AlexTEH vs Cabot & Capital One

[alexteh]

Got a nastygram from Cabot this week regarding an old Capital One card. I know for a fact the limit on the card was only £200 and that any amount owed now is charges as I am certain I paid it off years ago but I CCA'd Cabot so we'll see what happens.

[Seahorse]

Welcome to the Club.

[alexteh]

Well, exciting news. I got a very polite letter from Cabot today explaining how they love to help people who are in debt and that they are very happy to pass my CCA request to the original creditor and will pass the information on to me in due course. I think they may have mentioned that their office is full of cute fluffy bunnies and that they all pop out during their lunch breaks to help old ladies cross the road, feed the homeless and deliver gifts to sick children but it was pretty much inferred by the tone of their letter.

 

I am so excited that Cabot want to help me by getting a CCA from Capital One that I can barely contain myself with anticipation.

[Seahorse]

It's a bit early for cynicism.

 

Oh, wait. It's Cabot you're talking about. In which case, it's NEVER too early to be cynical.

[alexteh]

I can't believe how mean everyone here is to them! Their letter to me was very nice and I am convinced that this is the view from their office window:

 

[Coasters]

Oh that has made my day

[Seahorse]

Awwww.... just totally idyllic. What a lovely day you're having.

 

Just watch, some barsteward is bound to come along and spoil it.

[mrmarmite]

i guess you are a teletubbie fan then lmao

[alexteh]

I've discovered Cabot may not be as cute and friendly as they first appear. This picture was taken in the Cute Fluffy Kitten Room in their offices:

 

[alexteh]

Apparently the nice fairies are still working at Cabot. I had another very polite letter from them this morning with a copy of all statements from Crap1 but still no CCA. Interestingly, the statements show a whole heap of £20+ fees which I will now have to contest. I've not had a chance to go through and add them all up but it could well exceed the amount of the alleged debt.

[Seahorse]

That sounds like the sort of thing to pester Cap1 about. Silly people. And if it turns out that Cap1 owe YOU money, then you might have cause to seek financial redress for the suffering they've put you through. And Cabot too, if they continue to insist you owe money.

 

Maybe send Cabot a breakdown of charges and ask if THEY would like to pay it back.

[Coasters]

Awww but think about all the little fairies

[Seahorse]

Talking of fairies, I do hear tell Willem likes to have things both ways.

 

Rights AND duties when it suits them, rights, BUT NOT the duties when it doesn't.

 

(Just thought I'd better qualify my statement to avoid being CAGbotted. )

[alexteh]

Hmmm does anyone know a good debt collection agency? Apparently, Cabot are chasing me for a £300 which according to the statements they kindly provided me includes £600 of illegal charges.

 

I am thinking Seahorse is right and that I should be writing to them with something similar to:

 

Dear Cabot,

 

I thank you for your recent letter in which you claim I owe your client £300 and thank you for providing the statements which clearly show that you have it backward and that your client actually owes me £300.

 

If you could therefore enclose a cheque for this amount, I will consider the matter closed. Failure to respond favourably within 14 days will result in me beginning legal proceedings to reclaim this money and I will also consider action against yourselves and your client for defamation of character by implying in my credit file that I owe you money when the opposite is actually true.

 

 

 

[Seahorse]

Try Ruthbridge. They don't seem to care HOW they do business.

[alexteh]

If I don't want to bother with all the hassle of reclaiming the money I'm owed, do you think anyone would purchase the debt from me for £50?

[Seahorse]

HAHA. Try Lowells.

[alexteh]

Here's what I think I'm going to send to Cabot. My only concern is that they have not yet supplied a CCA.

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION – NOTICE OF INTENDED PROCEEDINGS IN THE COUNTY COURT

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated XX 2007 which I received recently and thank you for supplying copy statements for this account.

 

Having looked through the copy statements you have provided, it is clear that the debt consists entirely of illegal charges and I therefore point you to the recent Office of Fair Trading ruling on this matter.

 

 

You claim that I owe £XXX when in fact, the account includes a total of £XXX (about double what they claim I owe) of these illegal charges plus £XXX interest (calculated at the statutory rate of 8%) which makes a total of £XXX (about 2.5x what they claim I owe).

 

I therefore require full payment of £XXX (the amount they owe me less what they claim I owe them) within 14 days or I will instigate legal action to recover this money.

 

As your client is further unable to supply a copy of any agreement between us, they will have also breached the Data Protection Act by processing any data related to me. This is also true for any third party (such as yourselves) acting on their behalf.

 

I therefore further demand that you confirm to me IN WRITING that:

 

•You and your client are no longer processing any data related to me.

•You and your client have removed any data related to me from databases maintained by Experian, Equifax and all other credit reference agencies.

 

I appreciate your prompt attention to this serious matter.

Yours sincerely,

[ScarletPimpernel]

Suggestion: delete 'illegal' and insert 'unlawful'

[Seahorse]

Your client? I'd probably delete that and name names.

[alexteh]

SP and Seahorse - thank you for your advice - I've made both those changes and will be posting the letter tomorrow.

[alexteh]

I got sent on a course in London so hadn't had a chance to post the letter which it turns out may have been a blessing.

 

Cabot have today responded to my CCA request with a document from Capital One which is signed by me. It is entitled "CREDIT AGREEMENT" but appears not to contain any of the prescribed terms and the first line reads "Please issue me a Capital One Credit Card and PIN" and goes on to talk about credit scoring, etc.

 

I've amended my orginal letter to take this into account and will be posting the following:

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letters dated XX 2007 and XX 2007 which were received recently and thank you for supplying copy statements for this account and what purports to be a copy of a credit agreement between myself and Capital One.

 

 

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain prescribed terms.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

The Prescribed Terms are these:

A.Amount of credit - A term stating the amount of credit

B.Repayments - A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following:

a)Number of repayments;

b)Amount of repayments;

c)Frequency and timing of repayments;

d)Dates of repayments;

e)The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

 

C. Rate of interest - A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D.Credit limit - This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

 

 

For a Running Account (credit card), terms B, C and D described above apply.

 

 

If I can draw your attention to the document that you have provided me entitled “Capital One Credit Agreement”, it will be obvious that this is not in fact a credit agreement at all – it complies with none of the prescribed terms outlined in the Consumer Credit Act. In fact, the wording of the very first sentence of this document which states “Please issue to me a Capital One Credit Card and PIN” clearly shows that this document is actually no more than an application form.

The law states that if any of the prescribed terms are missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and any court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

This brings me onto my second point. Having looked through the copy statements you have also provided, it is clear that the alleged debt consists entirely of unlawful charges.

 

 

I therefore feel that I ought to point you to the recent Office of Fair Trading ruling on this matter which was based on the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, as these charges are unfair and not proportionate to any costs incurred, and therefore the court will rule in my favour. As I am sure you are aware, the Office of Fair Trading also stated in its April 2006 statement into credit card charges that it considers charges are at a higher level than is legally fair.

 

 

You claim that I owe £307.80 when in fact, the account includes a total of £640 of these unlawful charges plus £141.29 interest (calculated at the statutory rate of 8%) which makes a total of £781.29 in illegal charges.

 

 

I therefore require full payment of £473.49 within 14 days or I will instigate legal action to recover this money.

 

 

As Capital One is unable to supply a copy of a credit agreement between us containing all of the prescribed terms, they will also have also breached the Data Protection Act by processing any data related to me. This is also true for any third party (including yourselves) acting on their behalf.

 

I therefore further demand that you confirm to me IN WRITING that:

 

•You and Capital One are no longer processing any data related to me.

•You and Capital One have removed any data related to me from databases maintained by Experian, Equifax and all other credit reference agencies.

 

I appreciate your prompt attention to this serious matter.

Yours sincerely,

[alexteh]

I am beginning to wonder if Cabot can't read. They wrote back claiming that the "application form" was indeed a valid CCA and that they didn't need to provide it anyway as they had purchased the debt and weren't the OC. They also enclosed copies of all the statements they sent before as well as the alleged CCA but this time with parts of it highlighted with a highlighter pen which back up their view that it is a credit agreement (ignoring the bits that show that it isn't).

 

They completely ignored my comments about the unlawful charges and suggested that I ought to pay up.

 

Next step is to write back to them today and reiterate my points about the unlawful charges and also suggest to them that they had been mis-sold the debt by Capital One on the basis that C1 had known since at least last spring that the charges were unlawful).

 

I've also put a letter together to Crap1 demanding the charges be repaid to me in full including interest.

[Seahorse]

Sounds like the Template-O-Matic has been in action again, and the tea boy has been let loose with his colouring-in kit.

 

I wouldn't bother trying to argue with them. They'll never admit any different. Just tell them that unless they write to tell you they are stopping all collection action, you'll report them to everybody in the phone book. Well, TS, OFT, ICO, CSA, FSA anyway.

[alexteh]

They've finally agreed that the charges on this account more than equal the alleged debt and, in order to just get it out of the way, I've agreed that they will zero the account and consider the matter closed. I'm still fighting to have the default removed from my credit file.