Alf -v- A&L - MBNA - DEBT CLEAR - CABOT/RED - NOW CLARITY ON THE CASE

[alfwithhair]

Ok, Paul, thanks alot.

Well at least there will be no more post now till wednesday, so can have a well earned break from the DCAs ramblings.

Merry Xmas & a Happy New Year.

[The GodMother]

no the next post is not till thursday as RM have 2 days off.

[alfwithhair]

Hi all, Happy New Year.

Two letters from Debt Clear Recoveries & Investigations Ltd, Manchester.

Both dated 04-01-08 First one;

 

Dear Mrs X

Wrong account number again (second time now)

 

Your total debt of £XXXX has been referred to Debt Clear Recoveries & Investigations Ltd. (referred you say, Ahhh)

 

We have been instructed on behalf of MBNA Europe Bank Ltd to extend a generous offer to you in order to assit you in clearing the above outstanding debt. For a limited time only, we are prepared to negotiate a significantly reduced payment in short settlement of your outstanding balance. (is that right, well I wonder why that is then)

 

Given your current situation raising funds may be difficult, but have you concidered the following:

 

Requesting assistance from relatives and /or freinds. (sorry all skint)

 

Re morgaging your property (which property is this? I don't think the landlord would be too impressed by me doing this) which would release equity to pay off your creditors. The morgage interest rates are very competative at the moment and you might find you could even save some money.(HA HA, save me money my a**e)

 

Remember we will forego a significant proportion of you balance if you agree to settle this account. (I bet you would, as there is no CCA) This will also report on your credit file as being partially settled which would be more favourable for future applications for credit. To get started, all you need to do is call 0161 819 2288. (oh look, the same phone number as is on the dodgy default notice) One of our Account Mangagers will be happy to asist and answer any questions.

 

THIS OFFER EXPIRES 14 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THIS LETTER.

 

Miss Jennifer Matthews

Investigating Officer. (Sounding like the old bill now)

Now the second one:

 

Dear Mrs X

Correct account number for a change

Client MBNA

 

MBNA Europe bank Ltd have passed your unpaid account to us for collection. We are collection agents and the debt is now owned (rearly, you have actually bought a so far unenforceable debt. You plonkers. So MBNA are not your clients then are they if you have bought it. Do you think I am stupid) by us Debt Clear Recoveries & Investigations Ltd.

You now have a choice:

 

* Talk to us and sort it out privately and wisely. (on the phone so there is no record of any lies you will be telling me, Don't think so)

* Ignore us and we will be forced to take further action to recover the outstanding debt. (send more of your pathetic begging letters)

 

We now give you the opportunity to contact us to discuss this matter and make arrangements to resolve the issue. if you already have any arrangements in place please call to discuss these with us. (I will give it a miss if its all the same to you)

 

Please contact 0161 819 2288 (its that number again)

Miss Jennifer Mattews

(but she is not investigating Officer now, must of got the boot for the cock ups on her first letter)

So has any one out there had dealings with this crowd? I can't say I have heard of them.

Should I just send them the usual, CCA'ed OC account in dispute letter. or not even bother replying?

Thanks again for any help

Alf

[SteveH2508]

Alf

we are still in step - same BS letters (same c*ck up on account numbers - same dates). I'm drafting my CCA letter as we e-speak!

[The GodMother]

Hi Alf,

 

Hope you have had a good christmas and new year.

 

I am sure your landlord would be impressed if you remortaged ther house, You must have begging letters from them every day asking you to do that. :D .

 

Found this for you DEBT CLEAR RECOVERIES & INVESTIGATIONS LIMITED credit report and annual accounts from Companies House - Tuesday 8th January 2008

 

It gives you some details about the company.

 

Really l think it is up to you what u do. I would send them a letter advising them that MBNA are in deafult of a legal CCA request and as a result of this the OFT guidelines on debt collect prohibits them from collection on this debt.

 

You could always just CCA them. It is fun watching some companys back pedal quickly.

 

Chrissi

[alfwithhair]

Hi GM,

 

yes I had a pleasant break at my sons over the new year.

 

I notice from companies house that this lot are like Mercers with their non trading status and dormant accounts. But want all payments made payable to them, so how can they be a domant company if they are receiving and processing payments?

 

Name & Registered Office:

 

DEBT CLEAR RECOVERIES & INVESTIGATIONS LIMITED

TRINITY HOUSE

16 JOHN DALTON STREET

MANCHESTER

M60 8HS

Company No. 02877251

 

 

Status: Active

Date of Incorporation: 02/12/1993

 

Country of Origin: United Kingdom

Company Type: Private Limited Company

Nature of Business (SIC(03)):

7499 - Non-trading company

7487 - Other business activities

Accounting Reference Date: 31/12

Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/12/2006 (DORMANT)

Next Accounts Due: 31/10/2008

Last Return Made Up To: 02/12/2007

Next Return Due: 30/12/2008

[The GodMother]

Well it is a shame they are not going to be recieveing money from you.

 

I thought dorman companys could not recieve money or have to file accounts?

 

well l may be wrong but l thought l read it on a different thrread.

 

Chrissi

[alfwithhair]

Well I too was under the same impression GM. But as you point out they will not be processing any of my payments

 

I have read an other sites this morning that this crowd are particulary intimidating, saying they are coming to sieze goods from your house, so I await their ideal threats with baited breath.

 

They are on to a loser for sure if they start that kind of harrassment.

[The GodMother]

yep same ere as that would be classed as theif and l would call the police for you.

 

You could always report them to TS as they are breaking the rules of debt collection and the police for harassement.

 

I would also report MBNA to the OFT as they are trying to enforce a unenforcable debt.

 

Up to you tho.

 

Chrissi

[pt2537]

Hi all, Happy New Year.

 

Two letters from Debt Clear Recoveries & Investigations Ltd, Manchester.

 

Both dated 04-01-08 First one;

 

Dear Mrs X

Wrong account number again (second time now)

 

Your total debt of £XXXX has been referred to Debt Clear Recoveries & Investigations Ltd. (referred you say, Ahhh)

 

We have been instructed on behalf of MBNA Europe Bank Ltd to extend a generous offer to you in order to assit you in clearing the above outstanding debt. For a limited time only, we are prepared to negotiate a significantly reduced payment in short settlement of your outstanding balance. (is that right, well I wonder why that is then)

 

Given your current situation raising funds may be difficult, but have you concidered the following:

 

Requesting assistance from relatives and /or freinds. (sorry all skint)

 

Re morgaging your property (which property is this? I don't think the landlord would be too impressed by me doing this) which would release equity to pay off your creditors. The morgage interest rates are very competative at the moment and you might find you could even save some money.(HA HA, save me money my a**e)

 

Remember we will forego a significant proportion of you balance if you agree to settle this account. (I bet you would, as there is no CCA) This will also report on your credit file as being partially settled which would be more favourable for future applications for credit. To get started, all you need to do is call 0161 819 2288. (oh look, the same phone number as is on the dodgy default notice) One of our Account Mangagers will be happy to asist and answer any questions.

 

THIS OFFER EXPIRES 14 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THIS LETTER.

 

Miss Jennifer Matthews

Investigating Officer. (Sounding like the old bill now)

 

Now the second one:

 

Dear Mrs X

Correct account number for a change

Client MBNA

 

MBNA Europe bank Ltd have passed your unpaid account to us for collection. We are collection agents and the debt is now owned (rearly, you have actually bought a so far unenforceable debt. You plonkers. So MBNA are not your clients then are they if you have bought it. Do you think I am stupid) by us Debt Clear Recoveries & Investigations Ltd.

 

You now have a choice:

 

* Talk to us and sort it out privately and wisely. (on the phone so there is no record of any lies you will be telling me, Don't think so)

 

* Ignore us and we will be forced to take further action to recover the outstanding debt. (send more of your pathetic begging letters)

 

We now give you the opportunity to contact us to discuss this matter and make arrangements to resolve the issue. if you already have any arrangements in place please call to discuss these with us. (I will give it a miss if its all the same to you)

 

Please contact 0161 819 2288 (its that number again)

 

Miss Jennifer Mattews

(but she is not investigating Officer now, must of got the boot for the cock ups on her first letter)

 

So has any one out there had dealings with this crowd? I can't say I have heard of them.

 

Should I just send them the usual, CCA'ed OC account in dispute letter. or not even bother replying?

 

Thanks again for any help

Alf

 

 

Re arrange these words to find the answer,

 

Ar$e out Talking of

 

 

seriously, the first letter is well out of order and breaches OFT guidelines as they are telling you to seek further credit and burden yourself with more debt

 

im sure we can find a reply to these idjits, i will check with Curly to see if he has anything on file, if not then i will draft as reply for your consideration

 

regards

paul

[SteveH2508]

Here is my first draft:

 

Ms Jennifer Matthews

Debt Clear Recoveries & Investigations Ltd

PO Box 595

Manchester

M60 5AR

 

9th January 2008

Re Account No.XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX or XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

Dear Ms. Matthews,

I refer to your two letters, both dated 4 January 2008, quoting different Account numbers, relating to MBNA.

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY.

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with MBNA and has been since 27th March 2007.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998. I am also confused as to why there are now two different account numbers.

 

Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On 13th March 2007 I requested MBNA to supply me a copy of the credit agreement covering this account pursuant to section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. To date, MBNA have failed to comply properly with my request. Without production of the said agreement and associated documentation, complying with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you or MBNA, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

MBNA have been in default since 27th March 2007 and as such, are precluded from enforcing the agreement by virtue of section 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. As things currently stand, section 127(3) of the 1974 Act applies and any court is precluded from enforcing the agreement as well. I would also point out that the purported Default Notice served by MBNA is invalid which also precludes any enforcement action.

In addition, I would draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection.

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states:-

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true copy of the executed agreement and the associated documentation as required by section 78(1) the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such. I enclose a £1 postal order as payment of the statutory fee for this request.

THIS PAYMENT IS FOR THE S78 REQUEST AND MAY NOT BE USED FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE.

 

The 1974 Act requires that you comply with this request within 12 working days of the date of this letter. Section 175 of the Act requires you to action this request or to pass it on the original creditor. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such an agreement does not exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well.

 

No other correspondence will be accepted.

 

If no credit agreement can be produced, I suggest you give consideration to writing off this debt. Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful.

 

Yours faithfully

SteveH2508

SteveH2508

 

 

My timescales/letters are identical to Alf's. MBNA have only provided me with an illegible BoS application form - no T&Cs or statements of account.

 

I am slightly unsure about tipping them off about the invalid default notice (completely different account number) and am wondering whether I should ask for a copy of any Deed of Assignment.

Any thoughts please CAGgers?

[The GodMother]

Steve,

 

I would advise that you start your own thread about this as ppl will be able to advice you more.

 

You could always post what you have already done/recieved on the new thread, and you could always post a link to it on this thread.

 

Chrissi

[SteveH2508]

Steve,

 

I would advise that you start your own thread about this as ppl will be able to advice you more.

 

You could always post what you have already done/recieved on the new thread, and you could always post a link to it on this thread.

 

Chrissi

 

I do have an old thread on this shower. The reason I posted this draft here was because mine and Alf's circumstances are virtually identical and I was posting this draft to both help him/her? and to get some comments.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/69599-steveh2508-mbna.html

[alfwithhair]

Well decided to phone the plonkers at MBNA to see where to what they are supposed to be doing regarding my CCA request they signed for months ago.

Woman I spoke to was reasonably helpful, but as expected could find no record of such a request. What was strange though was she could also find no record of any involvement of Debt Clear Recoveries & Investigations Ltd who claim they now own the debt or the non-compliant Default Notice they sent.

So have sent another CCA request and the fee to Debt Clear Recoveries, signed for yesterday. So lets see what old tosh they come up with.

I did receive another letter from DCR this morning. Again quoting an incorrect account number same one as the dodgy default MBNA sent.

Dear Mrs X

 

We have been instructed on behalf of MBNA Europe Bank Ltd to extend a generous offer to you, (instructed, mmmm, that doesn't sound like you owe it then, so you telling me porkies in your last letter then) to assist you in clearing the above outstanding debt. (Well matey, there is no debt under that account number)

 

We will accept 50% of the outstanding sum in short settlement and will not pursue the reaining balance. (Ok, 50% of nothing is nothing, I like the sound of that)

 

THIS OFFER EXPIRES 14 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THIS LETTER.

 

Ring 0161 819 2288 for details

Your account Manager is waiting for your call. (well you be waiting a long time boyo, so I hope you have a flask and some grub)

 

MR F CRAINE

Investigating Officer. (what is with this investigating officer bit, I know these DCA's think they are a law unto themselves, but they are sounding like they are the law now, )

What a shower of idiots, worse than MBNA themselves

[spiritgirl59]

LOL Alf

 

We've had a letter from Link (for MBNA) today apologising for the delay in responding to our CCA request .... its only 6 months since we sent it!! :o

 

....and they have enclosed a one page illegible photocopied freepost application form which they have apparently spent all this time trying to locate!!

 

They say...wait for it.. now I have the document I requested I should phone to discuss repayments"

 

Yes and I've just seen a flock of pink pigs flying past my window !!!

 

Love SG x

[The GodMother]

LOL alf and spirit girl.

 

Glad you are accepting the payment offer alf is the 50% of nothing tax refundable?

 

Chrissi

[hellhasnofury]

Hello

 

Just found your thread and see that you are having great fun with the shower of total idiot bully boy at the mbna.

 

The are a law unto themselves, or so they think:p

 

Wishing you luck and best wishes

[SteveH2508]

So have sent another CCA request and the fee to Debt Clear Recoveries, signed for yesterday. So lets see what old tosh they come up with.

 

I did receive another letter from DCR this morning. Again quoting an incorrect account number same one as the dodgy default MBNA sent.

 

Dear Mrs X

 

We have been instructed on behalf of MBNA Europe Bank Ltd to extend a generous offer to you, (instructed, mmmm, that doesn't sound like you owe it then, so you telling me porkies in your last letter then) to assist you in clearing the above outstanding debt. (Well matey, there is no debt under that account number)

 

We will accept 50% of the outstanding sum in short settlement and will not pursue the reaining balance. (Ok, 50% of nothing is nothing, I like the sound of that)

 

THIS OFFER EXPIRES 14 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF THIS LETTER.

 

Ring 0161 819 2288 for details

Your account Manager is waiting for your call. (well you be waiting a long time boyo, so I hope you have a flask and some grub)

 

MR F CRAINE

Investigating Officer. (what is with this investigating officer bit, I know these DCA's think they are a law unto themselves, but they are sounding like they are the law now, )

 

What a shower of idiots, worse than MBNA themselves

 

Hi Alf

Snap! Again!

 

Same letters - same cr*p - different Investigating Officer for me.

I have also CCAed them with my letter above (slightly amended) so we wait....

 

Let's see if the Investigating Officer can investigate and find a compliant CCA. Forgive me if I do not hold my breath...

[The GodMother]

I dont think the investigating officer can find thier reading glasses let alone a CCA.

[alfwithhair]

Well after sending yet another CCA request to Debt Clear regarding this MBNA account I received a reply this morning on Alliance & Leicester headed paper.

 

 

You can see it states they have

"enclosed a copy of the original application form"

"Terms and conditions"

"Recent statement of account"

 

 

Now, there is the same problem here as last time. The account number on the letter is the correct one. But the account number on the staement is not. The number on this is the same incorrect one as was on the dodgy default notice that MBNA sent (see previous posts) But upon looking closely at the statement it appears that the account number has been changed but they didn't bother to inform us. On the statement it says "trans from xxxxxxxxxxxx" this number being the account number on the letter. So it is all very confusing.

 

Now what they have sent as a CCA is indeed just a rather rubbish barely readable copy of the original application form form 1996.

 

 

There is no sign of any prescribed terms contained with in the form, however there is a small section of some kind of terms at a different angle that must of been behind the form when they copied it, but you cannot read what they say.

 

(con't)

[alfwithhair]

There is then four pages of terms and conditions

 

 

But it is the heading on these term that is puzzling me

 

 

This is a copy of your agreement?

This whole case is just a mis-mash of confusion.

It this rubbish they have sent enforceable or not please?

Thanks as always

ALF

[vinegarvera]

Subbing

[pt2537]

Alf,

 

Can you confirm if there is within the terms and conditions which they have labeled "credit agreement" anything which says how much the late payment fees will be? are they set at 12 quid or something else

 

we merely need to discredit them as not being part of the agreement, which is easy if they have the late payment charge set at 12 quid as the OFT fairly recently told credit cards to lower their fees to to less than 12 quid

 

my gut feeling is its a L.O.B. if you get what i mean;)

 

i donot believe its enforceable

 

regards

paul

[alfwithhair]

Hi Paul,

These are modern MBNA terms and conditions.

The card was taken out as an A&L card in 1996. So they can't possibably be the terms relating to the account when it was opened. MBNA took over the account about 3-4 years ago.

 

And it appear that the account has been given another account number since alegedly being sold to Debt Clear. As this MBNA statement shows a transaction equal to the balance owing having been transfered from the original account number to this new one, which is the same as the one on the dodgy default. But MBNA has never metioned about any account number change.

 

The payment fees on this so called aggrement/terms state;

 

If you break the agreement, you must pay the following default charges.

£0.00 each time that your payment has not reached your account in cleared funds by the date your payment is due

£12.00 each time a cheque, direct debit, a credit-card cheque or other item for payment is unpaid.

£0.00 each time the account balance goes over your credit limit

Any other losses and costs we suffer as a result of you breaking the agreement.

We will add these directly to your account.

 

There is also no signiture boxes on this so called agreement/term thing either, no account number, name, addresses nothing, these or just T&C I think no matter what they head them up as.

 

The other thing is clearly just an application form, they say as much in their letter.

[pt2537]

oh well, game over then IMHO

 

totally unenforceable , thats my opinion mate