Speeding camera fine

[bobbycat]

Weird Al Yankovic,

 

Have you got/had a child in excrutiating pain and trying your best to get anywhere open so you can releive him/her of the pain?

 

Like I said earlier I have been driving 11 years and NEVER had 1 driving offence doesn't that prove anything to you?

Or maybe I am a lier who is just trying to give an excuse.

[Rob S]

For 37 in a 30, you will be offered a conditional offer of a fixed penalty, or in other words a £60 ticket with 3 points to go on your licence. If your licence is clean it will make no difference to your insurance with most companies.

 

The choice is yours with regards to whether or not you accept the fixed penalty or decide to defend it. PePiPoo: Helping the motorist to get justice has a lot of information about speeding tickets and how to defend them. It might be worth taking a look there, especially as you are certain it was a front facing Gatso camera rather than a front facing Truvelo. I believe there is a front facing Gatso available but most Gatsos in use in the UK are only certified for rear facing use.

[patdavies]

but most Gatsos in use in the UK are only certified for rear facing use.

 

All Gatsos are only UK type approved for rear-facing mode

[bobbycat]

May I just say thakyou to all of you who have given me good advice.

 

I went past the same camera the other day and to my suprise it was facing DOWN the road instead of up (as I was coming down it on the day of question).

Does that mean I am right, that it shouldn't have flashed me from the front?

[danny_kiernan]

May I just say thakyou to all of you who have given me good advice.

 

I went past the same camera the other day and to my suprise it was facing DOWN the road instead of up (as I was coming down it on the day of question).

Does that mean I am right, that it shouldn't have flashed me from the front?

 

The quick answer is 'yes'

 

Dani

[Rab]

All Gatsos are only UK type approved for rear-facing mode

 

Spot on. Gatsos are ONLY type approved for vehicles travelling AWAY from the camera.

 

Bobbycat, You should get in touch with the relevant safety camera partnership/Police force, and clarify that it is indeed a Gatso. If so, then they CAN NOT prosecute an oncoming car.

 

Rab.

[ukdangerous]

 

It is virtually impossible for a filter to fail - most cases of non-magenta flash are caused by the filter being missing.

 

A Truvelo flash is required as part of type approval to be magenta and is definitely perceptible (look at the photos on the manufacturer's link I gave).

 

If it is not magenta, then the prosecution of the speeding case fails as the device cannot be certified as operating according to type approval.

 

Have I missed something whilst reading this thread? :confused:

 

Are we saying that if a forward facing Truvelo flashes you and the "flash" is not magenta then any forthcoming NIP is defenceable?

 

I only ask as having been flashed (& a subsequent NIP dropping through the letterbox within the 14 day period - 36 in a 30 @ midnight!! ), having checked today the make of the camera (Truvelo unfortunately) I seem to remember the flash was a normal white flash (like a normal camera flash) - if so how would you obtain certification for the camera?

 

Also does anyone know what the situation is with reference to multiple cars? I.e. having been flashed, there were two other vehicles much nearer to the cameras location (and those little triple line things - don't you just love tech speak!!) and I am just wondering if one of these might have triggered the camera and the powers that be are just trying to extract three fines as opposed to just the one? Are cameras trained to cover a specific area (i.e the triple lines only) or do they just penalise anyone unlucky enough to be caught @ the time of activation (regardless of whether or not they were speeding) relying on the general apathy of the public not to fight / appeal the NIP?

 

Or am I just seeing conspiracies (lol)?

[shywazz]

You could decide to make a defence and request a photo of the flash when it caught the car, this will determine whether it caught you facing or from the rear, when been flashed, might the flash reflected through your inside viewing mirror, resulting it in blinding you temporary. to which you thought it was frontal facing flash due to the mirror deflection.

The forward facing camara uses a infra red beam which produces no visable flash to the approaching driver.

[patdavies]

The forward facing camara uses a infra red beam which produces no visable flash to the approaching driver.

 

Can we nail this nonsense down please as it is totally misleading.

 

Truvelo cameras are type-approved for forward facing use with a magenta filter on the flash. This flash is visible (I again refer you to the manufacturer's website I posted earlier)

 

The OP should go back an look at the camera - the filter is fairly obvious and if it is missing, then any prosecution in court must fail as the camera is not operating within its type-approval and therefore cannot be used as evidence.

 

Again, go to Pepipoo - they can advise you on all the detail that needs to be followed.

[patdavies]

Are we saying that if a forward facing Truvelo flashes you and the "flash" is not magenta then any forthcoming NIP is defenceable?

 

Yes

 

I only ask as having been flashed (& a subsequent NIP dropping through the letterbox within the 14 day period - 36 in a 30 @ midnight!! ), having checked today the make of the camera (Truvelo unfortunately) I seem to remember the flash was a normal white flash (like a normal camera flash) - if so how would you obtain certification for the camera?

 

The certification must be produced at part of the CPS prosecution case. This will normally be in the form of a Section 20 statement which declares that the camera was operated in accordance with its type-approval. You object to the admission of this statement which leads the CPS to have to produce witness as to the veracity of the statement. If you can prove (and the photographs produced by the prosecution are in colour, it is obvious - and you should place the prosecution on notice that they should produce the originals, not copies) Then the prosecution fails as there is no admissable ecidence that you were speeding.

 

Also does anyone know what the situation is with reference to multiple cars? I.e. having been flashed, there were two other vehicles much nearer to the cameras location (and those little triple line things - don't you just love tech speak!!) and I am just wondering if one of these might have triggered the camera and the powers that be are just trying to extract three fines as opposed to just the one? Are cameras trained to cover a specific area (i.e the triple lines only) or do they just penalise anyone unlucky enough to be caught @ the time of activation (regardless of whether or not they were speeding) relying on the general apathy of the public not to fight / appeal the NIP?

 

The 'triple lines' are the secondary check. The detected vehicle should have its front wheels within the lines. If the pictures shows your vehicle's front wheels other than within the lines, you cannot be prosecuted.

 

The camera is triggered by piezo-electric sensors buried in the road prior tp the camera

[patdavies]

Yeah got it yesturday.

Pink form, I didn't know what to do with it,never had one before.

I had to fill it in though because I was in my partners car.

Luckly I had told him about it on the night it happened.

I have filled it in and sent it yesturday but I asked the post office for a

reciept because of the strikes.

 

When you say it was your partner's car, was the NIP/S.172 that you completed in your name or your partner's?

 

If you have completed somebody else's NIP/S.172, then this is not sufficient evidence to prosecute you.

 

However, your partner risks an S.172 prosecution for failing to provide.

[Oh Boy!]

Agree with Danny K, if you need any additional help with a draft letter post here and i'll supply.

[shywazz]

Misleading information states PATDAVIES:mad:

 

It seems there are differant sites relating to this camara in question, the information on each contradicts the information on the other, i have copied there main page, LOOK for yourself before indicating that people are giving mis-leading information. People are only looking up such information to help others, just as you are. You state that the web site SpeedCamerasUK - speed camera database, speed camera detector reviews, sat nav reviews has glaring inaccuracies. please when dissing a site include the site in relates to, hence the one you found, therefore the OP can read both sites and conclude there own findings.

 

 

 

Truvelo speed cameras explained

 

Truvelo Speed Cameras

 

The forward facing Truvelo camera system is designed to take photographs of the front of a passing vehicle, this allows the picture taken to show the driver of the vehicle as well.

 

To AVOID the 'flash' which is given out by a rear facing Gatso camera the Truvelo system uses an infra red flash which produces NO VISIBLE 'flash' to the approaching driver. These rely on 3 white-lines in the road, painted just before the camera, and are triggered by strips in the road, used to gain the vehicles speed.

Truvelo cameras are becoming increasingly more commonplace, counties such as Northamptonshire use predominately only Truvelo cameras.

 

Points and Penalties

 

Being prosecuted in the UK by a Truvelo speed/safety camera can result in a minimum of 3 penalty points and a £60 fine. This fine amount is currently under review by the government and may increase in near future.

 

 

Please Patdavies don't indicate that others are giving mis-leading and false information, to highlight your own input. Every1s input is welcome on this site, whether found on the OPs behalf or from there own personnel dealings. I suggest you browse the site in question, and if you feel it is mis-leading people, then contact the site owners and highlight your concerns. I'm sure there will welcome your input. ps ur own site you found includes a story which indicates that the camara doesnt flash, i suggest you really read through the site pepipoo

[Lula]

OK I think that the OP has got the message, she needs to request the picture and find out what the camera is, and then we can look at her options.

[patdavies]

Misleading information states PATDAVIES:mad: Yes, I do.

 

It seems there are differant sites relating to this camara in question, the information on each contradicts the information on the other, i have copied there main page, LOOK for yourself before indicating that people are giving mis-leading information. People are only looking up such information to help others, just as you are. You state that the web site SpeedCamerasUK - speed camera database, speed camera detector reviews, sat nav reviews has glaring inaccuracies. please when dissing a site include the site in relates to, hence the one you found, therefore the OP can read both sites and conclude there own findings.

I have looked at this site, and discounted it as wrong - which is why I did not refer to it. I prefer to rely on the veracity of the manufacturer's site - they should, after all, understand how their equipment works.

 

 

Truvelo speed cameras explained

 

Truvelo Speed Cameras

 

The forward facing Truvelo camera system is designed to take photographs of the front of a passing vehicle, this allows the picture taken to show the driver of the vehicle as well.

 

To AVOID the 'flash' which is given out by a rear facing Gatso camera the Truvelo system uses an infra red flash which produces NO VISIBLE 'flash' to the approaching driver. These rely on 3 white-lines in the road, painted just before the camera, and are triggered by strips in the road, used to gain the vehicles speed. I'm sorry but this is just wrong - this is not how a Truvelo works - it's not even written in English. The three white lines are the secondary check (similar to the lines painted on the road after a Gatso). I don't know what "gain the vehicles speed" means. Piezo-electric sensors are buried in the road to measure the vehicle's speed.

Truvelo cameras are becoming increasingly more commonplace, counties such as Northamptonshire use predominately only Truvelo cameras.

 

Points and Penalties

 

Being prosecuted in the UK by a Truvelo speed/safety camera can result in a minimum of 3 penalty points and a £60 fine. This fine amount is currently under review by the government and may increase in near future.

 

 

Please Patdavies don't indicate that others are giving mis-leading and false information, to highlight your own input. I didn't do it to highlight my own posting. Merely to point out the truth - that site is misleading. Every1s input is welcome on this site, whether found on the OPs behalf or from there own personnel dealings. I suggest you browse the site in question, and if you feel it is mis-leading people, then contact the site owners and highlight your concerns. I'm sure there will welcome your input. Thank you for that suggestion - I have done exactly that. ps ur own site you found includes a story which indicates that the camara doesnt flash, i suggest you really read through the site pepipoo

 

1) I have quoted the MANUFACTURER site - which is liable to be the most accurate as to how these cameras work.

 

They do have an infra-red version, but THIS IS NOT TYPE-APPROVED FOR USE IN THE UK.

 

2) Thank you for the advice to read Pepipoo:evil:. I have been a paid up member there for some years now.

[Oh Boy!]

Enough Already!

[ukdangerous]

[quote=patdavies;1215713

 

 

The certification must be produced at part of the CPS prosecution case. This will normally be in the form of a Section 20 statement which declares that the camera was operated in accordance with its type-approval. You object to the admission of this statement which leads the CPS to have to produce witness as to the veracity of the statement. If you can prove (and the photographs produced by the prosecution are in colour, it is obvious - and you should place the prosecution on notice that they should produce the originals, not copies) ***I assume that the originals would be coloured magenta due to the filter - if not then no filter was in place - is that right? Also, what does the filter look like - I assume it is a black lens thing @ front of the camera?***Then the prosecution fails as there is no admissable evidence that you were speeding.

 

The 'triple lines' are the secondary check. The detected vehicle should have its front wheels within the lines. If the pictures shows your vehicle's front wheels other than within the lines, you cannot be prosecuted.

 

The camera is triggered by piezo-electric sensors buried in the road prior to the camera ***Does anyone know approx distance they might be simply because I must of been 200 - 300 yards from the vehicles in front of me - in case it was one of them that tripped the camera***

 

Curious but happier!!!

[patdavies]

The filter has a purple colour and is fitted to the camera box. If you use Shywazz's link, it is quite obvious in the picture.

 

The sensors are buried in the road some distance before the lines or camera. the box calculates your speed and then takes the picture at the time your front wheels are over the triple lines. That is the secondary check as to the Truvelo's calculation of your speed.

[ukdangerous]

The filter has a purple colour and is fitted to the camera box. If you use Shywazz's link, it is quite obvious in the picture.

 

The sensors are buried in the road some distance before the lines or camera. the box calculates your speed and then takes the picture at the time your front wheels are over the triple lines. That is the secondary check as to the Truvelo's calculation of your speed.

 

Excellent!!!

 

I will check for the filter in the next few days, but I can't have activated the camera as when it flashed I was still 200 - 300 yards from the triple lines!!

 

Thanks for the information.

[paulg8996]

Excellent!!!

 

I will check for the filter in the next few days, but I can't have activated the camera as when it flashed I was still 200 - 300 yards from the triple lines!!

 

Thanks for the information.

 

Can some one clarify Truvelo cannot get you from behind all these cameras in my area have the lines over both sides of the road even if the camera lenses are facing towards you (front on ) or behind you , same with the Gatsos they have painted lines on both sides of the road even if the cameras is facing one way only, in short I can fly past a Truvelo from its rear and not get a fine ?????

[crem]

Can some one clarify Truvelo cannot get you from behind all these cameras in my area have the lines over both sides of the road even if the camera lenses are facing towards you (front on ) or behind you , same with the Gatsos they have painted lines on both sides of the road even if the cameras is facing one way only,

They have lines on both sides of the road bacause usually these cameras are reversible, although, as you say, they only operate in one direction at a time.

in short I can fly past a Truvelo from its rear and not get a fine ?????

Perhaps, but why would you? Presumably you are the type of motorist that thinks speeding is only a problem if you get caught? and that is precisely why we needed the speed camera in that location in the first place.

 

You should not need the "encouragement" of a speed camera to persuade you to maintain a safe (legal) speed.