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    • The Notice to Hirer does not comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule  4 . This is before I ask if Europarks have sent you a copy of the PCN they sent to Arval along with a copy of the hire agreement et. if they haven't done that either you are totally in the clear and have nothing to worry about and nothing to pay. The PCN they have sent you is supposed to be paid by you according to the Act within 21 days. The chucklebuts have stated 28 days which is the time that motorists have to pay. Such a basic and simple thing . The Act came out in 2012 and still they cannot get it right which is very good news for you. Sadly there is no point in telling them- they won't accept it because they lose their chance to make any money out of you. they are hoping that by writing to you demanding money plus sending in their  unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors that you might be so frightened as to pay them money so that you can sleep at night. Don't be surprised if some of their letters are done in coloured crayons-that's the sort of  level of people you will be dealing with. Makes great bedding for the rabbits though. Euro tend not to be that litigious but while you can safely ignore the debt collectors just keep an eye out for a possible Letter of Claim. They are pretty rare but musn't be ignored. Let us know so that you can send a suitably snotty letter to them showing that you are not afraid of them and are happy to go to Court as you like winning.  
    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • Here are 7 of our top tips to help you connect with young people who have left school or otherwise disengaged.View the full article
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
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CCA - I'm not sure!?!


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Cheers me up enormously to see these posts -thank you everyone!!

 

Having CCA'd our DCAs, we are slowly getting responses - one contained an alleged Credit Agreement, but having posted it here, it turned out to be 'rubbish' and completely unenforceable, as correctly anticipated by the helpful and very knowledgeable folks on the forum :-)

 

However, the really interesting response arrived just a couple of days ago, from a DCA (on behalf of EGG), which turned out to be 2 pages of payment statements to the Credit card account - or as I suspect they are known, a response to an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) - clever or what?

 

I intend to quietly ignore this one and IF we ever get to Court - hope they wil l look very silly indeed!!?? Sensible??

 

If anyone does want to offer some input here, I do get regular (as in almost daily) calls to my home phone from 1st Credit - nice people to do business with :-) - who keep leaving messages for me to call them.....some of these are automated and last night, just as the Rugby was starting, they rang 'live' at 8.00pm, asking to speak to me!!

 

My response was to say that I would prefer all contact to be in writing and was happy to hear anything he had to tell me in a letter - he seemed a bit deflated at that, but did go quietly and what a great match it was!! :-)

 

C'mon England - you can do it - but it won't be easy !!!!

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HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Cheers me up enormously to see these posts -thank you everyone!!

 

Having CCA'd our DCAs, we are slowly getting responses - one contained an alleged Credit Agreement, but having posted it here, it turned out to be 'rubbish' and completely unenforceable, as correctly anticipated by the helpful and very knowledgeable folks on the forum :-)

 

However, the really interesting response arrived just a couple of days ago, from a DCA (on behalf of EGG), which turned out to be 2 pages of payment statements to the Credit card account - or as I suspect they are known, a response to an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) - clever or what?

 

I intend to quietly ignore this one and IF we ever get to Court - hope they wil l look very silly indeed!!?? Sensible??

 

Hi MrSooty,

 

I have'nt received any credit agreements yet, but hopefully I'll get the 'usual rubbish' too..

 

What do you intend to do next about the first DCA response you mentioned i.e. unenforcable credit agreement. Will you leave it until they start harassing you more and then involve TS etc..?? :confused:

 

It's very interesting to hear other peoples situations is'nt it and the help and support you get here is great!! :cool:

 

regards,

 

iwcmd. :-)

 

P.S. Its a shame about the rugby..:rolleyes:

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Dear IWCMD - shame you had to mention the Rugby :-(

- however, they did their best and the better team won.......grrrrr

 

Based on the advice received from very worthy CAG members, my 'strategy' will be exactly as you suggest, which is to ignore the DCA who sent me what they believe to be an enforcable Credit Agreement!

 

There is plenty of very detailed material in the forum which suggests to me that these folk do know what they are talking about, so I'm prepared to put my faith in their advice and who knows, if it does go to court, so what, I have been paying for 4 years and more than most seem to do, so I might get a reduction on my monthly payments!!???

 

In the meantime, I have stopped paying and nothing awful has happened - plus, as you can read from the posts, others seem to have made this 'approach' work rather well - just wish I'd known about it all sooner, shows how little most of us ordinary folks know about our rights......and I'm even prepared to argue the morality of it these days, the Credit Card Companies have made thousands out me and no doubt you too - so if we get the tools to even the match up a bit, good on us :-)

 

Tomorrow is 'send a DCA a harassment letter day' - certain pleasure to be had from this stuff, don't you think????

 

Now don't go mentioning Mr Hamilton, will you!! :-)

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Fascinating stuff. I'm in the middle of a similar situation at the moment. I have had some correct agreements back and those I will continue to pay as mutually arranged before I found out about this site. One concern I have is that, knowing the devious nature of these people, it mightn't be beyond the realms of fantasy that they might, out of pure spite, deliberately pretend not to have the agreemnet, let it go to Court and then suddenly produce it on the day, even going so far as to claim I'd already been sent a copy and was lying when I said I hadn't. Any thoughts, anyone?

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Hi Bilgeman - based on the very helpful advice I have received here, my understanding is that Creditors/DCAs have the standard 2+12 days after you send the CCA request, then a further 30 days to come up with the Credit Agreement - after that, they are in default and cannot pursue you for the 'alleged debt' (always 'alleged' until proven!).

 

I would also like to believe (untested), that the Courts would take a VERY dim view of some smart arse DCA who did what you imagine might be possible - after all, these actions we are all taking are based upon existing Consumer Credit LAW and just as we have rights and obligations, so do they....

 

Finally, although I have not seen your posts before, when you say you have had 'correct agreements' returned to you, have these been verified by the forum?

 

I have little idea of what a 'correct agreement' would look like - although I read a very interesting and detailed post from someone who is clearly highly knowledgeable on this matter - and unless you have, I would not assume the agreement to be valid...???

 

My wife had one returned recently, with her signature on it and I thought, 'oh dear, we've fallen at the first hurdle...' - but having been asked to post it, I have been advised categorically, that 'it is rubbish', being a short application version and incomplete in several ways!!

 

As we say in Wales Nil Desperandum :-)

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Hi Bilgeman - based on the very helpful advice I have received here, my understanding is that Creditors/DCAs have the standard 2+12 days after you send the CCA request, then a further 30 days to come up with the Credit Agreement - after that, they are in default and cannot pursue you for the 'alleged debt' (always 'alleged' until proven!).

 

I've also read in advice here that you should keep all letters received from DCAs/creditors during the 2+12 days, the further 30 days and after that just in case they try and take you to court after sending you what they perceive to be a 'valid' credit agreement, so you have a 'strong' case against the claim they're trying to make against you.

One question I do have about what I've read and wrote above is that if the DCA/creditor does take you to court is it to try and apply a CCJ against you or is it to verify the debt is yours, so they can 'enforce' it?

 

I would also like to believe (untested), that the Courts would take a VERY dim view of some smart arse DCA who did what you imagine might be possible - after all, these actions we are all taking are based upon existing Consumer Credit LAW and just as we have rights and obligations, so do they....

 

I could not agree more..!

Finally, although I have not seen your posts before, when you say you have had 'correct agreements' returned to you, have these been verified by the forum?

 

Definately worth posting your 'alleged' agreement(s) on here!

 

I have little idea of what a 'correct agreement' would look like me too - although I read a very interesting and detailed post from someone who is clearly highly knowledgeable on this matter - and unless you have, I would not assume the agreement to be valid...??? Definately.

 

My wife had one returned recently, with her signature on it and I thought, 'oh dear, we've fallen at the first hurdle...' - but having been asked to post it, I have been advised categorically, that 'it is rubbish', being a short application version and incomplete in several ways!! Good to hear!

 

As we say in Wales Nil Desperandum :-)

 

 

Its great to hear from other CAGer's and I've got my fingers 'crossed' that I do hear back from the DCA's I'm dealing with either saying 'no agreement found' (I wish) or one of those 'application form' ones...:rolleyes:

 

Anyway, I'll keep you all updated as I hope you will me..;)

 

regards,

 

iwcmd. :)

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Thanks again for the info, Folks. I'll be in danger of a thread hijack here if I carry on so here's a link to my thread where all this is going on Rethink.... I've posted links to the relevant agreements that came through in postings nos 24 & 72 with comments from tomterm8 and rory32. Please feel free to have a browse and add your own comments anyone

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  • 2 weeks later...

There seem to be conflicting views flying about regarding the enforceability issue. What sticks out is the question of what happens to the creditor if it applies to the Court to have the agreement enforced after the deadline. We've been told that they've committed a criminal offence and are liable for a fine but also coming across is the feeling that the Courts aren't really interested and I wonder at what point the creditor thinks it worth taking the risk. How big does the debt have to be to justify going to Court and running the risk, however small, of a fine in order to get it enforced?

 

I don't think they could demand missed payments, certainly not before the date they supplied the copy agreement. Pehaps I'm wrong on this and I'm sure soemone better informed will put me right if I am.

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So am I !!!!

 

6 CCA requests sent at end of July, only ONE CCA has arrived!

and that one's not valid !!

 

My monthly bills have gone down quite a bit....;)

 

:D :D

 

 

Good for you oneofakind! :cool:

 

I want to be in the same 'boat' as you, but at present I'm abit 'scared' to stop paying the 'alleged' debts (although they have gone past the 12+2 days..!?!) in case they do prove them to be 'enforcable' and they ask for the 'missed' payments back..:eek:

 

regards,

 

iwcmd. :)

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I waited for 12+2+30 to elapse. Now even if they CAN produce a CCA, they can't enforce without going to court.

 

:D

 

Oh! :o I did not understand that fact before now..:cool:

 

So...If they elapse the 12+2+30 working days the only way to 'enforce' the 'alleged' debt is to take it to court?? :???:

 

:)

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That's my thinking exactly. Besides which, if they can't produce in six weeks, my guess is they don't have it at all !:D

 

Hi oneofakind/all,

 

Still no CCA replies..and I've still got my fingers crossed!?!

 

Its gone pass the 2+12 (working) days by far now and I think the +30 (working) days is up at the end of November.

 

I really want to stop my payments if this period expires.

 

To do this though I need to get a new issue debt card from my bank now(ish), so at the start of December the DCA's won't be able to automatically take their payments...

 

I've gotta try my luck to see if I can do this...

 

at least until it starts going further..i.e. court :(

 

how's your situation oneofakind?

 

regards,

 

iwcmd. :-?

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Oh! :o I did not understand that fact before now..:cool:

 

So...If they elapse the 12+2+30 working days the only way to 'enforce' the 'alleged' debt is to take it to court?? :???:

 

:)

 

Unfortunately not true. IF (and that is a BIG if!) they can produce a copy of the agreement containing the prescribed terms AND original T & Cs AND varied T & Cs AND statements of account, they can enforce straightaway. If they don't have these then they can try for a court order.

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Unfortunately not true. IF (and that is a BIG if!) they can produce a copy of the agreement containing the prescribed terms AND original T & Cs AND varied T & Cs AND statements of account, they can enforce straightaway. If they don't have these then they can try for a court order.

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

So to recieve all the above information I presume the CCA covers the copy of agreement, prescribed terms, original T&C's and varied T&C's.

 

But, to get the statements of account would be the S.A.R (subject access request) would'nt it? :???:

 

So, just to understand this correctly to 'enforce' the debt at any time they would need to supply all the above information, but this would only be given once requested by the debtor i.e. CCA request and S.A.R am I correct?? :???:

 

regards,

 

iwcmd. :)

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