DCA vs SampleX - Confused and Getting Moreso by the day....

[SampleX]

Hello there.

 

I'm not sure that I didn't post this before but I can't find my former thread...

 

I had a debt with a bank over a credit card. Long story short, the bank offered to settle for a 40% payment. I have this in writing. I responded in writing immediately accepting the offer and asking how and when they wanted me to pay them. I was ignored. I sent that letter three more times, including after having received a 'since you're ignoring us, we're threatening you with legal action' letter. Some of the letters back to them were even recorded delivery.

 

Anyway, they then assign the debt to a DCA, a bunch of wigglers called Link Financial. Link are now demanding the full original amount of the debt, and ignoring my dispute over the fact that the bank had made a proposal which I had accepted, and I expect them to honour it.

 

How do I deal with this?

 

I understand that there are limitations on the hows, whys and wherefores of debts being enforced by collectors, not least disputes over the appropriate documentation being transferred and contracts and such like. I also understand that I'm entitled to certain informations about the handling of my accounts etc.

 

However, I'm not the sharpest tool in the box, having ended up suffering stress related illness as a result of the failure of my business and the mass of debt I'm facing, and particularly this manifests itself in my inability to sit and read endless pages and documents without getting confused. I've been trying to tackle credit card and bank charge reclaiming at the same time as dealing with debt recovery and such like, and my head is swimming in acronyms and terminology and procedures to the point that I don't really know where to begin.

 

I do dispute a good proportion of the sum of this credit card bill, because I know a huge amount of it relates to late and default payment charges, rather than actual spend, expecially considering that £1000 paid to the bank over the last 2 years has seen the balance increase over a grand nonetheless... So with all the procedures involved in this whole thing, I'm confused, and in spite of letters to the contrary and phone calls where I refused to deal with them on the phone, only in writing, these swine are still ringing me, and the place I'm living, anything up to three times a day, while we avoid the phone.

 

How do I go about demanding the right documents, and setting out the right procedures to tackle this, see if I can reduce what I need to pay, and deal with this in an affordable manner, understanding that I'm currently part time self employed with irregular income after the loss of my business.

 

Can someone give me some help or mentoring with this, please?

 

Also, as a general question, how legal is it for a company to buy a debt of £4000 for £500, effectively causing the original owner to do a massive write off, when the original creditor wouldn't even agree a massive write off with me directly, and then, even though they only paid £500, they then demand the full £4000 as if I ran up the debt with them directly...? Are there any grounds by which individuals can offer to pay the £500 back, plus a bit of profit, and have nothing to lose, because their credit rating is already damaged by a partial write off from the bank anyway? Can you be blacklisted for the default of a debt, the same debt, to multiple companies? Have you really got anything to lose by not paying, especially considering I have no assets and am lodging with family since the loss of my business?

[ScarletPimpernel]

Firstly the stress-related reactions you describe are entirely normal in the circumstances. DCAs try to exploit this.

 

You will get plentuy of help and mentoring on these boards.

 

It isn't really clear what you would like to achive. If you acknowledge the debt, you could either offer a reduced amount for full and final settlement, or you could negotiate repayment, perhaps by entering into a debt management plan with CCCS or Payplan.

 

However, if you think that these creatures are claiming more than you owe, are not certain whether the debt is enforceable, or think the debt consists partly or totally of unfair and unlawful charges, then you can start taking action.

 

First, Link. Send them a CCA request. If they cannot produce a copy of the original agreement, or if they do but it doesn't contain the prescribed terms, then the debt is not enforceable at law. As fare as them phoning is concerned, send them a letter stating that you will only deal with them in writing, and that any further calls will be viewed as harassment. You aren't obliged to speak to them, so if they do call don't answer their security questions. Make sure you log every call, even if not answered. If they persist, complain to Trading Standards and FOS.

 

Second, the bank. Send them a SAR; this will produce all the data they hold on you, including details of all transactions. Use this to compile you claim for refund of charges - even if such a claim is held up by the ongoing OFT case, you should still make it. The SAR should also show if they have an enforceable agreement.

 

Debt purchase is a growing business, which is legal.

[firstwithit]

Also dont sign anything with your signature, PRINT IT!

[SampleX]

Are creditors known to take reduced balances, paid over time?

 

It strikes me that debt management and IVA type arrangements offer reduced balances, but with monthly repayments. Aren't the creditors better agreeing 40% reduction paid over time, than having an IVA firm demand 60% reduction paid over time?

[mollyr0x]

Yes, but common sense a DCA doesn't understand..

[PriorityOne]

Are creditors known to take reduced balances, paid over time?

 

It strikes me that debt management and IVA type arrangements offer reduced balances, but with monthly repayments. Aren't the creditors better agreeing 40% reduction paid over time, than having an IVA firm demand 60% reduction paid over time?

 

Creditors take whatever they can get.... and they tend to offer reduced settlements when they want to get rid of the account for as much as they can.... but know that your circumstances are not too good.

 

In this case, it's been passed to a DCA who are ignoring any arrangement that went on between you and the original creditor.... but it's unclear whether they are acting on behalf of the original creditor or have bought the debt from them.

 

IMO, you should send the Consumer Credit Agreement request to the DCA (by rec. delivery), as advised. They may pass if back to the original creditor if they are working on their behalf.... but, the account will still remain in dispute until the Agreement is produced. If no-one has it, then the debt cannot be taken through the courts by either of them..... which means you are no longer legally obliged to offer anybody anything.

 

[SampleX]

Here's a question... if I CCA the DCA and they DIDN'T have the original agreement, or the deed of assignment at the time I CCA'd them, can't they just have one knocked up anyway, to present officialdom back to me in return?

[PriorityOne]

If you are asking what I think you are asking.... that would be fraud on their part. Having said that, it has been known for companies to try scanning signatures onto documents... so do not sign your CCA in the usual way. Just print a signature in block capitals or something....

 

In order to have the debt re-enforced in court, it has to be the original Agreement that you signed at the time... and not a made-up, hypothetical attempt to fool you into thinking otherwise.

 

[SampleX]

Hi again...

 

Seems amazing to me that I'm back on this thread, however it has to be added that a number of the issues that I raised over a year ago are still not resolved. With many of them I have instructed DCA's and lenders what I require in order to proceed further, and they not only fail to follow instructions, but also fail to take 'further action' themselves as a result.

 

Here's one that just raised its ugly head again...

 

Link Financial...

 

I sent the following letter, after consult with some folks on here, over a YEAR ago...

 

---------------------------------------

SampleX

SampleX's Family's Address

March 26 2007

Link Financial Ltd

PO Box 30095

LONDON

SE1 7WU

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:- Your Reference SAMPLEX

Response to Letter Dated BEGINNING OF MARCH

In respect of an alleged debt which you claim I have with your company, I am at a loss as to what, exactly, you think you are doing.

You have written to me, on the 26th February under the same reference number, accusing me of a debt of £NEARLY FIVE GRAND to Barclaycard which you claim to now own, and you claim I now, in turn, owe to you. I have written in response to this debt, since I have never had such a debt with Barclaycard, and it appears that your response has been to simply pick another financial institution and attempt to charge me with the same debt but from a different source.

I think it goes without saying that I am disputing the liability for such a debt which you are clearly unable to specify with any accuracy, and would advise you that you do not have a legal right to arbitrarily and variously select alleged creditors from a list and attempt to coerce money from people simply by the act of making accusations of alleged debt, while claiming the right to enforce such debts.

Having received your initial letter I have taken your advice and consulted with both Citizens Advice, and a solicitor, and discussed this strange continuation of this matter with them again today, and it is our requirement that you now provide full proof of the debt that you claim in order for us to move on with these allegations and their implication.

It is, therefore, our requirement that, in respect of the alleged debt and with reference to the account to which you refer, you provide us with a copy of the credit agreement to which you refer.

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), we are entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. We enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

We understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

We look forward to hearing from you on this matter.

Due to the delicate legal nature of your allegations and the implications of any efforts you take to pursue this debt, and understanding the nature and tactics of companies like yours, I must insist emphatically that all correspondence on this matter, including the provision of the proof which is required, be conducted in writing, entirely in writing, and exclusively in writing.

All attempts to contact me in any other manner must cease with immediate effect. It is my view that any attempt to contact me by means other than written, or attempts to divert discourse back to telephone based communication will constitute acts of harassment and, I am informed, will constitute breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. Additionally, if such attempts do not cease there would appear to be grounds to argue a breach of the Communications Act 2003 s.127 which will be raised with OFCOM, Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading, and may result in liability for a substantial fine.

Be advised that any telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

------------------------------------------

 

The calls definately dropped in number but it is hard to tell whether that was because of the demand, or because I blacklisted their number so that my family could CallerID and avoid call centres since theirs is my only contact phone number (and still is).

 

However, no documents pertaining to the proof of ownership of this alleged debt, or indeed any signed documentation with the original alleged creditor, have been supplied in spite of a £1 fee having been sent (in cash - registered post) with the letter.

 

Today, Link once again wrote to me with a nice letter saying that they have every intention of making sure I pay this nearly five grand - I do note that since the time I notified them that the previous alleged creditor had made an offer to settle at £1700, and then when I accepted just shuffled the debt on to Link anyway, and since I disputed that over 60% of the balance was in mis-charged credit card 'penalty fees', they do not appear to have charged interest for the last year, either...

 

They're offering me 0% APR payback of the full amount over time, and of course, the only way to take up this offer or discuss it with them is to ring them and speak to an 'account officer.'

 

What is my position now? I was under the impression that after failing to provide the proper documentation as requested in the letter outlined above, that the debt was unenforceable... Can someone please advise me on this?

 

Also, Martin Lewis keeps hammering about how Credit Card charges are still unlawful and should be claimed back... How do I do that in the case of this alleged debt? Do I just hammer the alleged creditor in spite of the fact that their 'final balance' has not been paid by me, but passed on to a DCA? Or do I hammer the DCA? And how do I tackle the charges issue, at this stage, without admitting the whole of the debt and being instantly liable for a full and total repayment?

 

Help appreciated, as always.

 

We'll get there eventually!

 

These institutions, I am now QUITE convinced, having watched them work on me this last 12 months, FULLY deserve everything they get and every loss they make.

[SampleX]

Anyone? Anyone?

[PriorityOne]

You are worrying needlessly...

 

If you haven't heard from anyone for such a long time, then they've probably given up and sold it on to another bunch of chancers. There's nothing for you to do at this point, other than keep hold of all paperwork... esp. proof of your CCA request.

 

It makes no difference who crawls out of the woodwork now, the account remains in dispute from the original request which wasn't complied with. If/when some other lowlifes decide to get in touch, they can now be told to bog off and multiply for this reason.

 

[rory32]

Today, Link once again wrote to me with a nice letter saying that they have every intention of making sure I pay this nearly five grand

Why not report them to the OFT http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-protection-unfair-trading/147830-complaint-oft-respect-invalid.html That should cool their heels a bit.

[SampleX]

Thanks for the words of wisdom.

 

So, having read the text of the letter that I sent them way back when (and I have the registered post receipt for it still) would you say that it constitutes a perfectly acceptable CCA request. I'd hate to find out that it wasn't properly worded or legally acceptable.

 

So should I just continue to ignore them and not put anything back to them in writing, on the basis that if they DO suddenly take me to court, I simply 'countersue' on the basis that the CCA is issued and never responded to/satisfied?

 

Or will a court, nowadays in the credit crunch, just stomp my ass for using that argument?

[PriorityOne]

If you sent the CCA request from this site and still have the rec. delivery receipt for it, then you'll be fine.

 

If you get anything more in the post, then just update the thread and we'll help you deal with it.