Intrum / Natwest CCA

[Curlyben]

Could you possibly make it bigger.

Post it from Photobucket or similar.

Also does it contain ALL the prescribed terms ?

 

 

S61(1)(a) CCA provides that, for a regulated agreement to be properly executed, it must contain all the prescribed terms of the agreement and conform to regulations under s60(1) – see Q1.14.

 

Reg 6(1) provides that the terms specified in Sch 6 to the Agreements Regulations are ‘prescribed terms’ for the purposes of s61(1)(a) and s127(3) – see Q8.2.

 

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

 

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

 

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.

 

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

 

* amount of credit – see Q8.

 

* credit limit – see Q8.5

* repayments – see Q8.9.

* rate of interest – see Q8.6

 

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.

 

 

Also check out Peter Bard's excellent thread on the subject: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/103383-agreement-enforceability.html

[jack508]

If you could give me your email address i will forward it to you.

 

Regards

Jack

[jack508]

Hi, hope this worked, used photobucket.

 

Regards

Jack

 

 

Page #1 http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee228/bedding4all/natwestcca-1.jpg

Page #2

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee228/bedding4all/natwestcca.jpg[url=http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee228/bedding4all/natwestcca.jpg][/url]

[jack508]

Hello Curlyben

 

Used photobucket, have a look at the links now.

[Curlyben]

Well the terms are present, but they aren't signed.

Is there any sign of a signature area at all ?

If not the they are UNexecuted and as such unenforceable.

[jack508]

Hello Curlyben

 

No signatures at all. Please read the attachment.

Its the letter they sent with so called CCA. It quotes section 77.

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee228/bedding4all/ntwestlet.jpg

[jack508]

Hello All

 

Can anybody tell me what i should do now. I have not received my CCA which i requested 75 days ago.

I was sent a loan application form with no signatures from myself or the bank after 74 days.

Is there a procedure i should now follow.

 

Regards

Jack

[Curlyben]

I love when they quote the 1983 amendments.

Look at it this way, if it doesn't have your signature HOW can you verify that it is indeed a true copy.

 

Send them this

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your letter of DATE, the contents of which have been noted.

With regards to your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies Terms and conditions and an unsigned agreement, I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify:

 

On the 29th of December 2006 in response query Ian McCartney MP replied to a letter in his then role as minister for the department of Trade and Industry he stated this, “Mr Bardsley describes a situation in which he was sent a copy of a company’s standard Terms and Conditions when requesting a copy of a signed agreement form. Just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement”

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.”

This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, what is being overlooked is the part highlighted, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

 

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I await your rapid response.

Yours Faithfully,

BLAH

Should shut them up.

[reduk054]

Hi Jack, Natwest would have to comply within 12 working days upon reciept of your CCA request.

Are you paying anything at the moment?

Do they still have the debt i,e, not a debt collection agency?

I would be inclined upon the info you have put, to not do anything...but if there is a little more history/info then that would be helpful!

Red

[jack508]

Hi Red

I have not paid while in dispute. Intrum were collecting the debt but passed it back to NatWest.

I have now received a letter from Natwest after 75 days. See attachments below.

 

Page #1

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee228/bedding4all/ntwestlet.jpg

 

Page #2

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee228/bedding4all/natwestcca-1.jpg

 

Page #3

 

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee228/bedding4all/natwestcca.jpg

[paulwlton]

This is a conjectered agreement they have lost the original or cannot locate it.

This response is intended to mislead you.

 

Paul

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi Jack

 

Yet again the Natwest keep going on and on and on about the signature been omitted.

 

Its about time they realised if it goes to court they have to produce the original agreement with the signature on!!!!!

 

HAK

[paulwlton]

Send the DCA this

Dear Sir/ Madame,

 

Please be advised that I am only prepared to communicate with you in writing. OFT rules and regulations clearly state that you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you. There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property and if you persist in sending “doorstep callers” to my home, you will be reported for harassment and be liable for damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be liable for conspiring in a tort of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless.

Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction.

As requested in my earlier correspondence could you please provide proof of your company’s registration and a certificated copy of its license to trade,

Yours sincerely,

 

[paulwlton]

Jack508 take a look

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/113941-creditor-recreating-cca.html

[phill123]

hi jack this is a really bad CCA no name no date no signature by you or the creditor no interest rate either ....

have you opted for a PPI too ? they are trying to fobb you off with big word in order for you to pay and make you believe that twhat they have in enforceable .... i have the same i reply by them juust keep going ... good luck

[paulwlton]

I suggest you send this. adapt to suite.

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/2007. I have noted your comments about re-creating a facsimile Agreement. I have also noted the Terms & Conditions that were supplied with this made-up Agreement. However, without sight of the original Agreement, I am unable to confirm the content of the true documentation that I allegedly signed.

 

Therefore, although you may have complied with the The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) Regulations 1983, the original signed Agreement would need to be produced as part of any court proceedings under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, section 127.

 

As you have already confirmed that no such Agreement exists, this means that a re-created made-up and unsigned Agreement would remain unenforceable by a court.