Deduction for late rent payment?!?!

[Maharg105]

I had a 12 month tenancy in a house that I moved out of about three months ago. At the beginning I informed my landlord that I was having a few problems with getting my rent money together because I was supposed to be receiving Housing Benefit but it was taking a lot longer than usual because I was a student and that makes things slightly more complicated for whatever reason. He said this was fine and I made arrangements with my parents for them to help me pay what they could so he wasn't getting any rent at all. Eventually the money came through and I paid 'everything owed' and then paid all of my rent till the end of the tenancy. The house was left in a perfect condition and I thought all was well. However, I recieved my deposit cheque and was informed that £75 had been deducted because I had paid my rent late 6 times and the contract states that there is a £25 charge per late payment and I should be lucky that he was kind enough only to charge me for 3 of those times. Surely, even if there is something in the contract, this can't be legal. I mean what possible cost could he have incurred when the majority of the time it was only a week or so late.

 

I am disabled and have limited income and it seems ridiculous that he would charge me for doing something that I had previously explained to him was being caused by my lack of funds.

 

Thank you for your time, I'm sure you guys will be as helpful as ever

 

Graham

[wotnot]

I was on holiday once and the tenant promised faithfully (I know, I know - never trust a tenant) to pay the rent on time. Oh what a surprise when she didn't, meaning not enough to cover mortgage - the bank charged me £30 and the mortgage company charged me £40. So i'm £70 out of pocket because the tenant was a week late paying her rent. I now charge £30 for each time its late and £15 for each arrears letter. This keeps clocking up for this tenant and I will take it out of her last months rent - not the bond, I will then use the bond for last months rent arrears.

 

My advice - keep quiet and be thankful you were not charged the full amount.

 

I've just had another tenant leave a property and she wanted me to go round and check the property a week before she moved out and could she have her bond back then. I said no, I would check it when she was out and if she gave a forwarding address I would send it on. She moved out and didn't give me a forwarding address - not surprising really as the amount of money she left owing to scores of companies - including housing benefit overpayments for a previous address, run into £000's. Anyone know what I should do with her bond?

[Vanguard07]

One way or another there must be a rule for this, just as there is a maximum that banks and credit card companies can charge for a late payment (£12). We recently went away on business; due to a transfer payment that didn't go through, our rent cheque bounced. When we returned from our trip (a week later) we of course paid the rent.

 

However, the letting agency is charging us £23.50 and £17.63 for two letters sent to us while we were away, £17.63 for the returned cheque fee and £11.75 for a single phone call. That's £70.51. I understand that I should cover their charge for the bounced cheque, and that there may be an admin fee involved, but these charges strike me as random.

 

Does anyone know if there is a legal limit to what can be charged in these circumstances?

[Guest Alison82]

So basically you want to charge her a penalty charge of £70 for paying her rent a week late?! That's worse than the banks!

 

Does it say you can do that in her contract and if it does that sounds like an unfair term to me

[Jeanjaquessmoothie]

They're still only allowed to charge a genuine pre-estimate of costs. It doesn't cost £25 to pay a week late. If they can prove otherwise, fair enough.

 

Same situation as the banks really. Challenge them for the cost of the missed payment, if they can't provide it, take them to court . If you do this while you're still living there, it's likely to earn you a section 21 notice

[wotnot]

As i understand it you are only supposed to charge what it actually cost you to process/deal with the problem. (look at the bank issue) As the actual cost to me was £70 I am quite sure I can pass this on to the tenant plus my time in administering their late payment - so in this instance I should be charging £70 + £12.

 

Why should landlords stand the cost of a tenant paying late, there is also the massive amount of time taken with letter writing, hand delivering letters (due to postal srike) and the worry and stress of taking a non paying tenant to court - which costs hundreds of pounds and landlords are unlikely to recover plus possible damage, rent arrears etc.

 

Unfair - who said life was fair?

 

If you go to tesco and dont pay for your shopping they call it theft yet if a tenant doesnt pay for their housing thats ok! Stay there rent free until the L has spent a fortune to get you out months later.

[Jeanjaquessmoothie]

how did it cost you £70? For a weeks late payment? Don't be silly.

 

It also doesn't cost you £12 to administer their payment.

[Guest Alison82]

As i understand it you are only supposed to charge what it actually cost you to process/deal with the problem. (look at the bank issue) As the actual cost to me was £70 I am quite sure I can pass this on to the tenant plus my time in administering their late payment - so in this instance I should be charging £70 + £12.

 

Why should landlords stand the cost of a tenant paying late, there is also the massive amount of time taken with letter writing, hand delivering letters (due to postal srike) and the worry and stress of taking a non paying tenant to court - which costs hundreds of pounds and landlords are unlikely to recover plus possible damage, rent arrears etc.

 

Unfair - who said life was fair?

 

If you go to tesco and dont pay for your shopping they call it theft yet if a tenant doesnt pay for their housing thats ok! Stay there rent free until the L has spent a fortune to get you out months later.

 

 

That is your choice if you want to accept that you must pay £40 and £30 when we all know that it costs them £5 max and £12 for a letter would you accept that?! So why pass the bill onto the tenant?!!

 

Just as you want to be treated fairly you should do the same for the tenant.

 

Also the tenant has a duty to pay you; your moorage doesn't really have anything to do with her for all she knows you brought you property cash and her rent pays for your living expenses.

 

Deposits can't be used for rent they are supposed to be kept separately.

 

She paid you, she is not staying there rent free, and if you do need to take her to court the you claim that back from her. Unfair as in the Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977. Play ity by the book, you are alreay making money out of her why be greedy, otherwise she might end up taking you to court.

[sequenci]

This is excactly the same process as for bank charges.

 

Get that letter off

[Vanguard07]

There's a lot of hot air and indignation here. Isn't there anyone who knows the answer to the question? Are letting agents legally allowed to charge what they want, or are they limited to the same maximum costs as financial institutions. I'm not talking about private landlords, but agents who are governed by the Estate Agents Ombusdman. Is there a Code of Practice or legislation that governs this?

[Guest Alison82]

Sorry Vanguard.

 

The law applies to them as well despite that some of them may think, use the same process as you would for banks i.e. a letter before action (or maybe even a phone call would work, but it is better to have it in writing)

 

£23.50, £17.63 and £11.75 are not genuine costs, ask them to prove it!

[Maharg105]

Thanks for the people that actually contributed helpful advice. I think my first step will be to ask for proof that it cost him £25. If there is such a cost then I will of course pay it, but I am pretty sure there is not. As for not paying his mortgage, there were 5 of us in that house all paying £240 a month. I would be suprised if he was paying £1200 per month for the house we were living in.

 

Wotnot, I am not one of the tenants who has clearly upset you so very much. So unless you have an answer pertaining to my actual question rather than 'My advice - keep quiet and be thankful you were not charged the full amount.' I would appreciate it if you would follow your own advice. I informed him that I would be late in paying and was assured that was fine with no mention of charges, I haven't been underhand and I would ask that you actually read what I have written. I'm a bit irritated by the confrontational nature of your post and can't say that I expected it from this forum.

[Ed999]

This is a very simple problem.

 

If the o/p agreed this charge in the contract, then the o/p is contractually bound by that agreement.

 

The charge is validly imposed, since the contract expressly covers the point and the o/p admits that the rent was paid late on the occasions in question.

[Jeanjaquessmoothie]

no ed, you're wrong. it's an unfair term, same as the contracts with the banks. Penalty charges of any kind are unlawful.

[Holdred]

My old rental company charged me £20 a letter each time my rent was late, and for a period I was struggling quite a bit, so a week later another letter came deducting £20.

 

I think now I've moved out it's time to SAR them and see about reclaiming, I'd estimate that they probably owe me about £400 over two years.

 

I don't know how it'll go down, they do use quite a ruthless law firm in the town who might absolutely savage me

[Jeanjaquessmoothie]

doubt it, since it clearly doesn't cost them to charge £20 a letter. UNLAWFUL is unlawful

[wotnot]

Send the letter and let us all know how far it gets you.

 

I am a professional landlord and I look after my tenants well but I cant stand constant lies about when the rent will be paid. The more properties I own (meaning the more people I provide quality, affordable housing to) the more problem tenants I seem to have. It takes hours of time chasing tenants for money so I think that these charges are lawful.

 

Until a precedent is set by the courts I recommend that all landlords impose these charges as by not charging it tells the tenant they can do whatever they want, whenever they want. As with anything in life, until it affects your pocket most people keep on breaking the rules - speeding, illegal parking, drugs and not paying the rent.

[Holdred]

Send the letter and let us all know how far it gets you.

 

I am a professional landlord and I look after my tenants well but I cant stand constant lies about when the rent will be paid. The more properties I own (meaning the more people I provide quality, affordable housing to) the more problem tenants I seem to have. It takes hours of time chasing tenants for money so I think that these charges are lawful.

 

Until a precedent is set by the courts I recommend that all landlords impose these charges as by not charging it tells the tenant they can do whatever they want, whenever they want. As with anything in life, until it affects your pocket most people keep on breaking the rules - speeding, illegal parking, drugs and not paying the rent.

 

I was being paid weekly and it's amazing how many things come up throughout the month that need to be paid, and especially as I worked 5 days one week, 6 the next, so wages were all over the place.

 

I can see my situation is different to yours. £40 to generate a template letter is obsene, no phone calls or anything else. I can empathise that you may have do things differently and spend a lot more time in administration.

 

From what I have gathered from my former landlord, an admin person got a report, put an address on a letter and sent it out. Hardly worthy of £20 expenses + interest on top of that.

[Ed999]

no ed, you're wrong. it's an unfair term, same as the contracts with the banks. Penalty charges of any kind are unlawful.

 

 

Would you like to quote any legal authority for this?

 

My understanding is that the matter is certainly not cut-and-dried, and that even the issue of bank charges is the subject of a test case that has not yet been heard.

 

So what legal authority are you relying on? I'm genuinely interested to know.

[GlasweJen]

oh come on guys we're getting rusty! go read the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) which quite clearly states that all penalty charges must truly reflect the cost of administering them. It's also established in law (here in scotland anyway) that one cannot benefit materially from a breach in contract (no idea where, that's what my lawyer told me ages ago).

 

 

[Jeanjaquessmoothie]

Thanks Jen, you beat me to it

[GlasweJen]

Lol JJS, I couldn't resist, I've been shouting that particular bit of legislation from the rooftops since I started taking on the bank. How it can apply to banks and not landlords is beyond me.

 

all you bitter landlords: £40 to generate a letter :o that's one hell of a letter, fancy taking 7 hours to type it (assuming you're on min wage of £5.52 an hour) and then your £1.36 to cover stamp and envelope. If it takes 7 hours to type a letter how long does it take you to type your forum replies??

 

If I took that long to type a 1 page letter I'd be screwed, assuming your letter was a standard 500 words (ish) and your addresses are on a database that you can just merge in (reduces stress and typos you see) then us students should expect 70 hours to just type our 5000 word essays, longer if you add time for headers, footers, headings, references and footnotes and that Harvard citation thingy is a real challenge with all that punctuation and we need to live on £4400 a year and that's with a maximum student loan, we're getting ripped off Yes I'm getting shirty but it's people like you taking almost a whole days wage away in a wack because you know someone is struggling. The OP stated that she told her landlord the situation, payed him as much as she could and all because she was waiting on Housing Benefit. When that came through he was paid in full so I know where the landlord in question and everyone like him should stick their unfair, unlawful and most probably immoral penalty charges!

[Joa]

As i understand it you are only supposed to charge what it actually cost you to process/deal with the problem. (look at the bank issue) As the actual cost to me was £70

 

This is actually an interesting puzzle; if your £70 costs occurred because of unlawful bank charges, does it mean that your charges are unlawful in turn?

 

Why should landlords stand the cost of a tenant paying late, there is also the massive amount of time taken with letter writing, hand delivering letters (due to postal srike) and the worry and stress of taking a non paying tenant to court - which costs hundreds of pounds and landlords are unlikely to recover plus possible damage, rent arrears etc.

 

 

You are right; landlords are exposed to unscrupulous tenants. And vice versa. That's why landlords should always run financial and/or employment check on tenants, request deposit and maybe even require a guarantor; tenants though can have their remedies. So there is an equilibrium......well, nearly (somehow the scales tip more often towards those with assets, funny that)

 

Unfair - who said life was fair?

 

If you go to tesco and dont pay for your shopping they call it theft yet if a tenant doesnt pay for their housing thats ok! Stay there rent free until the L has spent a fortune to get you out months later.

 

Someone was recently snickering about my apparently bitter posts....

[GlasweJen]

Thing about Tesco is you're guaranteed that the bananas are not going to collapse in on you, you know for sure that bread you bought isn't about to have scaffolding put up to block the light and view that you payed good money for and the pears wont keep coming to "visit" without notice. Unless you live in your shopping trolley that really is no comparison.

[den3371]

I have a clause in my rental contract that I have to pay a percentage (not sure what it is without getting the original contract out) if I am late paying my rent. But there isn't a fixed amount just a percentage and I believe that it is if the rent is over 14 days late. Will hunt out my original contract and post back.