with none disappointed, so this route is proven to work faster than the legals.

 

If Egg have no appetite for spending more money and wasting staff time, least of all going to court, they will not split hairs with your text. Ignore their standard "hard to get" letter. No need to wait. This is the scripted one-two, the scripted slow-slow-quickquick-slow, proven many times.

 

[pennypenny]

Thanks, will do that today. Could I send it through the secure message service on my online account, or would it be best to send a letter, or both?

[Mistermind]

Penny, no harm investing in 66(?) namesakes of yours, and sending both ways, each message referring to the other. It is peak holiday season now with many staff away, and whichever Eggployee is still awake and reads the message first will pass it onto the authorising manager.

 

Hope the Pimms will soon be on you. :grin:

[pennypenny]

Thanks for the speedy reply, I am in the process of typing the letter now. I will send it by both letter and secure mail just to be sure:)

[pennypenny]

Spot on as usual Mistermind, received a reply to my egg secure message on the website on Friday saying they will pass my message on and I will hear from them shortly. There's no reply as yet though. Also sent a copy by post on saturday, So I wonder how long it will take them to reply???

[Mistermind]

So many happy endings have been reported, some before 7 eggs have been boiled for breakfast, why would yours be any different? The kettle boils faster though, when you go off and do something else......

 

The teas are on Penny when she wins. Mine's F and M Royal tea, with milk and no sugar (sweet enough you see). :grin:

[pennypenny]

Well, the winning template letter wasnt so lucky for me. I received a reply off them by letter offering me just £24.00, which is the difference between the £16.00 and £20.00 charges, which is a lot less than what my claim is for.

Point 2 of their letter says:

You allege that these charges are a penalty. You have put forward no evidence to support this allegation and we do not accept it. As explained in our previous letter, the charges set out in the Agreement are a genuine pre-estimate of the loss caused to Egg when a customer breaks the terms of their Agreement.

and later on in the letter they say:

Should you break the terms of this Agreement again, a charge of £16.00 will be applied to your account. If you consider this to be unfair, you should close your account now. The continued use of your account will be treated as confirmation that you accept that our charges are fair.

So, this would be the account that they have already closed earlier this year:confused: Do they not remember that. They really are unbelievable:mad:

Should I just continue with the LBA or is there a witty response I could reply with?

Oh and they have also sent a part that I have to sign and return saying I accept £24.00 as full and final settlement of my complaint.

[steven4064]

File the letter and send the LBA - leave the mucking about to them

[pennypenny]

Needless to say I rejected their paltry offer of £24 and they sent another offer of the full charges but only 8% interest which brings it to about £150 less than what I am claiming. They also said they will only take it off the balance of the card which I expected them to say anyway.

So today I have sent my LBA, also rejecting that offer, in a last attempt to get the full interest out of them, if not then its off to court.

 

penny:)

[Mistermind]

In for a Penny, in for £150.With you all the way.