Help needed with bank error!!!

[lizzy40]

I have a delicate issue with a Barclays business account, looking for some advise but am worried about listing on the forum due to its sensitivity can I send a private message to a modarater first to check its okay to list?

[slick132]

Hi Lizzy,

 

I'm not a Mod but am one of the peeps helping out on Barclays forum.

 

I'm also a succesful business charges reclaimer. If you're concerned because of sensitivity, PM me first and we'll see.

 

Slick

[blueskies]

Hi Lizzy, have sent you a PM

[lizzy40]

I have been very stressed over what has happened regarding my Business bank charges claim with Barclays. I know what I should have done and took them to court at the very beginning of my claim but I didn't so this is where I'm at. Hopefully someone can advise me what to do next?

 

First of all I originally started my claim in Feb 2007 for charges applied which came to approx £1500.00 the last correspondence I had from them was 27th April 2007 the letter basically stated they where sorry for the delay.

 

I then wrote on 18 June recorded delivery but no reply and again 11 September no reply. The September letter I also sent a copy to the ombudsman mainly because the time it was taking something didn't seem right.

 

Last week I had more charges applied to my business account totalling £500.00 this is what started the ball rolling.

 

Before the new charges where due to be applied to my account I wrote to my branch saying please don't apply any more charges to my account as I cant afford them, my business wont be able to function, you guessed it the charges were applied. I was fumming so decided to call a phone number which was on the last letter that I had from the bank regarding the original complaint. I told this banking assistant that I had sent in a complaint back in Feb and I still have not heard anything from them and now I have new charges applied to my account and asked whats going on.

 

She looked at my account (I'm still in shock) but she said we sent you out an offer in May 2007 I said but I didn't receive it so she checked my address details and apparently Barclays had sent the offer letter to my old PO box number which is over 7 years old and cancelled all my post comes to my business address which has done so for the last 7 years even my statments. I rang the Royal mail just to clarify what I already knew and they confirmed the box had been cancelled 7 years ago and if anything did come to that box it is retuned to sender so Barclays would have known this was a cancelled box number and should have looked into it. Why did'nt someone check this out they had managed to send other letters to me stating the delay in looking into my complaint to the correct address?

 

Apparently this offer letter was sent out in MAY 2007 5 months ago. Anyway Barclays said they would re sent the offer and that I should let then know in writing about the new charges and they will look into it at the same time. I was hoping someone could give me some advise on wording this letter which I need to returned when I get this long a waited offer not sure how much the offer will be four don't expect it to be for the full amount but I really don't want anything less this has been very time comsuming stressful and my business has stuffered and is still suffering...

 

Any advise will be appreciated.

[slick132]

Hi Lizzy,

 

Concentrate on making a full claim now for everything you've been charged to date. If they make an offer which you want to accept in the meantime, that's fine (but unlikely).

 

Follow this guide - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html

 

Fill in the spreadsheet including all the details required.

 

Print out the schedule of charges but hide the interest column.

 

Send new Prelim letter, then LBA 14 days after.

 

Stick to the timescale and you'll be fine.

 

Slick

[blueskies]

I will advise exactly as above but omitting the prelim letter. You have already stated your claim to them previously so all you need to do is a new LBA with the new charges and then proceed to court

[lizzy40]

I'm still waiting for my offer but would like to up date my situation.

 

Before I knew i had an offer waiting for me I decided to involve the FOS

I received a letter from the FOS on the 23 october however this was posted on the 4 october so my claim has moved on since then.

 

However a couple of comments the FOS have made I would like some advise on?

 

First as my account is a business and doesn't make any reference to the UTCCR court case believed it should have been looked at.

 

The FOS said.

As well as considering the satutory position of default bank charges under the UTCCR 1999, it is likely that the courts will also need to consider the common law position regarding penalty charges on all types of accounts. Therefore until there has been some guidance provided by the court, this service will not be able to take any such cases further at this stage.

 

My second point which is of hardship the FOS have said.

This means we are only able to take forward cases where a complainant is currently incurring charges on their account (which I am), which are causing existing financial difficulites (Which it is). It does not apply in cases where a complaintant may be suffering from difficulties unrelated to the account in question, but believes that a refund of charges may alleviate the problems.

 

Of cause it will alleviate the problem if the charges are refunded?

 

I don't understand?

 

Can anyone explain what they mean regarding the hardship case?

[slick132]

Hi Lzzy,

 

Have you re-started the reclaim process I set out in post #5 above by sending your LBA.

 

While the FOS should NOT reject your case because it is a BUSINESS a/c, you may find it easier to take the Court route and File claim at your local County Court.

 

The FOS definition of Hardship may differ from your own and this is another reason to file at court ASAP. The Court should NOT Stay a business claim.

 

Slick

[lizzy40]

Hi slick132 no I haven't started a new claim yet for the recent charges because due to the mix up regarding my original claim Barclays said when I get the original offer which has been sitting waiting for me for 4 months return it adding the new charges which have been since applied so thats what I have done. Wishful thinking that they will refund everything! If I haven't heard by the end of next week I will commence a new claim.

 

You mention that the FOS shouldn't reject my claim because its a business but they have?

 

You also mention the FOS's defination may be different to mine but there must be a right and a wrong?

 

I received a letter from my bank manager today regarding my over drawn balance of £500 which needs to be repaid within 7 days this amount is made up of charges so is this not classed as hardship!!!!

 

Its frastrating the FOS I thought where there to help?

 

Thanks for you time.

 

Lizzy

[slick132]

Hi Lizzy,

 

Experience from this forum tells me not to trust the bank re promises of "looking into your complaint" and "will reply fully within 8 weeks". That is why I think you should start your claim ASAP.

 

By all means, wait to see if you get a useful response - I really hope you do - just don't be surprised if it doesn't come.

 

Have you pointed out to FOS that yours is a business claim and is not concerned with the outcome of OFT case.

 

I don't think there is a black and white definition of hardship and I'm certainly not questioning if you are suffering it. I know, however, that many have tried to have stays removed on the grounds of hardship and judges have not agreed. How the FOS decides - who knows - but it isn't a case of right or wrong.

 

Re bank chasing for clearance of your o/d, you should be able to stop or at least stall them using the OFT Debt Collection Guidlines. Have a look here - http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf - section 2.8(k) may help if you are reclaiming unlawful charges.

 

This would perhaps be more effective if your case were back on track with your LBA reclaiming all charges to date.

[lizzy40]

I think your right slick132 most experiences on this forum do result in un kept promises by the banks. I will call them tomorrow to find out whats happening.

 

Yes I have pointed out to the FOS regarding a business claim I said that my complaint didn't mention the UTTCCR 1999 OFT court case and therefore should be look at, this is what they said:

 

As well as considering the satutory position of default bank charges under the UTCCR 1999, it is likely that the courts will also need to consider the common law position regarding penalty charges on all types of accounts. Therefore until there has been some guidance provided by the court, this service will not be able to take any such cases further at this stage.

 

Thanks for the link I will check this out.

 

Lizzy

[slick132]

Lizzy,

 

Thanks for your PM. I'm posting the main content of it below, so it's on your thread so others can help you if nec'y.

 

I've edited down the content slightly to avoid identifying exactly what has been done and by whom. Blueskies (Mod) has seen full version of your PM.

 

Quote from Lizzy's PM 28th Oct 2007:-

 

" I cant mention this bit on my thread as above will refresh your memory.

 

Well this letter I recieved yesterday regarding my account being over drawn was from my branch manager EDITED.

 

I rang him last Thursday but he wasn't their so left a message for him to return my call. He did the following day EDITED.

Anyway as he was not in the office couldn't do anything so he said he would call me back on Monday but didn't. This letter that I got was dated Wednesday but I recieved it Saturday.

 

Now this letter does look like a standard letter that would get sent out automaticly but it has his name on it and it also asked for me to call him but I'm waiting for him to return my call. He knows whats happening with my account he knows I have a refund of at least £1000 which will fetch my account back in line although its bank charge money which is my money again I'm owing them.

 

Under the cerconstances you would think that he would allow an overdraft facility to tie me over untill my refund comes through as I will no doubt have more charges added to my account on top of charges already added in September its like a vicious circle...

 

EDITED "

[slick132]

Lizzy,

 

I've little to add beyond what I put in post #10 above.

 

The bank have not re-issued the offer which they sent to your old address - it may be worth a further phone call to chase them on this but they are unlikely to offer you a full refund in any event.

 

The FOS are not going to help you further at this stage from the tone of their response.

 

That's why I think it's important for you to progress your claim with the bank, NOW !

 

If an acceptable offer is made to you before you File your claim at Court, you can take it and drop your current claim.

[lizzy40]

Up dated information.

 

Spoke with my bank manager today regarding the letter recieved Saturday for being over drawn and giving me 10 days to repay this money or my account will be passed to recovery unit.

 

Although this over drawn amount is all made of penalty charges.

 

Manager cant give me an over draft facility just tell my first claim refund comes through. Barclays have said they will honer this refund as they sent it to me in May but I didn't recieved it (Read full thread this will explain all).

 

My manager will contact the recovery unit to try and delay action while I'm waiting for my original offer.

 

However my manager cant help regarding the new charges that have been applied all he can do is offer a restructed loan so in theory they will be earning money on top of my money this doesn't seem fair.

 

This is hard work....

[slick132]

Lizzy,

 

IF any offer comes through from bank, it will only be a partial offer in reply to the amount you first claimed.

 

You started reclaiming approx 1500 in Feb. What chgs have you suffered since. I suspect you should claim everthing to date.

 

Update your SOC and this should be sent with LBA for the full current amount.

 

You need to quantify and formalise this claim to get the protection of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines and stop the bank taking recovery action or closing your a/c.

[lizzy40]

You are so right what they say over the phone and what they actually end up doing is misleading. I have probably wasted my time yet again.

 

I did my original claim such a long time ago forgot what to do?

 

So if I go ahead with another claim while I waiting for my offer assuming it wont cover both lots of charges where will I stand in repect of getting a refund which I need urgently. Its not going to happen is it!

 

Going on what is happening to everyone else on here most case's are being stayed.

 

What about if I take the offer of £100.50 and do another claim for the rest?

[slick132]

Lizzy,

 

What I suggest is you send your LBA off now but include ALL chgs to date - ie. all charges on orig'l claim + those charged since.

 

14 days later, you file N1 at court and you have proper grounds to halt any recovery action which the bank tries to take.

 

It's that simple, so do it now.

 

If better offer comes from bank, accept it and drop court proceedings.

[lizzy40]

Thanks slick132 I will get that sorted out today.

 

Many Thanks

[lizzy40]

On the advise of Slick132 was in the process of sending LBA however haven't sent yet. I don't know what to do now as received offer from bank!

 

What to do?

 

Offer arrived from Barclays today Saturday 3rd November!

 

Brief up date

 

Original offer sent out from Braclays in May 07 which I didn't recieve due to there error sending to wrong address.

 

This all come to light in October when I spoke to my business manager regarding new charges which had been applied to my account. Barclays re sent offer to my correct business address offer was £1050.00 - £600 pounds short of what I was asking. Due to there error on sending offer to wrong address and for the new charges of £500 which had been added which wouldn't have happened if I'd recieved offer back in May but I cant change that it happened and I have to accept it.

 

I was advised by my Barclays business manager to write back adding the new charges and explain what had happend with the offer going to wrong address which I did.

 

Hoping they would reconsider offer. I think he was having a laugh with me!

 

I have got a reply this morning which they apologise for the letter going to the wrong address but the offer remains the same.

 

So what to do now I feel my hands are tide and they are in the driving seat!

 

This would have turned out different if it was before the OFT's court case but my situation has changed and I need to check my options before I take the next step.

 

First of all is it worth taking court action for the full amount hoping they will back down and offer more?

 

What are the chances of that?

 

I'm worried if it goes to court it will be stayed and I'm pretty desperate for the refund now and Barclays are probably aware of this due to the added new charges.

 

If I except the offer can I still presue for the rest of the charges plus the additional new charges. Barclays have enclosed a form for me to sign in full and final settlement of my complaint with Barclays.

 

Any suggestions will be appreciated need to look at all options available and mainly due to my financial sitation at present.

[slick132]

Hi Lizzy,

 

As you say, if you rec'd the offer when it was originally sent (to wrong address), this would all now be different. You could have accepted and may not have suffered the more recent charges.

 

However, because the offer is not brilliant and you've incurred further chgs since, I would send LBA now for all chgs to date.

 

I very much doubt they will negotiate on the offer so, if you can manage to survive without their rerisory offer for a while, it is time to take them on.

 

As a business claim, it may not get stayed re OFT case and, even if it does, the OFT case may be nearly done by the time you get to court. Time for LBA now !

 

If, in the meantime, your own manager gets a full list of all chgs to date and decides to refund to you - great, but don't delay because this seems unlikely to happen. Try anyway if you want.

 

They are NOT in the driving seat at all. You ARE and it's time to take the wheel.

 

Slick

[tezl]

hi,

other side of coin and in no way dissagreeing with slick.depends greatly on how desparate you need dosh.

sounds like you need 1050 now.

that offer was for your claim up to around feb 2007.?

dont want to sound pessimistic.

in view of the fact no one knows what outcome of oft will be,ie,what percentage will be refunded,and how long it will take.

i am in buisness and sometimes £1000 now is better than a promise of £1800 further down line.

if that money helps to keep buisness on level footing then

i would take their offer for that claim.i think a lot of people would have took partial offer if they could see what was going to happen.re oft.and stays.

then start new claim for new charges .

you wont be able to pursue rest of charges for first claim,because you will be signing letter to that effect.

you say their letter says"complaint with barclays",check that its for ongoing case as opposed to all claims you may have for charges.

again not contradicting slick,but as he would agree every ones circumstances are different.

there you have the 2 options i think.

tez

[lizzy40]

Slick132 & Tezl thank you both....

 

Slick132 You make it sound so easy! Wish I was brave!

 

So if I refuse the offer go ahead with the LBA for the full claim it will be a gamble what way it will go? It could work out better in the long run but nobody has the answer to that knowing my luck if will be stayed. I must admit I would prefer to take that option. But my circumstances my have to take preference.

 

If I go ahead with the LBA will I be able to stop recovery action on my account - could they close my account?

 

If I have to wait until the OFT case is resolved I might be out of business by then.

 

Tezl I would and need to take this offer and there is a but!

 

The wording on the customer acknowledgement form

does say "in full and final settlement of my complaint with Barclays"

 

This sounds like I wouldn't be able to make a second claim for the new charges? Also as I have new charges already applied to my account part of this refund will be paying that its like a vicious circle....

 

If I don't sign it and just send a letter excepting this offer, whether they would agree to that I don't know?

 

I feel like I'm being pushed into a tight corner.

 

Wish someone had a magic wand!

 

On the other hand I musn't be ungrateful at least I got an offer....

[tezl]

hiya,

god,how many phrases are there to exsplain where they have you,lets be polite and say "rock and a hard place".

if you have included, complaining about new charges in letters to bs,then it looks like they have been very devious in their wording and look like they are trying to cover everything.

in the past claimants crossed out bs wording and inserted their own wording

ie,i except the offer as full and final settlement of this claim. thus leaving door open for another claim.

if you do use own letter and wording,put amount of original claim and what your excepting,this may separate it from other claims.if you do that and they enquire,tell them you lost original.reading your posts i think you would settle for this outcome.

 

the one thing that keeps bugging me is the fact that they have kept to original offer,obviously because they cocked up about adress.

which says to me they know they have cocked up and thats the only reason they are still offering.not from goodness of heart.

 

bear with me,personal exsperiance.make it short as poss.

 

inlaws had policy £2300 garranteed on first death.

mum in law died,sent of policy.

cheque came £800.......what.

complained.

they said they wrote to them 5 years ago saying premiums would have to increase, if they did not pay, policy amount would reduce.

they moved in with us ,so letter went to wrong address and they did not receive it.

we went to fos anyway we got full amount back for dad inlaw.

 

the big thing was that the insurance company did not make sufficient effort to make contact with them.so we won.

 

sound familiar,

i know its clouding water,but if you could prove new charges would not have happened if you had excepted offer that went to wrong address,,then new charges are bs fault for not making effort to find you and rectify their mistake.

have you already threatened with fos.?

ask slick about lba thing.

tez

[slick132]

Hi Lizzy,

Slick132 You make it sound so easy! Wish I was brave! - It IS easy for me because I can look at your thread objectively and voice MY opinions. YOU are the one who must be brave, take decisions, and live with the consequenses of your actions.

If I go ahead with the LBA will I be able to stop recovery action on my account - could they close my account? Once you put your claim back on track with LBA, including all chgs to date, you will have protection under OFT Debt Collection Guidelines which bank has to (or at least they should) abide by. Barclays are not known for retaliatory a/c closure and they risk being reported if they do this after you send LBA.

If I have to wait until the OFT case is resolved I might be out of business by then. - If taking their offer now prevents your business failing, you must do what you think is best. You CAN accept their offer on your terms by saying, "Your offer is accepted in full and final settl't of bank chgs made against my a/c up to (date of the last chge claimed in your Prelim letter)".

We can help you do this. You will remain free to reclaim all subsequent chgs made to your a/c after that date.

This sounds like I wouldn't be able to make a second claim for the new charges? Also as I have new charges already applied to my account part of this refund will be paying that its like a vicious circle.... - No - see my last comment.

Wish someone had a magic wand! - Don't we all, but until then, you have to take on the banks as 1,000's of others have done successfuly, and beat them by reclaiming what is rightfully yours.

I feel like I'm being pushed into a tight corner. - Of course you do, and the banks have been used to peeps backing down for too long. This site is about empowering peeps to stand up for themselves.

We on this site can't make the hard decisions for you - that is for you to do. However, we can and will back you up whether you decide to fight for some or all of your charges.

Slick

 

 

[tezl]

n 1 slick