Cctv

[rocky2005]

Hi All

 

I was caught parked on double yellow lines by cctv where unloading was not permitted at anytime at 2 in the morning when i stopped to get a drink from a Dixy chicken takeaway.

 

never recieved a first notice asking for £40 just recieved the second notice with £80 charge.

 

Spent 3 weeks trying to get the still images sent to me and finally recieved them yesterday.

 

Is there anyway iI can appeal because I have 2 weeks left now to appeal and the charge goes up to £120.

 

Thanks

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Who issued this ticket?

I don't see how a local authority can issue a penalty that goes from £40 to £80 and to £120 prior to a charge certificate?

I may be missing something.

[rocky2005]

London Borough of Newham issued the fine.

[green_and_mean]

What grounds are you appealing on?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

London Borough of Newham issued the fine.

 

Which doesn't make sense when you look at this (Newham's web page on penalties).

 

I know it's boring but can you post the full text of the notice that you have received. The whole thing. Scan it if you can.

[green_and_mean]

Sounds like a pre differential penalty ticket which was 80 reduced to 40 if paid in 14 days not sure where the 120 comes from though.

[patdavies]

Sounds like a pre differential penalty ticket which was 80 reduced to 40 if paid in 14 days not sure where the 120 comes from though.

 

The £120 will come from the 50% increase at the point of going to Charge Certificate.

 

CCTV parking enforcement effectively jumps the PCN stage and the issued PCN is effectively also the NtO. There is no informal appeal stage.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

The £120 will come from the 50% increase at the point of going to Charge Certificate.

 

CCTV parking enforcement effectively jumps the PCN stage and the issued PCN is effectively also the NtO. There is no informal appeal stage.

 

This was the conclusion I was coming to last night when I was doing some research.

 

What I wasn't getting was the £40 and was trying to find out from the London Councils website the rate for the DYL contravention.

 

I have no experience of CCTV tickets, are you saying that there is never an opportunity to pay at a 50% discount? Can you give me a link to the regs on this 'cos I haven't seen them or found them.

 

From what we know here I reckon the only chance of success is the possibility of a defectively drafted NTO giving a Barnet type case but on the NTO rather than the PCN.

[green_and_mean]

http://www.westminster.gov.uk/transportandstreets/parking/parkingtickets/cctv/upload/CCTV%20Parking%20Contraventions%20flowchart.pdf

[patdavies]

What I wasn't getting was the £40 and was trying to find out from the London Councils website the rate for the DYL contravention.

 

 

The £40 is the discounted rate

[patdavies]

http://www.westminster.gov.uk/transportandstreets/parking/parkingtickets/cctv/upload/CCTV%20Parking%20Contraventions%20flowchart.pdf

Interesting, but that applies to RTA1991 PCNs.

 

PCNs issued via CCTV are not the same Act or flowchart

[green_and_mean]

Interesting, but that applies to RTA1991 PCNs.

 

PCNs issued via CCTV are not the same Act or flowchart

 

You sure you are not confusing bus lanes or moving traffic offences? Which use the relevant Local London Authorities acts?

[green_and_mean]

London Local Authorities Act 2000

 

Service of penalty charge notice on the basis of information provided by camera, etc

(1) This section does not apply to the council of the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea.

(2) Where a participating council, on the basis of information provided by the use of a camera or any other device, has reason to believe that a penalty charge relating to a stationary vehicle in a designated parking place or a special parking area in the area of the council is payable under Part II of the Act of 1991 with respect to the vehicle, they may serve a penalty charge notice on the person appearing to them to be the owner of the vehicle.

(3) A participating council may not serve a penalty charge notice under this section after the expiry of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the penalty charge allegedly became payable.

(4) Subject to subsection (5) below, the Act of 1991 shall apply to a penalty charge notice served under this section as though it were a penalty charge notice issued under section 66(1) of that Act.

(5) In the application of the Act of 1991 to a penalty charge notice served under this section—

(a) for the reference to the parking attendant in section 66(3)(a) there shall be substituted a reference to the council;

(b) for the reference in paragraph 1(2)(b) of Schedule 6 to the parking attendant who issued the penalty charge notice there shall be substituted a reference to the council who served the penalty charge notice; and

© for the purpose of section 66(3)(d), the date of the notice shall be the date on which the penalty charge notice was served.

(6) A notice served under this section may be served in the same manner as a notice to owner under paragraph 10 of Schedule 6 to the Act of 1991.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

The £40 is the discounted rate

 

I figured that. Slightly different agenda but I'm fighting a London Authority PCN for a pre 1 July 07 contravention and the penalty is £100 reduced to £50 etc. So I don't get the £80/£40 for OP. That's what I'm hoping to get to the bottom of.

 

But for me the OP doesn't seem to have had the opportunity to pay at £40. So what I don't know is how not receiving the PCN by post in CCTV cases affects the appeal process.

[green_and_mean]

I figured that. Slightly different agenda but I'm fighting a London Authority PCN for a pre 1 July 07 contravention and the penalty is £100 reduced to £50 etc. So I don't get the £80/£40 for OP. That's what I'm hoping to get to the bottom of.

 

But for me the OP doesn't seem to have had the opportunity to pay at £40. So what I don't know is how not receiving the PCN by post in CCTV cases affects the appeal process.

 

The Councils have the choice of which price band they charge at generally the inner boroughs are at higher rate outer at the lower rate.

[green_and_mean]

I think the OP is saying he didn't receive the initial PCN through the post for whatever reason and it has now escalated to be two weeks from charge certificate stage.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I think the OP is saying he didn't receive the initial PCN through the post for whatever reason and it has now escalated to be two weeks from charge certificate stage.

 

So if no PCN served, NTO fails. OK its a question of proof but it should be put forward as part of the appeal. The ground is that the penalty charge exceeds the relevant amount.

[green_and_mean]

So if no PCN served, NTO fails. OK its a question of proof but it should be put forward as part of the appeal. The ground is that the penalty charge exceeds the relevant amount.

 

Why does it exceed relevant amount?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Why does it exceed relevant amount?

 

Because the penalty of the relevant amount can only be levied if a lawful PCN and Lawful NTO have been lawfully served. If not and the authority are trying to levy a penalty of any amount above £0 then it exceeds the relevant amount. The relevant amount for an unlawful PCN or unlawful NTO or if either of them is unlawfully served is £0.

 

The PTAS website has this key case where they describe exactly this.

 

As to the argument that the circumstances do not fall within one of the statutory grounds for contesting liability in paragraph 2(4) of Schedule 6 to the 1991 Act, they seem to me to fall within ground (f): that the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case. If the PCN was not valid, the penalty payable would be nil and therefore would exceed the penalty claimed by the local authority.

 

The case was lost by the owner but for different reasons.

[rocky2005]

I arranged for them to accept £40 has payment, called to pay them and they decided to take £120 instead so now i got to fight to get the £80 back from them.

 

I hate this country everything about money.

 

and yet they wonder why theres people out there sending letter bombs to the parking enforcment and DVLA.

[green_and_mean]

I hate this country everything about money.

 

and yet they wonder why theres people out there sending letter bombs to the parking enforcment and DVLA.

 

I'm still trying to get my Bank charges back from the Abbey maybe you would suggest I pop down my local branch and maim and cripple a few cashiers?

[rocky2005]

You deleted my post how rude of you.......MEH

[livelylad]

You deleted my post how rude of you.......MEH

 

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