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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Do you have a "hardship" case you feel has been unfairly treated?!!!


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It was part of the agreement between the FSA/OFT and the banks that although current claims would be "stayed" that "hardship " cases would be filtered through.

 

If you feel that SINCE THE WAIVER you have

1) appealed against a stay on this basis and been refused

 

(Just to clarify, the courts have a right to stay any case but banks should

not apply for a stay in cases of hardship.)

 

2) contacted your bank and asked to be considered on this basis and been refused

3) had been offered a settlement which has now been retracted

 

Then if you would be willing to either pm me or post details here I am trying to help crfx collect data to send to the FSA.

 

Here is a link to the proceedure the banks were supposed to adhere to

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Re...ction_disp.pdf

 

And also an extract from the website announcement.

  • Consumers who have received a final response from the bank/building society which does not include an offer
    Consumers still have the option of complaining to FOS. However, the banks and building societies have also requested that the FOS does not consider any complaints about unauthorised overdraft charges until resolution of the test case.
  • Consumers who are in very difficult financial circumstances - 'hardship cases'
    Banks and building societies will have to conduct a filtering process to ensure that cases of genuine hardship are still dealt with during the waiver period. Cases of hardship would still be entitled to be referred to, and dealt with by, the FOS.

__________________

 

:) This is also a useful thread to read Success at A and L via hardship case route

 

 

 

thanks

 

Jan

__________________

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:-)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....cons/icon1.gifThe Stay - Here is the application grounds for the removal of the stay

 

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

  • Haha 1

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Unfortunately I think that most of the people that this may apply to - probably think they have lost their cases for the moment and are not on the site anymore - so I am not sure how I will get the response :(

 

But I will keep trying

 

Jan

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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i am claiming on beahalf of my oh and have contacted the banks telling them it is a hardship case. they have sent him an income/ expenditure form to fill in and then they will discuss his options ( i have a feeling they are about to offer a managed loan ) so if he ever gets around to doing that, i will let you know the result.

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  • 1 month later...
Unfortunately I think that most of the people that this may apply to - probably think they have lost their cases for the moment and are not on the site anymore - so I am not sure how I will get the response :(

 

But I will keep trying

 

Jan

 

hi, indeed, i am one of those people:rolleyes:. i sent my preliminary letter around august and got a reply in September regarding the new OFT ruling, and i assumed that big corporate money had won, and the case would go on for years and in the mean time we had lost.

 

i am facing serious hardship as i was made redundant, and im still in search of work, i have been eating into my savings which is running low, and ive tightened my belt up to its last hole, and knowing that abbey owe me about #3,200, and i would like to pay for an IT course that would greatly improve my employment chances, as well as have some money to use is quite infuriating. so i decided to check back on here tonight, and i am pleased to know that i may still have a chance.

 

i am doing a search through the threads as im sure the question of "whats the next step, if i am facing hardship, and received abbey's OFT stay defence until a ruling is made" has been asked many times.

 

but if anyone can help out with links pointing to the threads i should read or with info on what i do now, i would much appreciate it.

thanks

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Hi Jan

 

I've just found this thread, so I thought I would at least give it a little 'bump'. It is a really worthwhile thread and gets my vote.

 

Anyone reading this who has hardship problems, should post here or give Jan a PM. She is a wonderfull person interested in helping everyone. Even if you know exactly what you are doing, it's always worth a second opinion, or even some support, so come on people there are loads of us on here so get posting!!!!

 

Jan do you want me to post any of my details on here?? I know you have them but if I can help, just ask.

 

Simon:)

:)IF YOU ARE BORED WITH LITTLE TO DO:)

My Story - Simon -V- The (SH)Abbey - :!:WON / 19 November 2007:!:

 

SKY TV and the penalty charge - how far will it go?

 

Me V Its4me and Close Premium Finance:!:WON / 28 November 2007:!:

 

IF I CAN HELP, I WILL, IF I DO, THEN PLEASE CLICK ON THE SCALES ON THE LEFT

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i havent gotten to that stage yet tbh. i am facing hardship at the moment and i want to know the steps to take to applying to the court or if there is anythign i need to do in between. my last course of action was to send the letter asking for my money back, with my shedule of charges and i got the standard reply about the OFT case from Abbey.

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Hi Pirell

 

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles, I know how frustrating it is, when the bank don't listen. From what you say, I am not 100% sure exactly how you should proceed. I do know that you need to write to your bank identifying to them that you are suffering hardship. The definition used by the banks is very sketchy to say the least.

 

You will probably stand a much better chance if for example, your account is overdrawn and you are incurring charges that cause you to go further into debt. The fact you say you have savings to live on I wouldn't have thought will aid you in this. You must explain to the bank exactly why you are suffering from hardship as a result of their charges. You will also need to state your current financial position and offer proof of it, so don't just say you have more going out than coming in, unless you can prove it.

 

If you are on benefits, then this may help show your hardship status though not by itself.

 

I hope this has helped a little, it is not an exact science knowing what to write and tell them. There are no template letters for it as everybody's case is unique to them and they vary so much. You may want to look in on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/115023-application-removal-stay-grounds.html whilst it is primarily for removing stays, it does have some details about hardship and there should be some usefull links in there to.

 

I hope this helps you a little, if not ask again and I will try.

 

Simon:)

 

PS There may be some bits of interest to you in my bank thread, including the letter I wrote to my bank stating hardship. You might want to take a flask and sandwiches if you read it all mind.

:)IF YOU ARE BORED WITH LITTLE TO DO:)

My Story - Simon -V- The (SH)Abbey - :!:WON / 19 November 2007:!:

 

SKY TV and the penalty charge - how far will it go?

 

Me V Its4me and Close Premium Finance:!:WON / 28 November 2007:!:

 

IF I CAN HELP, I WILL, IF I DO, THEN PLEASE CLICK ON THE SCALES ON THE LEFT

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Hi

 

thank you for your kind comments:)

 

Here is an update as I see it ( and remember I am no expert! this is IMO)

 

In the wording on the first post I indicated the banks should not ask for a stay on a hardship case- now I think what the agreement meant was that the banks did not have to deal with these cases inCOURT - but should treat hardship cases in a different way and continue to "filter " them out and treat in a sympathetic manner at least.And the general opinion seems to be that they should have the charges refunded.

 

 

There is little point in trying to have stays overturned even on hardship grounds as even if you are successful the banks will appeal to have it put back on. The courts feel that f the OFT Court case goes ahead and is finalised in the customers favour(:rolleyes: ) you will get your money back fairly quickly - if not then the banks could appeal against any decisions and in some cases you will be liable for costs. So really the point of the waiver was to keep these cases out of the court system plus come to some answer that is fair to all - not just those who have got the gumption to go to court. So really the courts feel they are acting in your favour (at the moment)

 

If the case goes on longer than is thought,or is subject to appeals then this may all change as there are obviously complaints backing up in all directions so something else will have to happen.

 

Hardship-

as far as I can see the wording of the agreement for the court case was ambiguous and there seems to be some disagreement between banks such as Barclays who are saying that the clause does not mean they will pay out on such cases,and the A&L who have on at least one occasion.

The banking code is voluntary and does not set criteria as such for what a hardship case is. Some banks do put in writing what they base decisions on - others dont.

The FOS have said in some correspondence that for them to consider looking at cases now,the charges must have caused the hardship or must be worsening it. They will not consider cases where the person is in a bad financial position not caused directly by the charges and feels the refund of the charges would solve thier problems.

 

However the FOS do feel that the banks should be acting in accordance with the banking code in respect of how they treat hardship cases.

 

To be honest even if you try the FOS route and just get the charges frozen for a while it may help - and the more people who complain the bigger their backlog will be:D

 

If you write to the FOS then you must make it clear that you are basing your case on the fact you are a "hardship" case and should be dealt with on that basis.

 

CRFX is still trying to clarify what the FSA exactly meant by the clause and whether the banks are abusing the waiver agreement. This may not get the waiver lifted but may mean we have something in writing to base further correspondence on.

I will post a thread that may be useful that contains some wording that could be used in a last letter to the bank before complaining to the FOS

 

but remember this is a guide only - KEEP it personal- and emphasise how the charges are worsening your current position - or caused your current predicament.

 

Hope this explains things as I ( i emphasise I am not an expert!) see it.

 

any other opinions welcome.

 

 

An idea - any comments from mods and others?

 

 

jan

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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  • 3 weeks later...
Subscribing - I've sent some hardship letters and waiting for responses. Will update here if any positive news.

 

 

I suggest you both read the following threads

 

Quae - A&L my day in court

Simon in abbey national section

Carey anne in barclays - still fighting

and annoyed from Caerphilly - A&L ( may be in successes)

 

If you have problems finding any of them let me know.

 

There is also some interesting info on a thread in the forum -This site suggestions - a thread called "an idea any comments from mods?"

 

Some letters are in this thread and discussions about hardship criteria.

 

Jan

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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The FSA called me yesterday and told me to quote section 14 of the banking code to cahoot, this deals with hardship, they gave me this link

http://bankingcode.org.uk/pdfdocs/Banking%20Code%20Guidance%20March%202005%20FINAL.pdf

makes useful reading. They told me to complain to cahoot that they were ignoring my hardship claim and if I don't receive a positive response to complain about this as a seperate issue from my charges to the FSA. They gave me this link re complaints to the FSA

http://www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk/pdfs/complaint.pdf

Poppynurse :)

 

If my comments have been helpful please click my scales!!!!

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Good - glad that they are still being made aware that the banks are not even considering claims.

 

Keep going - at least there are no court fees involved so its worth battling on.

 

Jan

Please note I am not an expert - I am not offering opinions or legal help - Please use all the information provided on the site in FAQ- step by step instructions and library- thanks Jansus:)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif

offer from A&L 24/8/07 - after case stayed

 

"What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

 

 

PROUD TO BE AN ORANGE

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