me -v- lloyds - £9000 claim

[rh999]

Hi All

 

Thought it about time I started my own thread on where I am with my claim with the lovely Lloyds TSB

 

First approached Lloyds in May stating I wanted refund totaling about £6000 or so.

 

Usual we are sorry your unhappy but p**s off.

 

Sent LBA in June, to be hit with news not long after of the OFT test case. Figuring I wanted to be first in queue I delivered claim form end of June.

 

In addition to the above I was with the collections dept (again) when I started to claim, so stopped all payments, as the O/D consisted of purely charges.

 

This had risen to £2k by end of June and they gave me the usual £750 "goodwill refund".

 

In my time in going through this, the collections dept have very aggressively pursued me for the "debt".

 

Status in court now is the claim was stayed last week at courts behest.

 

I have requested removal of stay for hardship, as I have a possession order on my house subject to me making extremely high payments on my mortgage to clear arrears (arrears because of Lloyds taking £500 per month in charges last year).

 

Just waiting on that, and fingers crossed

 

Because of the harassment from collections I sent them the template harassment letter.

 

I got this today in response, not from collections, but from recoveries team.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’m a little stumped and do not know how to respond to this?

Some of the comments are a little wide of the mark on here. I have not had my account managed by them since 2002. It has been managed on occasions by them since 2002.

 

Secondly I did not complain in my letter of 2nd slept. I warned them not to call me as they were harassing me. (Not mentioned at all in this letter)

 

Can anyone give me some pointers on how to respond on this?

 

With this account subject to court proceedings (stay or not) can they progress this with debt recovery?

 

Thanks in advance for help from anyone.

[rh999]

* bump *

 

anyone please?

[photoman]

RH99

 

I had a slightly similar situation (also with lloyds, and also the sums involved were similar);

 

I made a claim, and their "defence response" included a contention that there was still a sum outstanding upon a seperate loan account.

They tried to claim that they were entitled to "set-off" part of my claim against what they claimed was still outstanding.

 

What had actually happened was; they had earlier called in the full outstanding balance of loan as I had defaulted on repayments. After some negotiation, they had agreed to accept a lump sum amount as full and final payment some 6 months earlier. I had written evidence of this.

 

I started work on my full response to their defence, but also composed and actually filed a "response to counter-claim" with the court in the meantime (there is only a limited time to file such things).

In it I provided evidence of what had happened, and also contended that their attempts to set off were an overt retaliatory action in direct response to my claim, and an attempt at intimidation.

 

The courts look very dimly upon retaliatory actions.

The bank must have realised this, and how it could prejudice their case (especially as in my own case their counter claim had no foundation, and was either an error or an overt attempt to overlook the facts). I didn't even need to file the rest of my defence response, and got a full offer, and settlement a few days later.

 

This is not strictly speaking a direct comparison to your own circumstances, as it appears you do presently actually owe them the sums mentioned.

 

However, as your own actual claim is much larger, and also their continued and escalating actions are causing you hardship and stress, I still think it could still be considered as a retaliatory action.

In order to perhaps back up this contention, it would help if you could demonstrate that their current actions may not have been initiated had you not submitted a claim against them? eg; if you perhaps have an overdraft agreement, (even just a phone bill record that demonstrates when you had a conversation regards the overdraft) that states their agreement to £xxxx overdraft until/to be reviewed on xx date (sometimes this info is even placed on statements as a heading eg "overdraft limit of £xxx to be reviewed on xx).

 

My own suggestion is this:

 

Firstly, I would try the direct approach. Write to the Bank/ Solicitors and suggest that or the sake of expediency and to avoid the cost and efforts for all involved with further litigation, you are prepared to accept settlement for the balance of your claim less the current outstanding overdraft sums (perhaps even acounting for the £750 already paid "on account"). Keep the letter polite, so that it demonstrates your atempts at being reasonable, and send a copy of this to the court also (remember to put your claim ref number upon it).

 

If this doesn't work;

 

1/ If they have mentioned such sums in their formal defence filed with court, you may be able to file a formal "response to counterclaim". Have a read up on the HM courts website regards the CPR rules and procedures for doing this (especially as the time allowed to do this is limited). In it you should outline the facts, how the sums in question are in dispute, and how the banks current escalation in actions regards such should be considered as being in retaliation to the current case, and an attempt at intimidation.

 

You could probably do with some help on both of the above, and to be honest, although I have offered the advice above (without prejudice of course, so any actions you may take as a result of it are purely your own decision) I am no great expert, and my experiences limited. So I can't really help you much more after this.

 

So, I would suggest you send some PM's (personal messages) to a couple of Moderators or site helpers for advice also, and they could probably also help you with any letters. I would suggest someone like GaryH, who knows a lot about procedures, and is very experienced with Lloyds. Otherwise maybe someone like Zootscoot who is very knowledgable regards CPR and aspects of law.

Do give them a bit of time to respond, as they are very busy.

 

Good luck and best regards

 

PM

[photoman]

Rh99

Just re-read your first post.

 

Are you saying that the current overdraft consists wholly of charges applied to your account since your £6000 claim ?

...or are you saying that as you are claiming £6000 then this is a larger amount than the amount your overdrawn ?

 

If it is all fresh penalty charges since your £6k claim, then this changes things.

 

If this is the case, I would still try the direct approach first, but instead of offering to reduce your claim accordingly, then maintain that you still want the full £6k as per your initial claim.

Also state that you dispute the other £2k (less the £750 paid back already) as it consists wholly of charges (submit a spreadsheet to back this up), and would expect this to also be cleared as part of any out of court settlement. Inform them that if they do not agree to this, you will continue with your initial claim and you also then intend to initiate fresh proceedings for the remainder of this subsequent £2k, and that this is their last chance to avoid the extra time and expense of litigation.

 

Inform them also that you consider the fresh charges and their escalating actions as being a retaliatory act in response to your claim. Make the letter reasonable though, so that you can be seen by the courts to have made best efforts to avoid litigation. Also send a copy to the court.

 

Then, if this doesn't work, go through the normal procedures to recover the balance of the account. If the sum is in dispute, and at the stage of litigation I don't believe they can take any further direct actions of their own.

 

I would still send some PM's out for advice on this if I were you.

 

PM

[rh999]

Hi PM

 

thanks for the advice.

 

the £2k overdraft (including the £750) is not all new charges.

 

i would estimate about £1500 of this is part of the claim, and £500 are new.

 

i stopped using this account last November when i became self-employed, and opened a business acct with them, and i have a basic acct with nationwide which i use for personal stuff.

 

at this time the account was in credit. it seems a few cheques i issued were presented but returned unpaid which started this all again.

 

as i wasnt using the account i did not know about it. didnt receive any letters concerning it until the new year stating i was overdrawn.

 

problem is i stopped these cheques in february when i found about it, but they were presented again. usual stuff domino effect.

 

in march i made an agreement to make payments to them to reduce the o/d, until i found this site. i stopped all payments to the acct and told them i was stopping the payments.

 

this is when i started the process of reclaiming.

 

the business acct i had was also with lloyds. guess what i have started having problems with them. this acct has been run almost perfectly a few small issues, but only because of the fact their business acct is slow. payments not credited until next working day.

 

2 weeks ago, my "business manager" decided i was no longer a viable business cutomer, and has more or less forced me into closing the acct. cant prove it, but retaliation if i ever saw it.

[rh999]

hi all

 

i have now sent a response to the collections dept on their argument on this. just waiting on their response.

 

since then i have had date for a hearing on getting my stay lifted - 14th January.......

 

now the interesting bit...

 

i received today a letter from old SC&M containing their skeleton argument for the stay being left in place.

 

has anyone else received this at all???

 

it seems odd they send this out so early... (template argument, definate)

 

the skeleton contains the usual sh*t about how its in everyones interest to go with the OFT test case etc... but no mention of FSA waiver for hardship.

 

my request is based on hardship!! but they do not argue it?

[jansus]

If your hearing is not untill january and you are claiming hardship you can still go the FOS route and what have you to lose?

 

There are some interesting comments on criteria on here An idea - any comments from mods and others?

 

Also you should read the full alliance and leicester thread annoyed from Caerphilly

 

 

Also although it will not help you personally there is an announcement today about gathering info to send to the FSA

 

Jan

[rh999]

i think the reason for the delay is amount cases in the court. can i get it moved?

 

where can i get this announcement abut gathering info to FSA?

[jansus]

At the top of each forum there is an announcement section. It will not help you personally but they are looking for cases to pressurise FSA to lift waiver.

 

Jan

 

You will need someone to help you about the collections agency - I think you may be able to stall them as your case is only on hold - but not sure.

 

Jan

[rh999]

thanks Jan, i will look at the announcement.

 

concerning the agency thing. it's not a collections agency, its the collections dept of Lloyds, but i think i may have them now.

 

what should i do about the length of time to the hearing? could i contact the court and request they pull forward?

 

also has anyone else received a skeleton argument from [problem] on their stay cases?

 

thanks

[zootscoot]

Hi RH999

 

You can see the announcement here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=6&a=114

 

You may be better off going the FOS route rather than waiting for the courts who have proven reluctant to lift stays even in the most extreme cases of hardship.

 

The FOS,however, have stated they will continue to process complaints where there is hardship and have even processed such claims after court proceedings have been commenced.

 

All the best

 

Zoot

[jansus]

If you have decided to go FOS route - please let us know how you get on as there are plenty of "hardship" cases on here that could do with some help

 

 

Jan

[jubaxt]

subbing

[rh999]

Hi all

 

just a quick note to say i sent my FOS complaint in yesterday.

 

basically stating they are ignoring waiver, and also harrassing me.

 

also sent copies of all letters from collections depot, to back up my case.

 

will let you know what happens

[jansus]

Best of luck - hope you have a reply soon

 

Jan

[rh999]

hi all

 

had a response from FOS this week. just the usual we are in receipt of your compaint and will be in contact shortly.

 

have been given the direct number of the person dealing with it, so i will be making a call to them very soon.

 

nothing from Lloyds collections recently so expecting them to act up soon

[jansus]

Hope your saw simons thread in abbey - and quae in a&L

 

they both hve had success- so keep fighting

 

Jan

[rh999]

i spoke too soon about the fact i haeard nothing from Lloyds collections...

 

had a letter from Buchanan clark & wells today chasing the "debt" on their behalf, threatening court action if i dont pay...

 

called them tonight, reminding them of my previous letter to them (they contacted me in July) stating i would include them in my claim if they continued any action against me.

[rh999]

Hi All

 

i'm in court next week for a stay removal hearing and need some help;

 

previous complaint to FOS still not resolved. heard nothing from them so need to chase up

 

have constantly been a thorn in the side of recoveries and collections at Lloyds, but i cannot seem to get to the decision makers

it seems they have set up a "financial hardship team" who looks at cases on an "individual basis" they seem to have resolved that as my account is with collections then they cannot look at my case?!? derr the fact my acct is with collections may suggest i am suffering hardship?? please correct me if i am wrong

 

in addition to the above - my business account i have with Lloyds TSB was closed by them without giving me notice...

 

i need help please as i need to confirm what evidence i can bring to court

 

maybe info on cases where stays have been removed? where can i get this from?