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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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GE Money Mortgage and repossession


The Analyst
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I guess that is a success Analyst - but I still think they should have had to answer to the judge for their incompetence.

 

We paid off our GE sec loan last week - YIPPEEE - and I am just waiting for their final statement before I send the LBA for all the £40 charges. I am biding my time for the £2.5k ERC but it is great to to have them off my back.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Congratulations on your success, all the background work whether you used it paid off, its certainly better to be over pepared!

 

I was behind with a mortgage earlier this year and had paid the outstandings off prior to the court hearing. I asked for the case to be closed as the claim had been satisfied and it was. Puts the claimant back to base zero - sounds again like GE just playing dirty to retain an advantage!

 

Anyway enjoy your Christmas in the knowledge that your settlement is around the corner and your time is soon to come!

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  • 3 years later...

Hello all, The Analyst here again three years on and back in the same predicament.

Those of you who posted to my thread at the end of 2007 will be aware that there was a compensation claim ongoing which we had been led to believe was to be settled within a few months. Due to the other side demanding further medical reports as to my wife's physical and mental health the case is still ongoing after 13 years! But we are now seeing the end of the tunnel with a Court date in Oban, Scotland due in March or April. The other side have already made a 5 figure offer to settle which we have rejected - hence the Court case going ahead.

Now to the reason for the new post - GE Money are at it again!

We are back in arrears with them and they have issued repossession documents (on Christmas Eve!) to go to Court on 26th January.

At the time of writing this my wife does not know of the action - I've managed to keep her away from the post box and for a very good reason.

Due to her increasingly severe Post Traumatic Stress Disorder she has attempted to take her life twice in the last 18 months. It takes very little to set off one of these 'episodes' and certainly repossession action is more than likely going to be one of them. But at some time soon she is going to have to be told so I'm going to have to deal with that with the Mental Health Crisis Team on standby.

The point is that GE Money have been made well aware of my wife's mental state and I have warned them on numerous occasions, in writing, of the fatal consequences that could occur if they start Court action. They have been sent all relevant medical reports plus I have asked them time after time to deal directly with our Solicitor in Scotland to try to come to some arrangement whereby they will hold off on any action until the compensation case is settled.

They have ignored all of that and have basically put a price of £9000 on my wife's head and are gambling that she stays alive.

Unlike the last repossession hearing we don't have the payment protection to fall back on. So I'm after more help from your good selves. This is what I'm proposing to do on Monday when GE Money re-open for business. I'm going to offer to provide them with a legally binding Mandate signed by myself, my wife and Solicitor stating that all arrears will be paid at the conclusion of the compensation case in either March or April. This type of Mandate has already been provided by our Solicitor to other creditors who have accepted it and held off any further action. Is this something that a mortgage company might accept to cancel the claim hearing?

If this fails I'm also going to attempt to apply to the Court to have the hearing adjourned until after the conclusion of the compensation case. Is this also something I should try?

There is a lot more I could write about this but I'll leave it there for now whilst you think about your answers.

 

regards and Happy New Year,

 

The Analyst

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Right,forgive my bluntness but its just how i tend to explain things,i totally sympathise with you and and the problems you have had and are still having,so lets fisrt put you in the picture.Firstly G.E Money,originally purple loans,they went on to buy Creation finance and at one period 2007-2009 were the backing behind most of your hight st shops in-house store cards until they sold that part of their business to Santander/Nationwide.They concentrated all their efforts towards the mortgage lending/second charge loan sector,and believe me when i say this,they are sharks,and moreover,they want your home any way they can legally get it.I was not surprised that the judge gave a suspended order on this and it did not suprise me in the least that G.E persued you for an order at the first possible oppertunity because thats how they operate,they will call in the loan on default as soon as they can because repossession for them is a healthy,profit making business.There is no forbearance on behalf of this lender,no pre action protocol asregards exploring ways of clearing arrears and using possession proceedings as a last resort,for these its the first port of call.Sorry for the history lesson and the doom and gloom discription but i always say know thyne enemy and it will make you stronger.So whats to do about this situation you are in?

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I may be wrong but i cannot see G.E agreeing to the mandate you propose,they didnt last time so i cannot see them doing it this time.The way they will see it is that they already have one hand on your property so will be trying their hardest to get the other on it(if they do agree then all well and good but somehow i just can,t see it),thus i think you may have to go to another court hearing.If that is the case im sure the judge would just extend the order until the compensation came through,so you may have to N244 this and use as your defence,

 

Your wifes condition and medical evidence

 

proof of your claim

 

proof of the yorkshires acceptance of the mandate

 

and amount of claim you are likely to win

 

also mention the attempts you have made both to talk to G.E and work out a soloution

 

emphasise you and your wifes vulnurability in all of this and what detrimental effects repossession will have on the both of you and you should be fine.

I fyou get no joy tommorrow then you will have to put the above defence together quickly and thoroughly (remember you have not got the ppi to rely on now,you should also mention your other creditors have agreed to the plan you put forward to G.E

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If you do the above you should be ok,and if you need any help with the N244 or a witness statement i can help you with that too,if im not around Ell-enn will help.To be honest you would in my opinion be fine.Now a word of advice here,if ever you get a suspended order on your property make sure that in 6-12 months after the arrears has been cleared,you apply on another n244 to get the possession order set aside or withdrawn,this is important because they will use it if you default again and thus would be able evict you without a court hearing.So when you have settled with G.E in March or April keep in mind the suspended repo and get it lifted at the earliest opurtunity.If it does go pear shaped on Monday come back to the forum and we will take it from there,good luck and a happy new year to you

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Thank you for your replies so far.

As far as I can remember the original Judge told us that the case was 'adjourned indefinitely' but not dismissed - no order was made. This is a new action.

As for the Mandate we never made such an offer in the original case as the PPI option became available to us.

I rang GEM this morning but the Litigation Department don't start back until tomorrow (4th). I'll be trying again with the Mandate suggestion and, if they refuse, I will be backing it up with a letter suggesting the Mandate option again. The letter will be part of our defence bundle along with their reply which I will ask to be forwarded to me ASAP. I'd like the DJ to know we've been trying to come to an agreement even at this late stage.

I would seriously like to go ahead with the N244 to apply for an adjournment so any further help with that would be gratefully received.

In the meantime I am working on the defence papers for the main hearing should that still go ahead. Luckily, I still have everything from the last hearing so I just have to update the financial statement section and update the 'Give details of any events or circumstances....'

I'd like to concentrate on how repossession would affect my wife's mental health to the point were she might consider taking her life. There is a report I will be including in the bundle from a psychologist which refers to her suicidal tendencies (She's already tried twice).

Her main therapy is to have as mundane and normal a day-to-day life as is possible.

I've still to tell her about the action - not looking forward to that but it will need to be done in the next couple of days.

 

The Analyst

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Hi there, I remember your case from last time. You have received an N1M defence form ? if so, this is a fresh claim. I can help you with completing the forms and with a statement to accompany them. You will have to hand it in to the court at least a week before the hearing, so you have plenty of time to gather together as much documentary evidence as you can to support your defence.

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Hello again Ell-enn.

Thank you again for your help, although I'd hoped I wouldn't need to be here again. I assume you mean a N11M defence form as that's what we each have?

I've already just about finished the statement part of the form. As I've included a paragraph regarding the offer of the mandate letter I'll leave pasting a copy of the statement here until I've spoken to GEM tomorrow.

As stated previously I'm going to apply to the Court via N244 to have the hearing adjourned until after the compo case is over in March or April. To this end I've let our Solicitor know about the action and hopefully he'll be able to provide some sort of letter/evidence/statement to be included in the application. Unfortunately, his offices are in Glasgow and as they have an extra Bank Holiday up there it's going to be Wednesday until I can speak to him about all of this.

The Analyst

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You can ask the judge to adjourn your case in your N11M defence form - if you submit an N244 it wil cost you £75.00. There may be some case law we can ask the judge to consider to allow reduced payments until your compensation comes through and I can help you construct the defence statement to include this. You don't need to complete both sets of forms, just put both names in the one box - the statement for Q.27 of the form applies to both of you anyway.

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So the financial section of the form is for our expenses and outgoings as a couple not individually? For example. Q17, Money You Receive, take home pay would be mine and pension would be the wife's, etc. No need to keep everything separate, then?

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That's right, show expenses jointly

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The reason for going for a separate adjournment hearing was to prevent my wife from having to attend a repossession hearing. I need to do anything I can to minimise the potential for her attempting her life again. Despite the cost an adjournment hearing is one that I would attend on my own; if it's successful it's one less thing for her to worry about and we can then concentrate on the compensation case which is going to be a stressful event in itself.

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You can go on your own to the possession hearing - it's not necessary for both parties to attend and most cases I deal with only one party attends.

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Hello Ell-enn,

My wife needs as mundane a day-to-day life as it is possible to have. Just the word 'repossession' or 'Court'on a letter or envelope could be enough to set off a suicidal episode. If I can get the hearing adjourned until after the compensation case is over that is some 'good' news that might hopefully keep her calm.

 

As expected GEM refused to accept the Mandate from our Solicitor.

 

I've completed the first draft of Q27 and I am pasting it below for all to see and comment on. It is very long and concentrates on my wife's mental illness and her required therapy:

 

27. Give details of any events or circumstances which have led to your being in arrears with your mortgage (for example divorce, separation, redundancy, bereavement, illness, bankruptcy). If you believe you would suffer exceptional hardship by being ordered to leave the property immediately, say why.

 

I would respectfully ask the Court to consider the following:

 

In 1998 my wife and I were involved in a serious road traffic collision in Scotland. Although I came out of it relatively unscathed my wife suffered serious leg injuries. In the ensuing years her mental state also began to be affected by the after-effects of the collision.

As a consequence we started a compensation claim against the Frenchman who admitted guilty to causing the collision.

 

The Court Writ originally submitted in 2001 stated that the compensation claimed would be a minimum of £250,000 plus 8% interest per year until the completion of the claim. As of 2010 that writ has been recalculated and resubmitted to the Scottish Court at £750,000 plus 8% interest.

 

The compensation case is now due before the Sheriff Court in Oban, Scotland within the next three months (date to follow) after nearly thirteen years of medical and psychological reports. On the 20th October 2010, following a meeting between Solicitors from both sides, the defendants in the case offered us a 5-figure sum to settle; on the advice of our Solicitor this offer was summarily rejected. Following the conclusion of the case in Court our Solicitor expects the final settlement to be in the region of £500,000 once loss of earnings and pension are included.

 

At the time of the collision my wife was a highly paid teacher in a Secondary School receiving extra management points on her salary. Unfortunately, as time has passed, the worsening mental and physical injuries meant that she had to take early retirement due to ill health in May 2005. She now only receives a basic pension; my salary was reduced in 2006 due to a Local Government Job Evaluation exercise and I have not received any annual increase in pay since then.

Whilst my wife was still receiving her full salary, and my pay was still pre-job evaluation, we took out a third, secure, mortgage with GE Money Home Lending. At this time we were able to make all the necessary payments. Now, because of the massive salary reductions, plus the personal expense of mental therapy, we have been unable to make the full monthly payments.

 

Because my wife’s pension is above certain thresholds she is unable to claim any benefits whatsoever.

 

Over the last twelve years my wife’s mental and physical injuries have been getting steadily worse. Mentally, she suffers from Chronic Post Traumatic Stress Disorder with suicidal tendencies and Severe Depression. In March 2009 she had to have a total hip replacement due to osteoarthritis of her right hip. Because she is only 51 years of age she will most likely require at least one, if not two, more hip replacements over the next twenty years. On the 19th January 2011 she is due to undergo surgery on her damaged ankle to remove obstructive bone growth, again due to osteoarthritis, plus the removal of one of the screws inserted during surgery after the collision in 1996.

On the day we received the Court Papers from GE Money we had just returned from Hull Royal Infirmary where she had been given steroid injections into her spine to ease crippling pain caused by fused joints (another result of the car collision).

 

All of these medical procedures, the ensuing compensation case and now this unreasonable repossession action by GE Money are exacerbating her current mental condition to the effect that she is now experiencing disturbing dreams and is in great danger of suffering a serious mental episode and making another attempt on taking her life.

 

To this end I would respectfully request that the Court take note of the highlighted sections on pages 9, 10, 12 and, especially, 11 of the report by Dr. Waseem Alladin, Consultant Psychologist, regarding the ongoing mental state of my wife and co-defendant Mrs xxxxxx. Although this report is dated 2003 the nature of PTSD is such that her mental condition will never be fully healed and, indeed, is probably worse now seven years on from the time of this report and, as such, all comments made in the report are still relevant today.

I also include a more up to date report from Dr Ian Matson which agrees wholeheartedly with that of Dr Alladin.

 

Also attached is a report on her physical condition by Mr Richard Warren as it relates to her hip and ankle damage.

 

All of these reports, and many others, are part of the file for the compensation case detailed above.

 

My wife cannot be amongst large crowds of people; even shopping is no longer an option for her as she suffers panic attacks. Very rarely do we socialise with friends; we no longer attend cinema or theatre nor pubs and restaurants. Our evenings are spent together watching television and discussing our future once we are financially secure following the completion of the compensation case.

 

It is of primary importance that my wife has as normal a day-to-day life as it is possible to achieve in these difficult times. Because of the PTSD she needs to keep her mind as active as possible on ‘normal’, even mundane, things. The slightest anomaly can induce a suicidal episode.

 

On 13th December 2009 she contemplated taking her life by parking her car on nearby railway lines. It was only my intervention when she rang me on her mobile phone to say goodbye that stopped this from happening. She was consequently referred to the local Mental Health Crisis Team who undertook an assessment and daily checks of her mental wellbeing.

She also contemplated taking her life on 27th April 2010 simply due to the fact that she was going to have to travel to London later in the week for two further medical assessments demanded by the defendants in the compensation case. Just the thought of having to go through the collision in her mind again was enough to trigger the suicidal episode. Again, it was only the intervention of me, other family members and a mental health nurse that prevented the suicide taking place.

 

As a result of these episodes she was referred to an NHS Clinical Psychologist who assessed her but who is unable to proceed with any sort of treatment at the moment until the mental stress of the compensation case is resolved.

 

Such serious suicidal episodes can occur at any time.

 

The one constant in her daily life is her love of our pets. We own dogs, a cat and horses and her days are spent attending to their care – 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Obviously this relies on a certain amount of money each month to maintain and I wish to be fully open with the court about this money as it affects our current situation regarding the repossession hearing.

Wherever possible the financial outgoings have been kept as minimal as is feasible so as to allow for all our other monthly requirements. The animals are all insured and are fed and cared for as cheaply as it is possible to do without endangering their health.

 

I wish to make it clear to the court that the ongoing care of these animals is vitally important to my wife’s mental health; this is her daily mental therapy. It is only being able to care for them that keep her sane and able to cope on a day-to-day basis. Not only I but her medical team agree that her care of her pets is the best medicine that she can have to keep her alive. It is because of this that I respectfully request that the Court accept this situation as vital and necessary ongoing medical therapy and that financial allowances are made to allow this therapy to continue unabated.

 

It could be claimed by any of our creditors, and I’m sure will be by GE Money, that the amount of money spent on caring for the pets could be better used to help with paying the mortgage arrears. It is precisely because of this that I have constantly attempted to reach agreement with all parties so that this necessary and life saving situation can continue. In all of this ‘mess’ the one constant that I have attempted to ensure was keeping my wife healthy and, more importantly, alive. All of the involved parties have been kept fully aware of this situation and, with the exception of GE Money, have acted humanely and sympathetically.

 

I have made it clear in writing many times to GE Money that any hint of repossession action may well be enough to trigger another suicide attempt. They were provided with the same documentation mentioned in this defence form plus others such as a DMHE form provided by the Consultant Psychologist who dealt with my wife following her mental health assessment after the first suicidal episode. GE Money staff have therefore been fully aware of how any action they take can influence the future wellbeing of my wife.

Despite all the evidence provided and the opportunity to reach a suitable agreement with our Solicitor they decided to proceed with the repossession hearing nonetheless – and less than three months before the compensation case is due in Oban Sheriff Court.

 

As stated previously, all our other creditors are aware of the seriousness of my wife’s mental illness and have been very supportive and all have reduced our monthly payments to a manageable amount on condition that when the compensation claim is finalised we settle all accounts in full. We sent them letters and other documentation from our Solicitor detailing the claim plus a copy of the original Court Writ.

A detailed income and expenditure statement is attached.

 

Since the Court papers have been issued I have made a token payment of £25, with another of the same amount to follow on the 1st February 2011 and subsequent months. This is the same amount paid each month to our Yorkshire Bank mortgage accounts. I requested the account details from GE Money to begin these payments before I was aware of the repossession hearing - it was not as a result of this action that payments were started – they were planned to be made anyway as a gesture of goodwill on our part prior to the conclusion of the compensation case sometime in the next three months.

 

In an attempt to reach a short term agreement and the adjournment of the hearing, on the 4th of January 2011 at 10:40am, I rang the Litigation Department of GE Money and offered them the chance to accept a legally binding Mandate signed by myself, my wife and our Solicitor stating that all outstanding arrears would be paid at the conclusion of the compensation case and monies received.

The agent I spoke to, [NAME REMOVED], refused to accept this very reasonable offer and insisted that the repossession hearing continue. I also backed up the telephone conversation by writing a letter to GE Money making the same offer.

 

Had GE Money accepted this legally binding Mandate we would not have had to waste the Court’s valuable time with an unnecessary repossession hearing.

 

GE Money Home Loans and the GE Money Litigation Department have both been given every opportunity to liaise with our Solicitor in organising a suitable arrangement for the payment of the arrears. They have been provided with our Solicitor’s details and the case reference number on numerous occasions the latest being August 2010. Obviously, our Solicitor has the main file for the compensation case and has copies of all medical and legal documentation and would have provided any such documentation GE Money requested to prevent any repossession hearing to be required.

 

GE Money have failed to continue with these negotiations – had they done so I’m sure a suitable arrangement could have been made in the short term before the conclusion of the compensation case.

 

The current value of our property is £160,000 and the equity is £44,500.

 

Based on the above facts, I respectfully ask the Court not to grant possession but to adjourn the hearing until the conclusion of the compensation case noted above due in March or April when we will be in a better position to discuss payment of all outstanding arrears.

Edited by alanfromderby
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OK, as you say it's long - so you will need to get it into court asap before the hearing date so the judge can get a proper read of it all. As said earlier - it is not necessary for your wife to attend the possession hearing you can go on your own and therefore save having to apply for another hearing.

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The case law refers to reduced payments for a period of time - are you able to make any payments at all ?

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How much should the normal monthly payment be ?

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OK, it may be worth inserting "We respectfully ask the court to consider the case of Royal Bank of Scotland v Elmes together with S.36 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and accept reduced payments of £75 per month until such time as we receive payment of compensation as detailed in this statement".

 

In this case the judge suspended possession on reduced payments with the case to be further considered after 3 months as there was a good prospect of Elmes being able to begin to pay back the arrears.

 

 

s.36 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 enables the court to impose any terms about payment so long as the borrower would, within a reasonable period, be able to clear the arrears and pay the current instalments.

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Excellent, thank you, I'll include that.

I've just spoken to our Solicitor dealing with the compensation case and he's going to write to the defendants asking them to make an interim payment to help our situation - he's going to ask for £30,000. Apparently, this won't affect the main case and as they have already offered £80,000 to settle (which we rejected, obviously) he doesn't think that will be a problem. The only hitch will be the timescale as it's a French insurance company and, if they agree to the payment, it could take anything up to 8 weeks for the cheque to arrive. He's going to send me tomorrow, via e-mail, a copy of the letter plus anything else regarding the compensation hearing in Oban - which he still thinks will be around April time - that might help our repossession case. Because the Solicitor is in Scotland he is unaware of English Law and repossession cases so I might need your guidance if he wants further information.

So I'll need to mention all of this on the statement as well - I'll check the wording with you once I've seen the letter tomorrow.

I'm continuing to complete the defence forms anyway so I'll be asking some questions later about them.

Hopefully, all of this better news is going to make it easier when I tell the wife over the weekend.

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I've decided not to tell the wife about the repossession action; she's not in any fit state mentally at the moment and I dread to think what she'll do if she finds out.

Still waiting for our Solicitor to e-mail the letter requesting the interim payment so I'm holding back on completing the statement until I receive that - hopefully in the next couple of days.

A question or two about the defence forms: if I only need to complete one set of defence forms how do I go about correctly adding both our details; Q1 only has space for one persons name, address and DOB.

Q18 How to include two persons bank details?

Q24 states 'Do not include any payments made by other members of the household out of their own income' - so how can they be combined?

Finally, the Statement of Truth. Can I sign on my wife's behalf as she is not to know about the action. Can I sign as her 'Litigation Friend' as well as co-defendant?

It just seems that the forms are designed to be completed individually rather than as a combined form.

Thanks for your help so far.

 

The Analyst

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You don't actually need to complete the forms - you can use your statement, a budget sheet (I have affixed the one we normally use) and all the documents you have to support your statement. The court will accept this as your defence and it is quite normal.

 

I have also affixed a template for your statement - you just need to enter the info at the top where there are XXX's (remove the xxx's) and remove all parts that are not relevant to your case.

 

If you go to the Repossession forum, you will see some threads where I have written statements for defence of eviction or possession - that will give you a good idea how to set out the statement and how to reference your appendices.

Budget Sheet.xls

Statement Template.doc

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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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