MoonHawk vs Cabot cap1 debt

[MoonHawk]

I have been going back and forth with Cabot for a while now, and they keep sending me the same document over and over again which is the same as the one sent by the original OC (Capital One). Today, shock horror, I also got the T&Cs on the back that go with it, along with a looooong letter. I thought I better start a thread for it and join the fan club

 

Front

Back (T&Cs)

 

I'll post the letter when I have sent my reponse.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[Seahorse]

So where are clauses 8, 10 and 23? Come on, the T&C's say you signed an agreement with them in, so it MUST be true. Admit it... you're just trying to evade a legitimate debt, aren't you??

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

They really should go back to CCA school and try again.

[dpick]

Clauses 8, 10 and 23 on the t&c you signed with us if they could show the T&C you signed in conjunction with an agreement then it might be an enforceable agreement this just shows you signed something but what application?????? I could have cut and pasted that T&C document from my MBNA T&C and put capital one address details etc on them.

 

try again Capital one off

 

dpick:)

[MoonHawk]

You're in a good mood Seahorse

 

I take it you are referring to the:

"These terms are taken from clause 8, 10 and 23 of the Terms and Conditions that you sign with us."

 

If that amuses you so much, you will love the letter they sent with it.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[MoonHawk]

I am not sure about enforceability even then dpick.

 

59 Agreement to enter future agreement void

(1) An agreement is void if, and to the extent that, it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor or hirer into a prospective regulated agreement.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[dpick]

Hi as I posted "in conjunction with an agreement "

 

I totally agree re application, they really think we are a bunch of mugs.

 

all the best dpick:)

[Seahorse]

Can't wait to see the letter.

 

And yes, I'm i a good mood. Even if my bank account has just had an arrestment order placed on it for unpaid council tax.

 

A debt that would never have happened if the banks and sundry other financial institutions hadn't seen fit to buy a horse called Bess and take to wearing a mask for the past 14 odd years, I might add.

[patrickq1]

i will probably get to see your response moon before the page of your t and cs download lol snail can race faster

[patrickq1]

i like the section 4 under strict secrecy think i will be a secret agent

[conar686]

MH

 

This has got to be an application or pre-contract bllx. I do not see the default info 'a required term' ergo not enfirceable without an order from the court

 

Add this to your complaints to TS

[MoonHawk]

Thanks Conar

 

I know it is not enforceable without the order of the court. I wanted to make sure it is unenforceable by a court as well.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[MoonHawk]

How does this sound:

 

Thank you for your letter dated the 24th September 2007, outlining your position in relation to the request under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA 1974).

 

In your letter and accompanying documentation you have stated that you “have purchased the account from Capital One” and are entitled to enforce the original terms of the credit agreement. In the same letter you have claimed that Cabot has no obligation under section 77 and/or 78. These statements are contrary to each other. To be able to enforce the terms of the original agreement, you are required to have an absolute assignment, which by nature would also bring to you the duties and liabilities associated with the alleged agreement. As an equitable owner, you will be unable to enforce any terms of the agreement, and also be prohibited from taking any legal action without the specific involvement of the other owner. I am still unclear as to the nature of the assignment.

 

As you have sent these documents twice in response to my request and in your letter have claimed that it includes the copy of the credit agreement requested, then these statements by you are now binding on you as per section 172 of the CCA 1974. This means that the documents you have sent are the only documents you may now rely on in any attempt at enforcing these allege debt. No further documents may be used as they were not provided in response to my lawful request.

 

I maintain that the allege debt is completely unenforceable under Section 127 of the CCA 1974, as the copy of the document you sent is the application form Mrs MoonHawk signed to open the account and not a copy of the executed regulated agreement under the CCA 1974.

 

Placing emphasis on the title “Credit Agreement” and the words “Credit Agreement Regulated By The Consumer Credit Act 1974” using a highlighter pen Yes they did this!does not make the document an agreement. The CCA 1974 clearly outlines the essential prescribed terms required for an agreement, which are not included in this document.

 

On the document you will also notice a bar-code with the words “Application Form” and in the body of the text you will also note the words “I authorize Capital One to search the files of any credit reference agency for my application” and “Capital One uses a technique known as credit scoring in deciding whether to open an Account in your name”. These terms can not exist on an agreement as an agreement is void if it purports to bind a person to enter as debtor into a prospective regulated agreement. Please refer to section 59(1) of the CCA 1974 for clarification. I'm considering sending a highlighted version bacl

 

You also suggested that I made a mistake in questioning the fact that you sent statements in response to my request for a “statement of account”. You stated that the words “statement of account” means showing the transactional history and has no other meaning. I suggest you strongly become familiar with the Consumer Credit Act before calling into question another person’s understanding of the law.

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

 

Therefore, according to th epoints raised above, I do not agree with your statement that all obligations of both parties under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act have been satisfied.

 

I look forward to hearing your response.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[Seahorse]

I look forward to their response too.... although I strongly suspect it will be the usual, "We've clarified our position on numerous occasions, so pay up" bullsheet.

[Curlyben]

That and they'll bring out the old LoP s136 argument, which Moonie has already hinted at

[elizabeth1]

I have been going back and forth with Cabot for a while now, and they keep sending me the same document over and over again which is the same as the one sent by the original OC (Capital One). Today, shock horror, I also got the T&Cs on the back that go with it, along with a looooong letter. I thought I better start a thread for it and join the fan club

 

Front

Back (T&Cs)

 

I'll post the letter when I have sent my reponse.

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

 

Priceless !!!! another useless attempt at showing their CCA attempts

they do make me laugh loads

 

Well - it will be interesting to see what they come up with next - their art department must be run off their feet :D

[conar686]

Good letter MH

[MoonHawk]

The highlighter pen work is what really got me. I am seriously contemplating doing one in return and highlighting all the bits that make it a prospective regulated agreement I think I'll make seahorses day and do that

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

[Seahorse]

It's not the first time someone in Cabot has got their colouring crayons out. They sent me my application form again with that bit highlighted to remove any doubt that I was just a naughty boy, and do as I'm told, because I'm too young to know any better. They're right, and that's that.

 

I like your idea too MH. Maybe I should get my paint box out and send them some colourful pictures.

 

[patrickq1]

s136 do you happen to have a copy of this section curly

also has anyone seen the transcripts yet from the inflation report that was shown on sky tv last night,it was a debate with the bank of england and about the third question from the end of the debate some interesting thing were said concerning the FSA ,but a superb debate,also the FSA are to be brought to the commitee for questions

[Curlyben]

Your wish.....

Legal assignments of things in action.- (1) Any absolute assignment by writing under the hand of the assignor (not purporting to be by way of charge only) of any debt or other legal thing in action, of which express notice in writing has been given to the debtor, trustee or other person from whom the assignor would have been entitled to claim such debt or thing in action, is effectual in law (subject to equities having priority over the right of the assignee) to pass and transfer from the date of such notice-

(a)

the legal right to such debt or thing in action;

(b)

all legal and other remedies for the same; and

©

the power to give a good discharge for the same without the concurrence of the assignor:

Provided that, if the debtor, trustee or other person liable in respect of such debt or thing in action has notice-

(a)

that the assignment is disputed by the assignor or any person claiming under him; or

(b)

of any other opposing or conflicting claims to such debt or thing in action;

 

It's all here: Law of Property Act 1925

[tifo]

excellent ...

 

i got the same letters from Cabot many months ago and now, after claiming my charges back, i am ready to take on the DCA's again.

 

for a start, since none of them have complied with s.78 requests, i need to get the defaults removed.

[Rhia]

You know we have to feel sorry for poor old Cabot (aaah!) these greedy directors decided to get rich quick on the backs of people in trouble and they borrowed huge amounts of cash, built their golden temple at kings Hill and stuffed it full of school leavers from My Space and then proceeded along a road whereby they assumed their "client" is a half wit and would just cough up.

They are now betweena rock and very hard place and lemming like are heading for the edge as they have to steamroller their way through their business model or bankruptcy beckons and so they press on hoping that where one gets away there are hundreds more who won't. Sadly this is probably true which is why we must press on pushing them back against the wall.

Go for it brothers and sisters.

[Seahorse]

Wait a mo, where's Fred go..

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ne. "SPLASH!!!!!"

[patrickq1]

Thanks Curly

[elizabeth1]

ICO wrote to me today - they'd like some further documents off me so they can forge ahead and make some decisions regarding my CAP1 agreement - court has already requested CAP1 show original documents and their reasoning to PROVE they are agreements etc..

 

My next hearing is dated for 23rd November 2007 - maybe this will help CAP1 decide "which" of their CCA's are enforceable agreements cause mine is totally different to this little gem - it's more of an application form that has been trimmed a little.

 

Sure looks like CAP1 and Cabots have their work cut out with this kind of stuff. Maybe they just need new crayons?