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unfair dismisal. do I have a case?


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Hi folks, Would of prefered my first post being one giving a bit of advice but what can you do eh.

 

I recently went through a spell of illness early this year and missed about 15 days work spread over about 6 occasions within about 4 months. this resulted in a warning follwed by a final warning. I had no issue with it and did not apeal as I accepted it was my fault.

 

I had no abbsences for the past 4 months until late august when I was very ill with a water infection. I still came into work while I was sick until finally I passed out at work. They took me out of my workplace in an ambulance and I woke up in hostpital a few hours later.

 

Fearing my job was in trouble because of the final warning I was given 4 months earlier I decided to go back into work on my next scheduled day in.

When I went in I looked pretty awful and was quite slow because of the medication the hostpital put me on. Slurred speach, blurry vision and nausia.

 

I was in work for 10 minutes beore my boss told me to go home and not return for at least a week or until my GP was conifdent I was fit for work.

I returned to work 6 days later with a letter from my doctor saying I had finished my course of meds and could start work straight away. I had kept in touch with my employer every day I was off to keep them up to date.

 

That was 2 weeks ago.

 

This morning I was brought in for a disiplinary where I was told by the head of personel that because I had made the choice not to come in during this illness my employment was now terminated.

It was not me who called the ambulance and when I tried to return to work they sent me home.

 

I feel the decision to sack me was unfair.

 

Does anyone think I have been unfairly treated?

What can I do?

 

Any advice would be hugeley appreciated.

thanks

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Do you have a copy of your employer's disciplinary policy and absence management policy i.e. what levels of absence trigger each level of disciplinary action? periods of hospitalisation should (in best practice) not be counted in absence discipline.

 

We need to establish if they are following their own procedures and applying them fairly.

 

Can you give more details?

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Can you give the following information in the meantime:

 

1. Are you on a temporary or permanent contract?

2. If permanent - how long have you been there?

3. Were you advised of your right to appeal against dismissal?

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I am on a permanent contract and have been with my emplyer for about 17 months.

I was told I would recieve appeal papers in the mail and would have 7 days to appeal.

 

Am I right in asuming my appeal would go to the head of personel wich is the guy who terminted my contract in the first place? I'm worried it would simply fall on deaf ears.

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Thanks for the info -we're getting there ....

 

Its important that you do appeal - the appeal should be heard by a manager or director more senior to the person who made the decision.

 

A few more questions - (sorry, I'm just trying to get as much of the picture as I can to be able to advise you further).

 

1. At each stage of disciplinary were you advised in writing that your attendance was subject to an investigatory meeting?

 

2. At each stage were you advised you had the right to be accompanied by a colleague or trade union rep.

 

3. If so, did you exercise your right to be accompanied?

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Ask whatever you want Ell-enn, I'm really greatful for your time.

 

I was advised in writing that my attendance was subject to an investigatory meeting.

 

I was advised that I had the right to be accompanied by a colleague or trade union rep.

 

I did not take anyone in with me. (begining to wish I had now)

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Thanks - it would have been helpful, but not essential, if you'd taken a colleague with you. However, we have to deal with what we have - you must make sure you take a trusted colleague (or union rep - are you in a union?) to the appeal. Have you had any written notes of the disciplinary meetings?

 

Once you can let me have the details of the company's disciplinary policy/absence policy I will be able to give you more information.

 

What kind of business are we dealing with - is it public or private sector? manufacturing or administration.

 

Also - what is their track record with dismissals for absence?

 

I know all these questions will be a pain - but we have to get it right to take this forward.

 

Hope this is helpful to you - try not to worry too much until we get to the appeal.

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Ell-enn I am really grateul to you for this help.

I had the company's disciplinary policy/absence policies with me today but I was so stunned by what was going on that I left them all behind. I should be able to get copies o them monday morning.

 

I am not in a union but after today I think I should join one. Although I understand it is too late for aunion to help with this current situation.

 

I am unsure what their track record is.

 

I work in administration/customer service or a largge retail chain.

 

Thanks again Ell-enn. you've been a great help.

I will have those details to you monday morning.

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That's great. We'll get to work on your appeal when you let me have those details.

 

I'm happy to answer any questions any time - you'll probably think of a few more soon.... lol

 

If you think I've been of help, please feel free to tip my scales:)

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When I said tip my scales - I didn't mean make a donation - you shouldn't donate until you know if you still have a job and can afford it.

 

Tipping scales is another way of saying add a reputation point (the scales are at the left hand side at the bottom of the box with my name and details.. lol

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lol will do, thanks.

 

I do have another question for you.

I can't afford to wait till after my appeal to apply for a new job. I have never been dismissed before and as I understand it any potential employer checking my references will be told the reason for my leaving my last job.

 

Is that right?

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It would depend on the job you were applying for as to what is asked for in a reference. A lot of employers are now sending out "standard" references i.e. confirming the dates of employment, and position held and nothing else, this avoids the chance of them being sued by former employees.

 

"The House of Lords held that an employer who gives a reference in respect of a former employee owed that employee a duty to take reasonable care in its preparation and would be liable to him in negligence if he failed to do so and the employee thereby suffered economic damage" Mason Hayes+Curran April 2006.

 

There is nothing to stop you looking for another job in the meantime - if your appeal is successful and you are reinstated, you may not want to continue working for that company anyway.

 

Hope this is helpful.

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no problem, honestly - I'm an HR Practitioner by day and certainly don't mind helping with employment problems on this site. I have a particular hatred for unfairness and always try to ensure the employees under my duty of care are treated fairly (even if they do try my patience from time to time lol).

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P.S. you'll find a lot of people much smarter than me on this site ! it's just that HR and mediation is my best subject......

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Hi folks, Would of prefered my first post being one giving a bit of advice but what can you do eh.

 

I recently went through a spell of illness early this year and missed about 15 days work spread over about 6 occasions within about 4 months. this resulted in a warning follwed by a final warning. I had no issue with it and did not apeal as I accepted it was my fault.

 

I had no abbsences for the past 4 months until late august when I was very ill with a water infection. I still came into work while I was sick until finally I passed out at work. They took me out of my workplace in an ambulance and I woke up in hostpital a few hours later.

 

Fearing my job was in trouble because of the final warning I was given 4 months earlier I decided to go back into work on my next scheduled day in.

When I went in I looked pretty awful and was quite slow because of the medication the hostpital put me on. Slurred speach, blurry vision and nausia.

 

I was in work for 10 minutes beore my boss told me to go home and not return for at least a week or until my GP was conifdent I was fit for work.

I returned to work 6 days later with a letter from my doctor saying I had finished my course of meds and could start work straight away. I had kept in touch with my employer every day I was off to keep them up to date.

 

That was 2 weeks ago.

 

This morning I was brought in for a disiplinary where I was told by the head of personel that because I had made the choice not to come in during this illness my employment was now terminated.

It was not me who called the ambulance and when I tried to return to work they sent me home.

 

I feel the decision to sack me was unfair.

 

Does anyone think I have been unfairly treated?

What can I do?

 

Any advice would be hugeley appreciated.

thanks

Sorry I'm not of much help here but when I saw your employers comment I just couldn't help saying something. A little while ago a polish worker collapsed and died (heartattack I think) at the factory where I work. Talk was they just moved him to the one side until someone came to deal with him. I found this unbelieveable until more recently another worker collapsed. Where he works is only about 7 ft wide and about 4 or 5 other people work in the same area. Did they stop to allow the paramedics to deal with it? no of course not.

So how dare you get sick lol. Oh and by the way, if you are going to die, make sure your funeral can be held on the weekend so your friends don't have to take time off work.

 

I hope you don't take offence to those last couple of sentences but these are just further examples of how unimportant we are compared to profit.

HALIFAX: 13/01/07 Sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter (marked as rec'd 16/01)

Paid in full in March 07

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Sorry I'm not of much help here but when I saw your employers comment I just couldn't help saying something. A little while ago a polish worker collapsed and died (heartattack I think) at the factory where I work. Talk was they just moved him to the one side until someone came to deal with him. I found this unbelieveable until more recently another worker collapsed. Where he works is only about 7 ft wide and about 4 or 5 other people work in the same area. Did they stop to allow the paramedics to deal with it? no of course not.

So how dare you get sick lol. Oh and by the way, if you are going to die, make sure your funeral can be held on the weekend so your friends don't have to take time off work.

 

I hope you don't take offence to those last couple of sentences but these are just further examples of how unimportant we are compared to profit.

 

 

lol like I said in the disciplinary office "It's not like it was me who called the ambulance"

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djgordyp - did anyone inform H&S Inspectors? surely this can't be allowed to continue. Also are the Polish workers legal - if there is any doubt Immigration should be informed. These people are being exploited and it's WRONG. If you have any doubts at all contact the Health & Safety Executive

HSE Infoline 0845 345 0055

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My brother was sacked for bad sick record a few years ago. He was very silly in that he had final warning and took a day off when anyone with any sense would have crawled into work as you obviously did. Biggest problem he faced was that he actually worked for the Employment Tribunals :p. So not only could he not get a solicitor in the local area to represent him, but we had to conclude that they MUST have got their procedures right. Anyway happy ending, he worked for me for 18 months (bad idea) but now has a superb job doing payroll for a large company.

 

From what you have said you have been treated very unfairly and you have not had a great deal of sick leave by most people's standards. It will obviously depend on their policy and I will leave you in Ell-enn's capable hands.

 

I have been to lots of Employment Tribunals on behalf of clients (and a couple of my own) and I know for a fact that if they have not done absolutely everything to the letter they will lose. One of my clients sacked two guys for theft - the police could not find enough evidence to prosecute but we worked out that we had enough to sack them. We lost the tribunal cos we had not given them something written at the very start of things, even though we had followed the disciplinary procedure to the letter up to the point we finally sacked them.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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djgordyp - did anyone inform H&S Inspectors? surely this can't be allowed to continue. Also are the Polish workers legal - if there is any doubt Immigration should be informed. These people are being exploited and it's WRONG. If you have any doubts at all contact the Health & Safety Executive

HSE Infoline 0845 345 0055

With regard to the worker who passed away I believe it was natural causes as was the case with the worker who was taken to hopsital. I have no reason to believe these workers are illegal. After all Polish, Ukrainian, East Timor and Latvian workers comprise roughly 70% of the workforce. I think Immiigration already know about the factory. Recently some Portugese workers (we thought) were sent home. Turns out they were Brazilians with Portugese passports.

The fact there are so many foreign workers is probably why my employers think they can get away with changing our pay structure as I have detailed here.

 

Sorry I have gone off topic here. I have no doubt DNA123 will win the case

HALIFAX: 13/01/07 Sent S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) letter (marked as rec'd 16/01)

Paid in full in March 07

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You're absolutely right Goldlady - as I said before, more tribunals are lost because employers haven't followed their own published procedures, never mind the legal protocol. Second on the list for losing is being inconsistent - if an employer does not take action against one employee for the same offence then they shouldnot discipline another. In many cases it won't get to a tribunal, as soon as the employer's lawyer knows they've not followed procedure they settle out of ET.

Employees will continue to be treated unfairly until HR practitioners start being practitioners and educate those at the top - i.e stop being used as management tools!! Empathy without Sympathy and Assertiveness without Aggression is a good starting point (sorry, on my soap box again!)

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DNA123

 

Can you let me have a list of your sickness absences over the last 12 months i.e. first day of absence and duration.

 

I then need to know the dates of each disciplinary and what stage warning you were given at each stage.

 

If you could send me this while we are waiting for copies of the policies I can start to put something together.

 

There will probably be lots of other questions I need to ask - but they're all necessary if we are to put a good appeal forward.

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