Caught by a speed camera - mitigating circumstances????

[hedgey06]

Not sure if I can anything about this, but hopefully somebody may know if I can!

 

I rushed my son to hospital on Sunday morning with his right arm bleeding, a bone sticking out and the whole arm at a funny angle.

 

He was discharged from hospital this afternoon and we got home to a notice informing me I'd been caught doing 40mph on the short journey to hospital on Sunday. I don't dispute that - they've got me fair and square! But can I plead mitigating circumstances? I didn't think about my speed at the time - my son was in agony and, to be honest, I was petrified so I put my foot down and just concentrated on getting him to hospital.

 

Or do I just have to swallow it and accept the fine/points without an argument?

 

Hope somebody knows a bit more about this than I do!

Thanks x

[patdavies]

You can't do much by way of mitigation at this stage.

 

At the moment you just need to complete the S.172 request to name the driver. There is no harm in adding a letter to explain, but the process is fairly automatic.

 

Once you get to Court, I suggest that you biggest hurdle may be why you didn't call an ambulance.

 

But if you are contrite and honest with the Magistrates and have no 'previous', they may be lenient.

 

At the back of my mind, I think there is a common law defence of necessity - but I'll have to do some digging on that.

[danny_kiernan]

Hi Hedgey,

 

Firstly I hope your son is ok, I know it can be traumatic when one of your kids has an injury, I am a father of 3 myself.

 

Theres a couple of issues to deal with, in circumstances such as yours.

 

Firstly Pat is right, it is a defence when speeding, if it is for a medical emergency (as it clearly was), what you require for your defence is evidence of the hospita visit.

 

Secondly:

 

Speeding fines/points from a camera are against the law as stated in the bill of rights 'That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void' , just as it is with bank charges.

 

The Law requires that you be taken to court before a fine or forfeiture is imposed, The DVLA and the local council are not courts of law - so therefore they cannot issue the penalty points and fine. As in my previous threads they are acting 'ultra vires' - which means in english - outside of their authority.

 

There is another issue of invasion of privacy (via human rights act), but I wouldn't recommend using it as you really need to be clued up on it and/or have a solicitor who is a specialist in human rights cases.

 

Have you received a notification of fine/penalty points through the post or a court summons?

 

Kind Regards

 

Dani

[patdavies]

Speeding fines/points from a camera are against the law as stated in the bill of rights 'That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void' , just as it is with bank charges.

 

The Law requires that you be taken to court before a fine or forfeiture is imposed, The DVLA and the local council are not courts of law - so therefore they cannot issue the penalty points and fine. As in my previous threads they are acting 'ultra vires' - which means in english - outside of their authority.

 

 

No they are not.

 

What is sent out once the identity of the driver is confirmed is a conditional offer of fixed penalty. It is conditional because it cannot apply to someone with 9 or more points on his/her licence.

 

The reason that the CoFP does not convene the Bill of Rights, like any fixed penalty notice is that it is merely an invitation to pay a fixed sum (and get the points) to avoid court proceedings. At no time is the right to have the matter heard in a court of law either removed or refused. You are confusing FPNs, which are criminal matters with PCNs. Councils/DVLA do not issue FPNs for speeding - it is a Police matter.

 

IOW, it is an opportunity, if you accept that you are guilty, to avoid time off work, etc, to answer a Magistrates' Court summons to answer to the offence.

[hedgey06]

Thanks for replying Pat and Dani, I really appreciate your help on this. I've been driving for nearly 20 years with a clean licence and I'd love to keep the slate clean if I can at all. In response to a couple of the points made above:

 

Once you get to Court, I suggest that you biggest hurdle may be why you didn't call an ambulance.

 

TBH, as soon as I saw him walking up the drive I freaked out, jumped in the car and put my foot on the pedal! We live close to a major hospital with a large A&E department so I didn't bother waiting for the ambulance. Would that be acceptable in Court though?

 

Firstly I hope your son is ok, I know it can be traumatic when one of your kids has an injury, I am a father of 3 myself.

 

Have you received a notification of fine/penalty points through the post or a court summons?

 

He's on the mend now thanks Dani

 

The notification came through the post - but it didn't say anything about a fine or penalty points. It says 'Notice of Intended Prosecution' and asks me to confirm my driver licence number.

 

I know I shouldn't have been speeding and I normally wouldn't, especially along the stretch of road I was caught on as there are two high schools on it. But as it was a Sunday morning and I needed to get my son to hospital I just panicked and, because the road was quiet and clear, I've just put my foot down and got him there as quick as poss. I feel a bit of a muppet now though!

[Bookworm]

Hedgey, did you get my PM?

[hedgey06]

Got it Bookie! x

[ukaviator]

If it is your first offence, you should get the offer of paying the £60 fine and get 3 points on your licence, or a 3 hour driving refresher in a class room with an instructor. You will have to pay a small amount to the course instructor, but at least it saves your licence from 3 points, and higher insurance. Did you get that offer in the letter?

[rory32]

3 points don't normally seem to make any difference to your insurance premium. Never have to me anyway.

[patdavies]

If it is your first offence, you should get the offer of paying the £60 fine and get 3 points on your licence, or a 3 hour driving refresher in a class room with an instructor. You will have to pay a small amount to the course instructor, but at least it saves your licence from 3 points, and higher insurance. Did you get that offer in the letter?

 

 

At the moment, this is at the NIP/A.172 stage; it hasn't yet got to CoPF or Speed Awareness course.

 

Not all Constabularies offer SSC and 40 mph in a 30 mph restriction is probably too high a speed to qualify anyway.

 

The course usually costs £70

[hedgey06]

If it is your first offence, you should get the offer of paying the £60 fine and get 3 points on your licence, or a 3 hour driving refresher in a class room with an instructor. You will have to pay a small amount to the course instructor, but at least it saves your licence from 3 points, and higher insurance. Did you get that offer in the letter?

 

No, I didn't get anything UK - just the Notice that they intend to prosecute. I have to 'fill in the back' and send it off to them. Muppets. I'd love to see their reaction if it had been their son in a mess. I'm sure the little treasures would have obeyed the speed limit to the letter!

 

If I get the option........... I'll opt for the driving refresher though

 

3 points don't normally seem to make any difference to your insurance premium. Never have to me anyway.

 

Crikey............ I never even thought about that. I pay a bomb as it is............ it'll be shank's pony if they put it up any more!

[Bookworm]

Well, make sure you let us know what happens. ;-)

[rory32]

As I previously stated 3 points have never made a difference to my insurance premium or come to that anyone else I know, so you should be fine (although 6 and 9 points do).

[ukaviator]

At the moment, this is at the NIP/A.172 stage; it hasn't yet got to CoPF or Speed Awareness course.

 

Not all Constabularies offer SSC and 40 mph in a 30 mph restriction is probably too high a speed to qualify anyway.

 

The course usually costs £70

 

Just for info, Partners son was caught doing 37 in a 30 mph limit. Has been offered the course, which is 3 hours long. No points provided he goes on the day they give him. This is with Leicestershire Police.

[NitrousOxide]

Hi,

My dad got his points dropped due to mitigating circumstances. He went to court told his side and only got fined half.

Filling in the back of a speeding ticket is admission of guilt by the way. I'm pretty sure you don't have to do it. Pepipoo is quite a good site to have a read on.

[Bookworm]

Sadly, you do now.

 

The European court of Appeals had deemed that the right to not incriminate oneself without first being cautioned does not apply to motorists.

[hedgey06]

I think - particularly given today's news (bummer ) - that if I get the opportunity to go into the courtroom and explain myself I'm definitely going to give it a go. The more I think about it, the more I want to be given the opportunity to explain the circumstances.

 

I know there isn't any justification for breaking the law and I'm generally a law abiding lady. However, when your child is in agony with a bone sticking out of his arm and blood all over him you panic and put your foot down and get him to hospital PDQ.

 

I may get 3 points on my licence and a fine, but I at least want them to listen to what actually happened so that they realise I'm not a speed demon who doesn't give a monkey's peanuts. And let's face it, an ambulance would have gone way faster than I did as well!

 

Bring it on GMP!

[patdavies]

And let's face it, an ambulance would have gone way faster than I did as well!

 

 

Don't say this is Court,

 

The argument against you is that an ambulance is an obviously marked vehicle with lights and siren, driven by a trained driver, that motorists expect to see travelling at speed and can make allowances for.

 

Simply be respectful and tell your story simply. Stick with your defence of necessity. If queried about why you didn't call an ambulance, etc. simply state that in the heat of the moment your priority was to get your son to hospital. Emphasise that although you exceeded the posted limit, your driving was not unsafe. You will need some evidence of your son's condition and the necessity of urgent hospital treatment

 

At the start of proceedings, you will be asked how you plead, guilty or not guilty. Your plea is not guilty, because of your defence. if you plead guilty but with mitigation, you deprive the magistrates of an an aquittal, they can only sentence according to the weight they give your mitigation.

[Steve__M]

As I previously stated 3 points have never made a difference to my insurance premium or come to that anyone else I know, so you should be fine (although 6 and 9 points do).

 

You could try phoning your insurance company to find out.

 

For info, I got a ticket (and my first 3 points in 10 years of owning a car) from a traffic light camera (not in a dangerous way). It upped my insurance about 30 quid. It would have been less if it had been a speeding fine. Having said that, my fully comp insurance is still only 220 quid so I'm not complaining too much.

[hedgey06]

Simply be respectful and tell your story simply. Stick with your defence of necessity. If queried about why you didn't call an ambulance, etc. simply state that in the heat of the moment your priority was to get your son to hospital. Emphasise that although you exceeded the posted limit, your driving was not unsafe. You will need some evidence of your son's condition and the necessity of urgent hospital treatment

 

At the start of proceedings, you will be asked how you plead, guilty or not guilty. Your plea is not guilty, because of your defence. if you plead guilty but with mitigation, you deprive the magistrates of an an aquittal, they can only sentence according to the weight they give your mitigation.

 

Thanks pat. My son was treated immediately in A&E and then transferred by ambulance to a children's hospital (only because they'd given him morphine so he had to be monitored). Hopefully, I'll be able to show the urgency of the situation to the magistrate. I just hope they're understanding about me not getting an ambulance though But given how close we live to the hospital, driving him there myself seemed the quickest option.

 

Fingers crossed that they're understanding with me. Guilty plea on it's way! Thanks again for being so helpful, I really appreciate it. x

[patdavies]

T Guilty plea on it's way!

 

No.

 

Not guilty. Defence of necessity.

 

What you are presenting to the Magistrtaes is a defence, not a mitigation (which only applies to sentence)

[hedgey06]

Sorry! Mis-typed earlier.

 

Therefore, it's 'not guilty' and I need to collate informtion pertaining to what happened that day (information from hospital including the injuries sustained, treated as a priority emergency, hospitalisation, operations, etc).

 

How about information such as weather conditions on the day (e.g., it was fine and clear - no rain, etc). Or is it not necessary to go this far?

[patdavies]

 

How about information such as weather conditions on the day (e.g., it was fine and clear - no rain, etc). Or is it not necessary to go this far?

 

I wouldn't bother to gather evidence as regards the weather - it will be enough to state that it was clear and dry.

 

Be sure to make the point that this is a technical offence and that at no time was your driving dangerous or inconsiderate of others on the road. That you did not pose a danger to other road users.

 

Emphasise your otherwise unblemished driving record.

 

Read through this

[hedgey06]

Thanks for the link pat, I've printed it off and started to research it. Hopefully in my favour will be the fact that it was Sunday morning and the roads were clear - but I'll make sure that I do the background reading from the link you've provided me with to make sure I stick to the facts on this.

 

Keep your fingers crossed for me! x

[danny_kiernan]

Keeping my fingers crossed Hedgey,

 

Whens your court date?

 

Dani