CCA - I'm not sure!?!

[iwannaclearmydebts]

You will find that the days just fly by

 

looking forward to it...:grin:

[MrSooty]

Cheers me up enormously to see these posts -thank you everyone!!

 

Having CCA'd our DCAs, we are slowly getting responses - one contained an alleged Credit Agreement, but having posted it here, it turned out to be 'rubbish' and completely unenforceable, as correctly anticipated by the helpful and very knowledgeable folks on the forum

 

However, the really interesting response arrived just a couple of days ago, from a DCA (on behalf of EGG), which turned out to be 2 pages of payment statements to the Credit card account - or as I suspect they are known, a response to an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) - clever or what?

 

I intend to quietly ignore this one and IF we ever get to Court - hope they wil l look very silly indeed!!?? Sensible??

 

If anyone does want to offer some input here, I do get regular (as in almost daily) calls to my home phone from 1st Credit - nice people to do business with - who keep leaving messages for me to call them.....some of these are automated and last night, just as the Rugby was starting, they rang 'live' at 8.00pm, asking to speak to me!!

 

My response was to say that I would prefer all contact to be in writing and was happy to hear anything he had to tell me in a letter - he seemed a bit deflated at that, but did go quietly and what a great match it was!!

 

C'mon England - you can do it - but it won't be easy !!!!

[rory32]

Have you sent them the harassment by telephone letter here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html

[MrSooty]

Thanks 'Rory32' - seems like there's letter for every situation !!

 

The answer is, I haven't yet, but will be doing so on Monday!!

 

If we can win the game tonight, it will have been a really great weekend!!

[iwannaclearmydebts]

Cheers me up enormously to see these posts -thank you everyone!!

 

Having CCA'd our DCAs, we are slowly getting responses - one contained an alleged Credit Agreement, but having posted it here, it turned out to be 'rubbish' and completely unenforceable, as correctly anticipated by the helpful and very knowledgeable folks on the forum

 

However, the really interesting response arrived just a couple of days ago, from a DCA (on behalf of EGG), which turned out to be 2 pages of payment statements to the Credit card account - or as I suspect they are known, a response to an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) - clever or what?

 

I intend to quietly ignore this one and IF we ever get to Court - hope they wil l look very silly indeed!!?? Sensible??

 

Hi MrSooty,

 

I have'nt received any credit agreements yet, but hopefully I'll get the 'usual rubbish' too..

 

What do you intend to do next about the first DCA response you mentioned i.e. unenforcable credit agreement. Will you leave it until they start harassing you more and then involve TS etc..??

 

It's very interesting to hear other peoples situations is'nt it and the help and support you get here is great!!

 

regards,

 

iwcmd.

 

P.S. Its a shame about the rugby..

[MrSooty]

Dear IWCMD - shame you had to mention the Rugby

- however, they did their best and the better team won.......grrrrr

 

Based on the advice received from very worthy CAG members, my 'strategy' will be exactly as you suggest, which is to ignore the DCA who sent me what they believe to be an enforcable Credit Agreement!

 

There is plenty of very detailed material in the forum which suggests to me that these folk do know what they are talking about, so I'm prepared to put my faith in their advice and who knows, if it does go to court, so what, I have been paying for 4 years and more than most seem to do, so I might get a reduction on my monthly payments!!???

 

In the meantime, I have stopped paying and nothing awful has happened - plus, as you can read from the posts, others seem to have made this 'approach' work rather well - just wish I'd known about it all sooner, shows how little most of us ordinary folks know about our rights......and I'm even prepared to argue the morality of it these days, the Credit Card Companies have made thousands out me and no doubt you too - so if we get the tools to even the match up a bit, good on us

 

Tomorrow is 'send a DCA a harassment letter day' - certain pleasure to be had from this stuff, don't you think????

 

Now don't go mentioning Mr Hamilton, will you!!

[Bilgeman]

Fascinating stuff. I'm in the middle of a similar situation at the moment. I have had some correct agreements back and those I will continue to pay as mutually arranged before I found out about this site. One concern I have is that, knowing the devious nature of these people, it mightn't be beyond the realms of fantasy that they might, out of pure spite, deliberately pretend not to have the agreemnet, let it go to Court and then suddenly produce it on the day, even going so far as to claim I'd already been sent a copy and was lying when I said I hadn't. Any thoughts, anyone?

[MrSooty]

Hi Bilgeman - based on the very helpful advice I have received here, my understanding is that Creditors/DCAs have the standard 2+12 days after you send the CCA request, then a further 30 days to come up with the Credit Agreement - after that, they are in default and cannot pursue you for the 'alleged debt' (always 'alleged' until proven!).

 

I would also like to believe (untested), that the Courts would take a VERY dim view of some smart arse DCA who did what you imagine might be possible - after all, these actions we are all taking are based upon existing Consumer Credit LAW and just as we have rights and obligations, so do they....

 

Finally, although I have not seen your posts before, when you say you have had 'correct agreements' returned to you, have these been verified by the forum?

 

I have little idea of what a 'correct agreement' would look like - although I read a very interesting and detailed post from someone who is clearly highly knowledgeable on this matter - and unless you have, I would not assume the agreement to be valid...???

 

My wife had one returned recently, with her signature on it and I thought, 'oh dear, we've fallen at the first hurdle...' - but having been asked to post it, I have been advised categorically, that 'it is rubbish', being a short application version and incomplete in several ways!!

 

As we say in Wales Nil Desperandum

[iwannaclearmydebts]

Hi Bilgeman - based on the very helpful advice I have received here, my understanding is that Creditors/DCAs have the standard 2+12 days after you send the CCA request, then a further 30 days to come up with the Credit Agreement - after that, they are in default and cannot pursue you for the 'alleged debt' (always 'alleged' until proven!).

 

I've also read in advice here that you should keep all letters received from DCAs/creditors during the 2+12 days, the further 30 days and after that just in case they try and take you to court after sending you what they perceive to be a 'valid' credit agreement, so you have a 'strong' case against the claim they're trying to make against you.

One question I do have about what I've read and wrote above is that if the DCA/creditor does take you to court is it to try and apply a CCJ against you or is it to verify the debt is yours, so they can 'enforce' it?

 

I would also like to believe (untested), that the Courts would take a VERY dim view of some smart arse DCA who did what you imagine might be possible - after all, these actions we are all taking are based upon existing Consumer Credit LAW and just as we have rights and obligations, so do they....

 

I could not agree more..!

Finally, although I have not seen your posts before, when you say you have had 'correct agreements' returned to you, have these been verified by the forum?

 

Definately worth posting your 'alleged' agreement(s) on here!

 

I have little idea of what a 'correct agreement' would look like me too - although I read a very interesting and detailed post from someone who is clearly highly knowledgeable on this matter - and unless you have, I would not assume the agreement to be valid...??? Definately.

 

My wife had one returned recently, with her signature on it and I thought, 'oh dear, we've fallen at the first hurdle...' - but having been asked to post it, I have been advised categorically, that 'it is rubbish', being a short application version and incomplete in several ways!! Good to hear!

 

As we say in Wales Nil Desperandum

 

 

Its great to hear from other CAGer's and I've got my fingers 'crossed' that I do hear back from the DCA's I'm dealing with either saying 'no agreement found' (I wish) or one of those 'application form' ones...

 

Anyway, I'll keep you all updated as I hope you will me..

 

regards,

 

iwcmd.

[Bilgeman]

Thanks again for the info, Folks. I'll be in danger of a thread hijack here if I carry on so here's a link to my thread where all this is going on Rethink.... I've posted links to the relevant agreements that came through in postings nos 24 & 72 with comments from tomterm8 and rory32. Please feel free to have a browse and add your own comments anyone

[iwannaclearmydebts]

Thanks Bilgeman

 

I'll be checking your thread out tonight..

 

regards,

 

iwcmd.

[iwannaclearmydebts]

Hi all,

 

Just an update to say......

 

I'm still waiting for my credit agreements!

 

regards,

 

iwcmd.

[Bilgeman]

There seem to be conflicting views flying about regarding the enforceability issue. What sticks out is the question of what happens to the creditor if it applies to the Court to have the agreement enforced after the deadline. We've been told that they've committed a criminal offence and are liable for a fine but also coming across is the feeling that the Courts aren't really interested and I wonder at what point the creditor thinks it worth taking the risk. How big does the debt have to be to justify going to Court and running the risk, however small, of a fine in order to get it enforced?

 

I don't think they could demand missed payments, certainly not before the date they supplied the copy agreement. Pehaps I'm wrong on this and I'm sure soemone better informed will put me right if I am.

[Bilgeman]

....

[oneofakind]

So am I !!!!

 

6 CCA requests sent at end of July, only ONE CCA has arrived!

and that one's not valid !!

 

My monthly bills have gone down quite a bit....

 

:D

[iwannaclearmydebts]

So am I !!!!

 

6 CCA requests sent at end of July, only ONE CCA has arrived!

and that one's not valid !!

 

My monthly bills have gone down quite a bit....

 

:D

 

 

Good for you oneofakind!

 

I want to be in the same 'boat' as you, but at present I'm abit 'scared' to stop paying the 'alleged' debts (although they have gone past the 12+2 days..!?!) in case they do prove them to be 'enforcable' and they ask for the 'missed' payments back..

 

regards,

 

iwcmd.

[oneofakind]

I waited for 12+2+30 to elapse. Now even if they CAN produce a CCA, they can't enforce without going to court.

 

[iwannaclearmydebts]

I waited for 12+2+30 to elapse. Now even if they CAN produce a CCA, they can't enforce without going to court.

 

 

Oh! :o I did not understand that fact before now..

 

So...If they elapse the 12+2+30 working days the only way to 'enforce' the 'alleged' debt is to take it to court??

 

[oneofakind]

That's my thinking exactly. Besides which, if they can't produce in six weeks, my guess is they don't have it at all !

[iwannaclearmydebts]

That's my thinking exactly. Besides which, if they can't produce in six weeks, my guess is they don't have it at all !

 

Hi oneofakind/all,

 

Still no CCA replies..and I've still got my fingers crossed!?!

 

Its gone pass the 2+12 (working) days by far now and I think the +30 (working) days is up at the end of November.

 

I really want to stop my payments if this period expires.

 

To do this though I need to get a new issue debt card from my bank now(ish), so at the start of December the DCA's won't be able to automatically take their payments...

 

I've gotta try my luck to see if I can do this...

 

at least until it starts going further..i.e. court

 

how's your situation oneofakind?

 

regards,

 

iwcmd. :-?

[SteveH2508]

Oh! :o I did not understand that fact before now..

 

So...If they elapse the 12+2+30 working days the only way to 'enforce' the 'alleged' debt is to take it to court??

 

 

Unfortunately not true. IF (and that is a BIG if!) they can produce a copy of the agreement containing the prescribed terms AND original T & Cs AND varied T & Cs AND statements of account, they can enforce straightaway. If they don't have these then they can try for a court order.

[iwannaclearmydebts]

Unfortunately not true. IF (and that is a BIG if!) they can produce a copy of the agreement containing the prescribed terms AND original T & Cs AND varied T & Cs AND statements of account, they can enforce straightaway. If they don't have these then they can try for a court order.

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

So to recieve all the above information I presume the CCA covers the copy of agreement, prescribed terms, original T&C's and varied T&C's.

 

But, to get the statements of account would be the S.A.R (subject access request) would'nt it?

 

So, just to understand this correctly to 'enforce' the debt at any time they would need to supply all the above information, but this would only be given once requested by the debtor i.e. CCA request and S.A.R am I correct??

 

regards,

 

iwcmd.

[Curlyben]

A statement of account should be included with the CCA request.

 

To be able to enforce the agreement in court all they would need is the fully compliant agreement.

[iwannaclearmydebts]

Hi all,

 

 

Just another update.

 

No CCA's recieved yet...

 

and

 

no payments taken from my debt card either...

 

Still got my fingers crossed on this..

 

regards,

 

iwcmd.

[iwannaclearmydebts]

A statement of account should be included with the CCA request.

 

To be able to enforce the agreement in court all they would need is the fully compliant agreement.

 

P.S. Thanks CB.