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    • Thing is, how do you prove a conversation  
    • So I have gone through the two CCA documents, scanned them, transferred them into PDF's but am still unable to attach them as they are too big.   So I have to give up on attaching the docs.  One is 6.73 MB, one is 5.86 MB and the other is 24.3 MB.  I am not technically minded and find it frustrating that I cannot attach them given the fact it's taken me hours to try to undertake this task, neither do I know how to reduce them, also I don't really have much spare time to get my head around tech issues.   Anyway, my elderly friend is getting more and more upset due to the high pressure of harassment he is experiencing from the two creditors in the way of tree loads of letters and daily phone calls - the calls are blocked, but I looked at his phone and one day he had 22 phone calls.    He does have mental health issues and is due to see his Mental Health provider next month.  B/Card have sent him a form and asked him to ask his psychiatrist if he will complete it.  I've had a look at this form 'Debt and Mental Health Evidence Form' and if he can get it completed it can be copied and sent to all creditors along with an I/E form, then B/Card have said they will decide what direction they will take.  The Evidence Form is not specific to any particular creditor which is great if he can get it completed.   Bearing in mind, his appointment is not until mid December, then we have Christmas and New Year, I don't think the Evidence Form and I/E will get looked at until the New Year.  I have got time before Christmas to help him complete an Income and Expenditure form, or I can ask the family to help him out, but they are more 'hands on' with dealing with his disabilities, medication and health complications, so I don't mind spending a couple of hours going through an I/E with him, also he tends to open up to me more than his family.   Should I help him complete an I/E and send it to his two creditors, or should he wait and send the Evidence Form and I/E together.  I personally think it's better to send them both together, but it's the threatening letters he keeps receiving and phone calls which are making his mental health worse.  I do my best to reassure him and would welcome opinions on what I have suggested in this post.   Thanks for all your advice.    
    • should have done that a month ago.   dx  
    • Thank you for your response BankFodder.   First of all her employer is a care home and she is a Part Time Carer.  I do not know what the company is called but would prefer not to publish it here even if I knew.   Having read through the link you provided I would tend to agree with your opinion regarding the Estoppel standard of proof especially as she is getting 50% more than she should of been expecting.  Having said that she has had this from the very start and knowing her as I do it is possible she thought this was her monthly wages!    In her everyday life she goes from hand to mouth so there is no improvement in lifestyle unless you consider her absence from Foodbanks an improvement!   I think the solution is for her to repay at the low figure that seems to be in place but to disregard the contract requiring her to pay it back before or on leaving.  Should she give notice and work four weeks how can we stop them from witholding her last months wages?    
    • Hey,   so just received an email from CRS. Saying I have to prove I cancelled...yawn. Bearing in mind this is way over a month ago I sent them a letter! shall I just block them now? Not even respond?   this is regarding gymetc and I joined their gym online...   thanks!
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BankLover_not

BankHater Business v Natwest

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Hi Bankhater

 

The stay hearing was at the beginning of this month.

 

These are the points I made to the judge regarding the stay:

 

1.The claim relates to a business account not a current account - there is no evidence to suggest the outcome of the test case will have any bearing upon business accounts

 

2. The test case is based around whether bank charges are a breach of the UTCCRs. This case does not rely on these regs as they do not apply to business consumers.

 

3. We stand to suffer financially, for what could be several years before the test case is fully concluded - with interest accruing as a result of the unlawful charges

 

4. Staying the case may cause some of the charges in our claim to extend outside the limits of the limitation act 1980, thus predjudicing our changes of succeeding with the case at a later date

 

5. The claim was filed before the OFT announcement

 

6. When it suits Natwest they wish to stay the issue of charges, yet they still wish to continue charging them in the meantime.

 

Send in your pre-court letter to the judge outlining the above. It will ensure you get everything in without worrying about saying it on the day.

Don't worry about the hearing, just have all your info in order for the judge to look at if or when he asks eg. bank statements, list of charges, your POCs, don't forget a breakdown of your costs for the hearing, time off, travel, parking etc. Even the agent they sent to represent Natwest helped us before and after in the waiting room!

 

Hope this helps

 

 

Bambers:)

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Hi All - especially Steven

 

I am so annoyed and frustrated. I did everything as we discussed with the allocation questionnaire and the court have now ordered a stay again pending the test case! - instead of strike out/hearing date or disclosure. (remenber this is a business account)

I now have to apply to have the stay lifted again - this clearly seem to be a court mistake as I have already had the stay lifted by a previous judge at the same court which was done at a hearing. I am totally at a loss as what to do next.

please can anyone advice?????

Bambers

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You could write to the court and remind them that the saty was lifted by the previous judge and all the stuff about the test cae not applying to business accounts because it only relates to the UTCCR, etc. You could even attach the OFT PoC.

 

Ask if it is a mistake. See if that does anything.


Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

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Thanks Steven, I'll try this tomorrow and let you know the result.

kind regards

Bambers

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Hi People,

 

Has anyone read the Abbey defence? It appears they go further than the 'service fee' defence. They now claim that every time you go over your overdraft (or make an Instant Overdraft Request as they now label it) you are in actual fact making an offer to the bank which the bank then decides whether to accept or not(i.e to pay the item or return it unpaid).

 

Any thoughts on this anyone?

 

TheyrCriminals

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Yes I have. on Oct 24th my account went .49p over the zero balance when I had a st/order of £30 odd presented so Abbey bounced the DD and charged me this £25 Instant Overdraft/Instant Overdraft Monthly Fee and £35 for Instant Overdraft Request fee. In other words £25 for going over the limit and £35 for bouncing a DD and I have written to ask them to explain themselves. Bloody nonsense. I actually, in fairness had the charges reversed when I complained and did a 'CAG' on them, but this new terminology is just another way of disguising the penalty and will be seen as such. Nothing has come to me to explain these changes and how they are to be interpreted.


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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/73598-dealing-cabot-101-cabot.html

 

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20492-legal-actions-explained-company.html

 

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http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/128587-info-cccs-payplan-experiences.html?highlight=Payplan

 

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Presumambly, if they 'make a diceision' then they have to have a meeting to do it. AS the meeting is about you, you have a right to the minutes under the DPA. Yeh, right! The 'decision' is taken by a computer in about 2 microseconds.


Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Guys,

 

Your missing the main point. Abbey are saying now that when you go over your overdraft, bounce a cheque or have insufficient funds to cover a direct debit yes ok the terminology for the charges they apply has changed, but also note that Abbey now say when you do go over your overdraft or bounce a cheque etc you are making an offer to them, they then decide whether to accept it or not.

 

TheyrCriminals

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And like I said, the decision is made by computer not people and cost absolutely nothing.


Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Hi Steven,

 

My concern is that whether a computer makes the decision or not is immaterial to the fact that in law Abbey are now saying the customer makes the bank an offer when he/she goes over their overdraft, or has insufficient funds to pay a direct debit etc. This therefore appears the legality of things changes.

 

TheyrCriminals

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I think all you have to do is to produce last week's T&Cs and preferrably those form a couple of years ago and compare them wit the new ones. It will be clear to everyone that they have just chanegd them to hide the fact that they are unlawful penalties. The fact that they have changed the words is irrelevant - a disguised penalty is a disguised penalty (however 'clever' the disguise).


Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Hi Guys,

 

Just to give you an update, the day before the hearing (10th December 2007) Cobbets withdrew their application for the stay to be lifted. And the court informed us we did not need to attend. We obviously put in a full written submission as to why the stay should be lifted anyway (it was a business account and fell outside the scope of the test case etc) and we have heard nothing since. Why do you reckon Cobbetss pulled out right at the last minute? And does this mean the stay won't be lifted now?

 

BankLover_not

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Sounds as though Cobbetts got cold feet TBH. Good old Cobbetts though.......... fashionably late as usual. :rolleyes: They've seen quite a few stays lifted on their business claims lately............ perhaps they're too skint to payout? ;)

 

Doesn't mean that the stay won't be lifted as this is up to the DJ (thankfully) and not Cobbetts. However, contact the court first thing Monday morning to find out what's happened - as if the stay has been lifted you'll have preparation to do to see the rest of your claim through. x :)


Can't find what you're looking for? Please have a look at Michael Browne's

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Thanks hedgey, does anybody else have any other theories why Cobbetts suddenly pulled out? Haven't seen this anywhere on this site yet.

 

P. S What does TBH mean hedgey? (Thought it might be a reference to BankHater!)

 

BankLover_not

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TBH = To be honest! ;)


Can't find what you're looking for? Please have a look at Michael Browne's

A-Z Guide

*** PLEASE NOTE ***

I do not answer queries via PM. If you send me a PM, please include a link to your thread - any advice I am able to offer will be on your thread.

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Tdoes anybody else have any other theories why Cobbetts suddenly pulled out?
All I can say is that you can be sure they haven't done it out of the goodness of their hearts or to help you :rolleyes:

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Hi

 

In response to my letter to the court about a 2nd stay being applied (although I have already attended one hearing regarding this and warded off Cobbetts application for a stay). I have now been given another hearing date for my application to have the stay (applied by the court without request from either party) lifted, so I will have to attend a virtually duplicate hearing - which seems ridiculous and cost wasting!

 

I am concerned that they may have found a way around upholding the business account stays, due to Cobbetts withdrawl from having the stay lifted in Bankhater's case.

 

Also at the last hearing the judge was of the opinion that the OFT case would have an effect on penalty charges generally and therefore would have a 'knock on' effect for all types of banking - I doubt the banks will voluntarily reduce charges on business accounts after the test case in the argument that the case only covered the UTTCRs etc!

 

Does anyone know of any really recent business stays being lifted? any advice/comment would be much appreciated.

 

Bambers:o

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