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Can someone please look over these figures for me


hayley
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Hi

 

Before i start you may need a piece of paper:) . I had a secured loan with Citi Financial a few years ago and i only had the loan for 5 months and i settled it. I am questioning the amount i paid back to them, as the loan was for £3,0654.54 plus insurance that i did not really want which was £5,428.71 and £400 fees which totalled £36,483.25. We had the loan for 5 months and paid £1,400.61 in monthly payments. When we settled we had to pay back £35,183.79. I requested Citi to send me a breakdown of how they come to this figure and here is what they said:

 

The total amount borrowed in September 2004 was £36,483.25. Your agreement was over a period of 240 months and your payments were £466.87per month. You settled your account in February 2005 when the account had been opened for 5 months

 

The insurance sold on the account was £5,428.71 over a period of 60 months, as per your signed contract. After 5 months the rebate was calculated at £4,245.07, making the amount of insurance you paid during the time the account was open £1,183.64, this figure has been calculated correctly in line with the guidelines set out by the Finance and Leasing Association (FLA).

 

The insurance rebate of £71,230.72 is also calculated in line with the FLA guidelines. The interest is worked out by 240 x £466.87 = £112,048.80 (total to be repaid) minus the total amount financed £36,483.25, which gives you the total interest amount due of £75,565.55.

 

Any help with this one would be greatfully appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

Hayley

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Well they haven't sent you a breakdown have they, you should expect to see a document like a statement of account will all the debits and credits on. I should ask to see this if I were you.

 

Also you dont mention what interest rates were applicable, and whether or not the contract terms allowed for a penalty for early repayment as they often will.

 

That said the ball park figure have the right sort of feel given my experience of secured lending. What do others think?

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Well they haven't sent you a breakdown have they, you should expect to see a document like a statement of account will all the debits and credits on. I should ask to see this if I were you.

 

Also you dont mention what interest rates were applicable, and whether or not the contract terms allowed for a penalty for early repayment as they often will.

 

That said the ball park figure have the right sort of feel given my experience of secured lending. What do others think?

 

Thanks for your response debtsurvivor.

 

I dont think there were any redemtion penalties and as far as asking for i statement of account i have i dont know how many times, i sent an SAR in December and they fobbed me off for months and in July i got a solicitor to write to ask them to send my statement of account and this is what i got.

 

The interest rate says A.P.R 15.7% (Rate of interest 1.21% per month)

 

Thanks Hayley

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I haven't a clue how they would work it out but are you saying the PPI was mis sold?

 

Hi gizmo111

 

Yes, i am saying that we were misold the ppi but i cannot prove it, basically what happened was we had the loan to clear some debts so Citi wrote all the cheques out to our creditors.

 

On the day we went down to the office and sign the paperwork and collect the cheques, we looked and the cheques and there was one missing for £4700 for a debt we owed to Lloyds TSB so we asked why the cheque wasn't there and the man told us that because we were only allowed a certain amount for the loan they could not pay Lloyds TSB because we had to have the insurance which took us up to the maximum we could borrow. We said that we would rather pay Lloyds TSB than have the insurance but we were told we had to have the insurance.

 

The problem we have is being young and stupid at the time we did not read things before signing and looking at the paperwork now in the small print it does say that the insurance is optional and not a condition or requirement of the loan agreement, so i dont think we would have a leg to stand on as it is their word against ours.

 

Thanks

 

Hayley:)

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When you sent the SAR did you send the £10 fee? If you didn't they are probably within their rights to ignore you.

 

If you did, send them the non-compliance letter from in here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

 

If you didn't, send it now, including the £10 fee and you'll set the clock ticking on them having to comply.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

 

Adapt this to suit your needs.

 

Good luck.

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When you sent the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) did you send the £10 fee? If you didn't they are probably within their rights to ignore you.

 

If you did, send them the non-compliance letter from in here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

 

If you didn't, send it now, including the £10 fee and you'll set the clock ticking on them having to comply.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

 

Adapt this to suit your needs.

 

Good luck.

 

Thanks for your advice, i did send the £10 fee and after the 40 days sent a non compliance letter but they still ignored me.

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The interest rate says A.P.R 15.7% (Rate of interest 1.21% per month)

 

 

 

Its a very high rate for secured lending approaching 3 x base rate. If they are charging 1.21% per month the a statement should look exactly like a credit card statement does showing everything that was charged, eg. the advance, all the charges, if interest was 1.21% per month then I would expect to see that monthly, and all your individual payment should be shown.

 

I take it that this was a debt consolidation loan. Any decent lender would give you this without a problem. Its may be worth asking your self as the solicitor may not have asked for a detailed statement, sounds like they might have asked for a breakdown of a redemption figure. Id be inclined if you want to take things further to try to rattle cages over non reply to SAR and be guided by others here.

 

That said it depends what you want to achieve. If these were the terms then the final payment figure does seem in the right ball park.

 

Best - DS

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Sounds like mis selling to me - but proving it is a different matter. What is it you are hoping to get back from Citi?

 

IMO companies are not allowed to force insurance on you as part of a loan so insisting that you take out insurance to pay LTSB is mis-selling.

 

Regardless if you ticked the box or signed above small print the Bank must clearly explain what the insurance will cover, enquire if you already have a product that will deliver the same cover and also send you copies of the appropriate insurance documents.

 

Chk out the PPI thread for more detail http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/ppi/

 

Its not up to you to prove that the insurance was sold correctly but the banks.

 

Make a claim for mis-selling use the following template

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER

Their References

 

Their Address

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Re: Complaint and request for return of Payment Protection Insurance premium and contractual interest. Account no: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On [Date] I took out an unsecured loan with you bank of £xxxx.

When I took it out, I signed up for Payment Protection Insurance [PPI]. At the time I was experiencing some short term financial difficulties and I was told that I could not have the loan unless I agreed to take the insurance.

No claim was ever made under the policy.

I now realise following the recent OFT and FSA investigations, that you mis-sold me this insurance policy, which I did not want and did not need. I believe I signed up for the insurance under economic duress and that your actions were unconscionable

I am writing to ask you to refund the premium paid together with interest equal to your APR at the time under the accepted principle of mutuality and reciprocity.

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my loan account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

Firstly, I understand that at the time I entered into the contract with you your bank was running an incentive scheme to encourage your employees to sell PPI schemes, as were several other High Street banks. A former employee of yours has posted the following on a public website in September this year:

No attempt was made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed if I really needed it at all. No enquiry was made as whether I had pre-existing insurance for accident, illness or unemployment.

I was not given a copy of the insurance policy nor were any rights to cancel explained. I believe you manifestly failed in your fiduciary responsibilities, your duty of care.

Secondly, I understand under the Consumer Credit Acts and following a House of Lords judgement, that you are not allowed to make a loan conditional on taking PPI unless you include the costs of PPI as part of the charge for credit and not the credit itself.

You did not do this. You added it to the total for credit and then charged me further interest on the premium on top of the interest for the loan. This is unacceptable.

Finally I believe insurance contracts are contracts uberrimae fidei (contracts of the utmost good faith) which imposes on you a “duty of disclosure of all material facts because one party is in a strong position to know the truth.” Inter alia, I believe that you should have disclosed to me that the type of policy you sold me, a single payment premium, did not give a pro-rata refund in event of early settlement. I believe you should have made it clear to me that the policy generated large profits for you. You failed to do this. I believe that you have also therefore failed in your duty of disclosure. Your failure to disclose is misrepresentation at common law.

What I require

Your concealment of the act of mis-selling has prevented me from asserting my right until now. I believe that there are strong grounds for action against you under common law, statute and consumer regulations.

The original premium was £xxxxx debited to my account on [date]. You refunded xxxx on [date] following my early settlement of the loan, reflecting an actual premium charge of £xxxxx

I require the £xxxxx premium charge refunded with interest from 6th November to date of £xxxxx, totaling £xxxxxx.

The total claim is therefore £xxxxx.

I have calculated interest at 9% APR., which I estimate was your APR at the time, reflecting the principal of mutuality and reciprocity. I am sure you will advise me if the APR at the time was different. Alternatively I will ask the Court to allow me statutory interest at 8% under SK9 of the Count Court Act.

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets. I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that this time frame is sufficient for a large company such as yours with its dedicated staff and departments.

Failure to respond within this timescale will result in a complaint being lodged with the FOS & the office of fair trading, ultimately I reserve my rights to resolution through courts action.

 

Yours faithfully,

I'm not an expert so check everything I tell you, however click me scales if I've been useful.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

There is no freemasonry like the freemasonry of Golf

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Sounds like mis selling to me - but proving it is a diferent matter.

 

What is ti you are hoping to get back from Citi?

 

 

Hi Gizmo

 

I just felt that i paid back alot considering i only had the loan for a short period, and it makes me mad that i didn't read things before i signed. I just wanted someone else to have a look at the figures.

 

Cheers

Hayley

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IMO companies are not allowed to force insurance on you as part of a loan so insisting that you take out insurance to pay LTSB is mis-selling.

 

Regardless if you ticked the box or signed above small print the Bank must clearly explain what the insurance will cover, enquire if you already have a product that will deliver the same cover and also send you copies of the appropriate insurance documents.

 

Chk out the PPI thread for more detail http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/ppi/

 

Its not up to you to prove that the insurance was sold correctly but the banks.

 

Make a claim for mis-selling use the following template

 

Thank you conar686, i may try sending that and she what reply i get. Citi Finance are really hard work to deal with though, they never get back to you and send you something different to what you ask for but its worth a go.

 

Thanks again:)

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If they do not take your request seriously complain to FoS, FSA & Trading Standards

I'm not an expert so check everything I tell you, however click me scales if I've been useful.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

There is no freemasonry like the freemasonry of Golf

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