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Ticket Before Id arrived ?


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Hello All,

 

My mom recently recieved a PCN stating "no permit". At first i thought she may have been parked in an restricted space, but eventually figured out that it was for 'no parking ticket'. The problem is that the ticket was issued at 15.41 and she didnt arrive at the car park till aprox 16.15 and immediatly purchased a parking ticket (its not a free car park).

 

She had a dentist appointment at 15.30 the same day and was parked in a different car park opposite till her appointment finished at around 16.00 - she then drove to the car park where she recieved the ticket.....

 

The ticket was issued by Parkforce and although she has paid the £60 fee and ask for it to be refunded, I doubt this will happen.

 

I was just wondering what the route would be to reclaim the £60. I do not expect to get any reply to the letters I will send outlining the situation, but am fully prepared to go via the small claims court.

 

Can anyone offer any advice ? or has anyone successfully got there money back from these parasites ?

 

Id be very grateful for anyhelp....

 

Thanks

Haliax

5th December - Sent S.A.R

5th January - Received Statements

6th January - Sent Prelim Letter for £1181.50

16th January - Reply recieved - we'll look into it

22nd January - Sent L.B.A

06th Feb - Inital offer of 647 - Refused

07th Feb - Full offer of £1181.50 - Accepted !

10th Feb - Money in my account ! YES

 

My Story....http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank/55295-king-dongel-halifax.html

 

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If she wasn't even there why did she pay them £60??? :confused:

Come to think of it she was parked in my driveway today can you ask her to send me £60 to?

 

 

Not the most helpful or constructive post

Whatever I post is my opinion and should be taken as such, an opinion. While it is what I believe and is offered in good faith, it should not be taken as a statement of truth

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Grean and mean - she paid as the threatening letter said if she didnt pay in 14 days it would go up to 85..........then upto 185........then to court.

 

Id say that most people put in that position would do the same thing.

 

If you actually have anything constructive to add.........please feel free.

Haliax

5th December - Sent S.A.R

5th January - Received Statements

6th January - Sent Prelim Letter for £1181.50

16th January - Reply recieved - we'll look into it

22nd January - Sent L.B.A

06th Feb - Inital offer of 647 - Refused

07th Feb - Full offer of £1181.50 - Accepted !

10th Feb - Money in my account ! YES

 

My Story....http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank/55295-king-dongel-halifax.html

 

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Green and mean, please keep your comments civil or refrain from posting, thank you.

KD, have you checked the registration given on the ticket? You might well find that it was somebody elses ticket that they put on your windscreen when they got back to the car...

 

If you have proof you were not in the car park at that time, then an appeal should get your money back.

 

 

HSBC WON three times!!!!! Read about my continuing battle (claim FOUR!) Link HERE

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Lloyds bank account WON second claim starting! link HERE

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Principles WON link HERE

A&L (Mrs Crusher's account) claim link HERE

Barclays claim link HERE

 

Any advice given is on an informal basis only and without prejudice or liability. In in any doubt, consult a qualified lawyer.

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Cheers for the reply........

 

The PCN does show the correct reg no. I was considering asking for photo evidence, that would rely on a date/time stamp on the photo ??? but i suppose that could be falsified as easily as the time on the ticket.

 

I can get a letter from the doctors confirming she had an appointment at 15.30, along with the map of the carpark next door. Thats about as much proof as i have.

 

Suppose at the minute Im assuming that they will either ignore all of this and state she was parked there - or simply ignore everything....

Haliax

5th December - Sent S.A.R

5th January - Received Statements

6th January - Sent Prelim Letter for £1181.50

16th January - Reply recieved - we'll look into it

22nd January - Sent L.B.A

06th Feb - Inital offer of 647 - Refused

07th Feb - Full offer of £1181.50 - Accepted !

10th Feb - Money in my account ! YES

 

My Story....http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank/55295-king-dongel-halifax.html

 

__________________

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Green and mean, please keep your comments civil or refrain from posting, thank you.

KD, have you checked the registration given on the ticket? You might well find that it was somebody elses ticket that they put on your windscreen when they got back to the car...

 

If you have proof you were not in the car park at that time, then an appeal should get your money back.

 

Since when has asking a question been rude or is there another meaning to 'civil'? Surely moderation should be reserved for profane language etc not censoring the opinion and questions of posters?

I was simply trying to understand why someone would get a bill from a parking company for parking at a time and place when they were not even there and pay it without question?

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Grean and mean - she paid as the threatening letter said if she didnt pay in 14 days it would go up to 85..........then upto 185........then to court.

 

Id say that most people put in that position would do the same thing.

 

If you actually have anything constructive to add.........please feel free.

 

PCNs do not go up or end up in Court a Penalty charge notice can only be dealt with by the Council (or their sub contractor) or the Parking adjudicator. I hope this post is not deemed too offensive to you or the board mods?

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The ticket was paid because it was stated that the violation was "no permit" it was assumed that she had parked in a restricted area, or over double yellows or something like that.....

 

I only just realsed that "no permit" meant no ticket - then I clicked that they issued the ticket 30 mins before she arrived - basically - they went up to the car - at 16.30ish - slapped on a ticket and timed it an hour before so it looked like she had parked there with no ticket - basically its fraud.......and possibly obtaining money by deception. The worse part is they could do this to anyone - how are you supposed to prove you werent parked there when they issued a ticket ???

 

I just want to know what i should do when Parkforce dont refund the money....

Haliax

5th December - Sent S.A.R

5th January - Received Statements

6th January - Sent Prelim Letter for £1181.50

16th January - Reply recieved - we'll look into it

22nd January - Sent L.B.A

06th Feb - Inital offer of 647 - Refused

07th Feb - Full offer of £1181.50 - Accepted !

10th Feb - Money in my account ! YES

 

My Story....http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank/55295-king-dongel-halifax.html

 

__________________

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can you prove the car was not parked there (ie parked in another car park)

 

 

HSBC WON three times!!!!! Read about my continuing battle (claim FOUR!) Link HERE

Capital One WON Link

HERE

GE capital (5 accounts) WON link HERE

Lloyds bank account WON second claim starting! link HERE

Budget insurance cough up WON link HERE

Principles WON link HERE

A&L (Mrs Crusher's account) claim link HERE

Barclays claim link HERE

 

Any advice given is on an informal basis only and without prejudice or liability. In in any doubt, consult a qualified lawyer.

IF YOU HAVE GOT YOUR MONEY BACK, PUT SOME BACK INTO THE SITE TO HELP KEEP IT OPEN!

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The worse part is they could do this to anyone - how are you supposed to prove you werent parked there when they issued a ticket ???

 

 

That is the point I was making before you started to attack me, they have no more right to demand money from you than I have. You do not have to prove anything why should you, you have broken no laws or any contract you had with Parkforce?

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You do not have to prove anything why should you, you have broken no laws or any contract you had with Parkforce?
I think there is an important point here. If you get a penalty notice, say, for staying longer than the allowed time, you can recalim on the basis that this is an unlawful penalty for breach of contract.

 

However, if you haven't paid (or indeed weren't even there) you have no contract so you cannot claim back an unlawful penalty for breach of contract.

Steven

 

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Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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PCNs do not go up or end up in Court a Penalty charge notice can only be dealt with by the Council (or their sub contractor) or the Parking adjudicator. I hope this post is not deemed too offensive to you or the board mods?

 

Perhaps if someone connected up all the dots, it would become obvious that this is not a PCN but a private parking ticket.

 

Whatever she writes or proves, Parkforce will probably not make any sort of refund unless you issue an LBA followed by a court summons for restitution

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Is it possible that both carparks are patrolled by Parkforce?

 

Another explanation is that the machine issuing the ticket simply had the wong time in it.

 

In any event, can you clarify something in relation to the car park where your mum got the ticket? Was she expected to pay for parking and did she, or was it a "permit holders only" car park?

 

Also it would be helpful if you can get details of any signs on display.

Do you/your mum still have all the paperwork, letters, etc?

 

This info will help get a picture of what has gone on here and enable suggestions to be made.

 

My gut feeling is that as this ticket has been paid by your mum, she and only she can claim it back. This presents a problem as the basisc mechanism revolves around the enforcer asking the keeper to pay, the keeper says I am not responsible and you should pursue the driver. The keeper has no obligation to name the driver and the keeper has no responsibility in law for the fee. The enforcer is then stuffed as he does not know who to claim against. However in this case the enforcer knows, I guess, that your mum is the driver.

 

This is all quite separate from the law on penalties which, to recover you will need details of all the relevant words on the signs and the letters. It may then be possible to form an argument that the fee was an unlawful penalty but you won't get that back, I suspect, without issuing a claim through the court and that does involve the risk of the court fee etc.

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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Is it possible to get a scan of the ticket? It might help us explore grounds for demanding repayment.

Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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Dear All - thanks for the replies

 

I have a copy of about half of the ticket - unfortunatly you can only make out the registration no. and the time the ticket was issued.

 

I think the whole arguement revolves around the fact the ticket was issued at a time when the car wasnt even in the car park - as far as proof goes i can get a letter stating she had a dentist appointment at the time the ticket was issued, and was parked in a different private car park opposite (which is no where near the one where she received the ticket).

 

Unfortunatly I cant get any proof from that car park.

 

I think this may be one for the small claims court.........

Haliax

5th December - Sent S.A.R

5th January - Received Statements

6th January - Sent Prelim Letter for £1181.50

16th January - Reply recieved - we'll look into it

22nd January - Sent L.B.A

06th Feb - Inital offer of 647 - Refused

07th Feb - Full offer of £1181.50 - Accepted !

10th Feb - Money in my account ! YES

 

My Story....http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank/55295-king-dongel-halifax.html

 

__________________

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I think the whole arguement revolves around the fact the ticket was issued at a time when the car wasnt even in the car park - as far as proof goes i can get a letter stating she had a dentist appointment at the time the ticket was issued, and was parked in a different private car park opposite (which is no where near the one where she received the ticket).

 

 

The whole thing actually revolves around several issues such as the validity of issuing a ticket for not displaying a permit/ticket in a car park by a private company, correct signage, level of £60 charge etc etc

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