going to court help needed

[johans]

re; " when is all inclusive not all inclusive"

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/holiday-companies/111297-when-all-inclusive-not.html

 

 

 

misrepresentation of holiday: both the travel/booking agent and the holiday company have rejected my complaint on the basis that despite the deal being completed over the phone and irrespective of what the agent offered, a visit to the holiday company`s website would have conmfirmed what the limitations of the package were! and according to med hotels, a contradiction to what their agent offered!

 

i maintain that the telephone booking - made and agreed only a week before travel - totally misled us into buying a holiday on the basis of a deceitful sale - insofar as we were promised a package that was not provided!

 

we have witnesses - fellow holiday makers - who also fell foul of the same agent`s unscrupulous technique and who also arrived at the same destination to find they had`nt been provided with the arrangements they believed they had payed for!

 

what law has been breached, that i could quote as my basis for reclaiming our money, plus damages for a totally miserable holiday experience?

[johans]

has no one took a holiday company to court for misrepresenting/lieing about what was included in the deal/package, or for breaching a contract?

[Douglas52]

Here is the relevant regulations- read them carefully

 

The Package Travel, Package Holidays and Package Tours Regulations 1992

[gizmo111]

There is also the case Jarvis v swantours where loss of enjoyment was compensated.

[johans]

There is also the case Jarvis v swantours where loss of enjoyment was compensated.

 

thanks gizmo, where can i find reference to this case?

[gizmo111]

Have a look here Jarvis

[crm250dude]

few questions...

 

when you were sold the holiday did you enquire as to what facilities/ services were included in the all inclusive tag?

 

what was not included that you thought was?

 

did you receive any documentation through the post before traveling and was there any mention as to what the all-inclusive actually was? or where to find out?

 

different hotels/resorts have different levels of what they call all inclusive ...

 

ie:

 

alot do not include watersports or - motorised water sports there is axtra charge locally for this - alot only allow free "local brand" drinks ie in the caribbean you get red stripe lager - if you want a budweiser or holsten pils its extra - i have had many a bad rash from local vodka's and had to spend large amounts of drinking money to have the "import" smirnoff or absolute...

[johans]

few questions...

 

when you were sold the holiday did you enquire as to what facilities/ services were included in the all inclusive tag?

 

what was not included that you thought was?

 

did you receive any documentation through the post before traveling and was there any mention as to what the all-inclusive actually was? or where to find out?

 

different hotels/resorts have different levels of what they call all inclusive ...

 

ie:

 

alot do not include watersports or - motorised water sports there is axtra charge locally for this - alot only allow free "local brand" drinks ie in the caribbean you get red stripe lager - if you want a budweiser or holsten pils its extra - i have had many a bad rash from local vodka's and had to spend large amounts of drinking money to have the "import" smirnoff or absolute...

 

 

not wishing to be rude dude- as all advice is welcome -but if you read the link in the first post you will see that we were deceitfully enticed into a holiday on the basis of what was ,"supposed to be included",

We did not book over the internet and the confirmation documents that arrived a day before travel also gave no clue as to the, " limitations", of the ALL INCLUSIVE package ( an ALL Inclusive package that 90% of all the other guests enjoyed- mainly unlimited access to the a la carte resturants- apart from us and several others who are now engaged in a similar complaint )

 

their argument, " med hotels", is that, not withstanding what the travel agent promised, a vist to their website would have shown that there was a limitation to what a holiday booked direct with med hotels over the internet in that hotel, offered!

 

once again , i did not book direct with med hotels, over the internet but with one of their licensed booking agents, who made a lot of promises that ultimately were not deliverd!

[crm250dude]

Hi,

 

yes - sorry about that im a newbie here....

 

funny enough i used to work for jetline, currently i work for a london based travel company and often represent my firm in court...

 

your problem is you have been missold by jetline - they didnt nescessarily mis sell you just for the commision - "AI" and "AI lite" is a bit confusing even for experienced travel agents - operators are always coming up with new marketing names for services (one of my staff once told a passenger she was flying on concord to barbados - when in fact it was "concord services" on british caledonian-theyre equivalent of club class - poor boy never lived that one down and cost us a few quid too ;-)

 

IMHO

you have 2 choices..

 

1.

write to jetline tell them you want £400 for the difference in the board basis (this is what the hotel offered you locally) and an offer of compensation for loss of enjoyment -(expect between £50 and £100 per head) you expect a reply within 28days or you will take them to arbitration (if they are still ABTA bonded)

arbitration costs you £30 and it costs jetline £300 - to sit at a table in abta and put your cases forward, abta are not stupid they acknowledge agents make mistakes - in my experience they often side with the consumer especially where terminolygy is the question - the consultant should have questioned deeper the term "AI Lite" before confirming the services i.e. restaurants available on your board basis - instead they assumed AI lite was AI...

 

2.

go straight to your small claims court - again about £30 - the form asks exactly what monies you want and why - again £400 thats the difference between the board basis - and go for £100 per person loss of enjoyment...

 

 

your basic gripe when all boils down is with the consultant that told you it is All inclusive - when in fact it is AI Lite - and you have found out the difference the hard way...

 

there is no point whatsover going to Med Hotels directly - they sold your agent AI Lite - and thats what they got...

 

 

.....

again im sorry im a bit confused by these threads and this forum...if you have already written to Jetline - and they have replied with what we call "a scuttlefish reply" (a scuttle fish kicks up mud in order to escape its enemy).

 

write to them again and tell them you feel you have been mis-sold the board basis and you expect a reply with an offer of settlement or you will go to arbitration or small claims - then you decide which route to take - tell them you will do it in the next 7 days.

[gizmo111]

He will not budge and only offers us an upgrade consession at 10 Maltese each per day to eat in the al a carte restuarants approx £400!

 

yes, £400, that`s what the hotel manager demanded, in advance and despite us already having paid, jetline/med hotels for the privilige!

 

and despite us having a voucher that did not mention any restrictions!

 

So you were offered the upgrade in vouchers - value £400 to eat in the al a carte - why did you not accept it.

[Loubychew]

Death?....better position? Can't wait!!!

 

LOL, I was just trying to give some perspective. I'll word it better next time!

[johans]

i dont have any motivations here - i just stumbled across this website - i am trying to get my bank charges back - and as i said in my first post on your case - i work for a travel company and often represent my firm at arbitration cases and small claims courts - i have been witness to many proceedings...

 

also as i said in the first instance - in my opinion your consultant was confused as to the difference between AI and AI Lite - its just your sort of people that assume travel agents are all crooks and trying to put one over you - sometimes this is called paranoia - you probably dealt with a teenager fresh out of college who has a lot to learn - but his mistake does not mean he is a crook, and nor does it mean you should be left out of pocket,

Personally i would have whacked the £400 on a credit card, enjoyed my holiday and then claimed it back on my return...

 

take my advice or leave it - thats your perogative - but dont tar everyone with the same stereo typical brush you seem to hold

 

let me ask you this - if you paid for a 3 course meal and didnt like the desert - would you expect a full refund? - or just a refund of the desert?

 

there is really only the one element of your holiday that went wrong - and any sane abta or small claims court judge will see this....

 

best of luck - and dont get personal

 

where to start?

 

1.you are just trying to get your bank charges back!

 

why? you signed up for their terms and conditions

 

2."it`s just your sort of people"

 

really, just what is my sort of people?

 

3.as for your 3 course meal analagy, let me ask you this:

 

if you bought a new jag of a car dealer and paid for it in advance but when you went to collect it, they had a mondeo waiting and some smart ar$e jumped up salesman asked you what you were complaining for it still did all the the jobs the jag would`ve done, would you just settle for the balance?

 

and as for , " don`t get personal", oh the irony, on numerous occassions i have witnessed some of the poorest service delivered in the service sector by people in the holiday trade-This whole part of the site is devoted to it- and as for their accuracy in describing resorts hotels etc, let`s just say they make estate agents look like a profession beyond repute!

 

as before your advice has been noted and filed in the BS folder!

[johans]

So you were offered the upgrade in vouchers - value £400 to eat in the al a carte - why did you not accept it.

 

no you misunderstand gizmo, we were offered an upgrade but only if we crossed the managers palm with £400 quid first!

[johans]

thanks for your comments

 

but £400 quid just won`t cut it, our holiday was spoiled because after spending the first few days arguing with the hotel management and the rep , the mood for the rest of the holiday was lower than a bank managers scruples!

 

we booked the holiday using every penny of spare cash we had so we were expecting what we paid for! We did`nt really have or felt we should-stump up the extra cash, in fact if the whole package had been offered from the outset at £400 more, then we would not have booked ! in fact we paid too much anyway given the quality of the hotel and it`s service as we experienced and we were not the only ones who had been duped, see the trip advisor link below!

 

Sliema: Hotel Fortina Spa Resort - Traveller Reviews - When is All Inclusive NOT All Inclusive? - TripAdvisor

 

We want the full cost of our holiday back, "£2.500", plus damages and while I will make ABTA aware of the complaint,i don`t expect any positive action so i will be issuing court proceedings- in conjuntion with another family we met there- next week as jetline have basically rejected any culpability and fobbed us off!

[crm250dude]

you wont get the full cost of your holiday back,

 

you used the flights - there was nothing wrong with the flights - why should you get your air fares back???

 

you stayed in the hotel - your only issue is board basis,and that is not grounds enough for a full refund,

 

if your too greedy in your expectations you run the risk of being thrown out of court for being unreasonable,

 

as i said you are entitled to £400 being the difference in board basis + compensation per person - they will not award compensation over and above the costs - you could have paid the £400 locally and had your "dream holiday"

 

best of luck

[johans]

you wont get the full cost of your holiday back,

 

you used the flights - there was nothing wrong with the flights - why should you get your air fares back???

 

you stayed in the hotel - your only issue is board basis,and that is not grounds enough for a full refund,

 

if your too greedy in your expectations you run the risk of being thrown out of court for being unreasonable,

 

as i said you are entitled to £400 being the difference in board basis + compensation per person - they will not award compensation over and above the costs - you could have paid the £400 locally and had your "dream holiday"

 

best of luck

 

I have some doubts over your motivation here,but here goes

 

yes we used the flights but like i said, if we had been given an honest and accurate brief of what we were misled into believing we were receiving then we would`nt have booked and therefore not flown.

 

and as for being, " too greedy", i am sure you know all about that working in the travel industry

 

thanks but no thanks for your, " advice", i`ll take my chances in court

[gizmo111]

He will not budge and only offers us an upgrade consession at 10 Maltese each per day to eat in the al a carte restuarants approx £400!

 

Was this the actual extra cost of eating in the a la carte restaurant? If not how much was it?

[johans]

Was this the actual extra cost of eating in the a la carte restaurant? If not how much was it?

 

 

yes, £400, that`s what the hotel manager demanded, in advance and despite us already having paid, jetline/med hotels for the privilige!

 

and despite us having a voucher that did not mention any restrictions!

[crm250dude]

i dont have any motivations here - i just stumbled across this website - i am trying to get my bank charges back - and as i said in my first post on your case - i work for a travel company and often represent my firm at arbitration cases and small claims courts - i have been witness to many proceedings...

 

also as i said in the first instance - in my opinion your consultant was confused as to the difference between AI and AI Lite - its just your sort of people that assume travel agents are all crooks and trying to put one over you - sometimes this is called paranoia - you probably dealt with a teenager fresh out of college who has a lot to learn - but his mistake does not mean he is a crook, and nor does it mean you should be left out of pocket,

Personally i would have whacked the £400 on a credit card, enjoyed my holiday and then claimed it back on my return...

 

take my advice or leave it - thats your perogative - but dont tar everyone with the same stereo typical brush you seem to hold

 

let me ask you this - if you paid for a 3 course meal and didnt like the desert - would you expect a full refund? - or just a refund of the desert?

 

there is really only the one element of your holiday that went wrong - and any sane abta or small claims court judge will see this....

 

best of luck - and dont get personal

[Loubychew]

You were mis-sold the holiday by the agent, to your cost and they should rectify that and you should be refunded the extra costs incurred and also be recompensed for loss of enjoyment.

 

You did the deal on the phone, it could have been recorded. Is there any chance you can ask to raise the call records?

 

But, I have to agree with crm250dude. IMO you will not receive a full refund plus compensation. Don't get cross, they are just opinions from folks who work in the travel industry with no hidden agenda. Its not going to happen. Sure, if you had suffered some horrific trauma, death, injury or some such, you would be in a better position. Thankfully you didn't so you have to put it into perspective.

 

Go for the 400 quid plus inconvenience/loss enjoyment.

[Michael Browne]

Sure, if you had suffered some horrific trauma, death, injury or some such, you would be in a better position.

Death?....better position? Can't wait!!!

[johans]

you wont get the full cost of your holiday back,

 

you used the flights - there was nothing wrong with the flights - why should you get your air fares back???

 

you stayed in the hotel - your only issue is board basis,and that is not grounds enough for a full refund,

 

if your too greedy in your expectations you run the risk of being thrown out of court for being unreasonable,

 

as i said you are entitled to £400 being the difference in board basis + compensation per person - they will not award compensation over and above the costs - you could have paid the £400 locally and had your "dream holiday"

 

best of luck

 

where to start?

 

1.you are just trying to get your bank charges back!

 

why? you signed up for their terms and conditions

 

2."it`s just your sort of people"

 

really, just what is my sort of people?

 

3.as for your 3 course meal analagy, let me ask you this:

 

if you bought a new jag of a car dealer and paid for it in advance but when you went to collect it, they had a mondeo waiting and some smart ar$e jumped up salesman asked you what you were complaining for it still did all the the jobs the jag would`ve done, would you just settle for the balance?

 

and as for , " don`t get personal", oh the irony, on numerous occassions i have witnessed some of the poorest service delivered in the service sector by people in the holiday trade-This whole part of the site is devoted to it- and as for their accuracy in describing resorts hotels etc, let`s just say they make estate agents look like a profession beyond repute!

 

as before your advice has been noted and filed in the BS folder!

[Loubychew]

Holidays cannot be compared to a car. There is more than one component, ie flights, transfers, accom & rep service (if on a package).

 

You don't seem to have a problem with your flight and all else with the holidays appears to have been ok apart from the AI drama. This is where you should be putting all your heart & energies into. Quite clearly you have a case here, nobody is disputing that fact.

 

I wish you the best of luck in this. You have been given good advice and how you choose to take it is up to you but implying that is is BS in below the belt. Nobody is obliged to take the time to reply to you.

[johans]

it`s no suprise that the negative replies have come from people who work in the industry,

 

for the last time:

 

i would not have needed the flights- which in fact jetline booked as part of the package- if i had been given an honest and accurate description of what i was going to getting for my money. I most definately would not have booked the Fortina Spa and i probably would not have even gone to malta!

 

as for your comments regarding being given good advice, i was hoping for comments from those who have actually been involved in taking unscrupulous holiday companies to court and not the opinions of travel company employees whose impartiallity would always be doubtful but thanks for your imput!

[elizabeth1]

You should go to WWW.HOLIDAYTRAVELWATCH.CO.UK they are specialist in helping consumers with holiday problems of all different kinds etc..

 

Their telephone number is 0121 747 8100 - you'll find this is an answer machine where you can leave your name and contact number they will call you back quite soon and discuss with you your problems and advise you as to the best way to tackle this.

 

The website does have a contact link on there where you can email and ask in writing if that is easier than phoning for you. You'll see the website does have a lot of really useful information to help you.