In order to apply the notional capital rule HB would have to have to show that on the balance of probablities you have a certain amount of money. From what I know it is up to the claimant to show otherwise that's why proof of payments of rent at £300 a week are important as together with your living expenses - you would soon be able to show that you qualify for housing benefit. If the forms do not ask for capital amounts going back six months and just the last 2-3 bank statements are needed then my guess is that HB would not be discussing notional capital with you. It is far more likely that someone receiving say £150,000 through inheritance and was on benefits prior - then blows most of the money in say a year and trys to reclaim - they would be stuck for years with notional capital slowly coming down. If your not claiming benefits right now and receive £20,000 - which after all is not a great deal of money - it wouldn't raise many eyebrows to be spending £3000 on a car and paying down your debts - seems quite sensible spending to me !

I agree with you that you shouldn't be dictated to as to how you spend your money .. thats your choice I would however like to point out a couple of things £20,000 in capital is only £4000 over the threshold so if you are not working it wouldn't take long to fall below the upper threshold. If after a period of a few months you find yourself renting a 3 bed house at £300 a week - they HB might award a reduced amount re: over occupancy - same happened to me a few years ago and I was a single parent with a disabled child in a 3 bed and had to make up the shortfall. If you also have notional capital knocked off at £40 a week on top and are unable to downsize as you've signed a tenancy agreement keeping you there you might regret it. The other more important thing to bear in mind is this - On the latest forms Re: Income Support ( may well be the same for HB ) they ask whether you have had capital over £5,500 in the last SIX MONTHS - They might only ask for 2-3 Bank Statements - but they are able to come back at a later date and talk about overpayments if they are able to establish a figure above £6,000 in the previous 6 months.

Hi Confused Well I hold a different view to some of the other posters on this thread The OP is due to receive £20,000 so he will be unable to claim housing benefit as he has capital above £16,000 The thresholds - £6000 Lower to £16,000 higher with an assumed income of £1 for every £250 is explained by way of an assumed income based on capital generating interest ( so the deduction of max £40 on capital of £16,000 - even though with interest rates now you would struggle to acheive 5% -£16 ) Its NOT because you are greedy or have too much money to be claiming means tested benefits. Now reading closely what the OP intends to spend his £20,000 on I would like to comment on the living expenses and private rent that he intends to pay - £1400 a month sounds a lot ! - over £300 a week and this is where the OP would have a serious problem. Forget the holiday & Car and paying down his debts for a moment The way forward would be to rent a cheaper property say - £100 a week and with living expenses of say another £100 a week - £200 a week divided into £4000 = 20 weeks say 5 months. So my advice would be 5 months after receiving £20,000 accept the notional capital figure of £16,000 and you would have a max of £40 deducted from your private rent - and would be quite entitled to claim Housing Benefit without anyone on this forum criticising you for your actions. Keep all receipts possible and point to David Cameron's quote about paying down debts whilst at the same time within reason accepting the notional capital figure - bearing in mind that you could argue it out at a tribunal - I personally don't think that £3000 for a car is lavish spending - far from it. Bear in mind that you cannot be accused of depravation of capital in order to claim housing benefit if you list the expenditure with them and can clearly show after 5 months that you qualify by way of having less than £16,000 capital even if the notional capital rules applies. So you would not in any way be claiming means tested benefits dishonestly.

I have been getting DLA on behalf of my daughter for 6 years ( thats 40 something quid a week ) amounts to around £12000 - I havn't saved that amount but my account has on a few occasions reached £6000 plus - All the incoming payments on my bank statements are from benefits e.g. income support/carers allowance/Child benefit/DLA. So strictly speaking when the amount goes above £6000 ( every £250 is treated as £1 income ) As a lone parent I am able to earn £20 a week without it affecting my benefits so does the income above count towards the £20 ? A child is allowed £2500 in savings - surely it cannot be the case that none of the DLA is treated as the childs money even though the disability payments are in place because the child is disabled ? It seems an unfair system if they can give you money in one hand because your entitled to it then take it away when it suits them. I could understand if you had a windfall / insurance payout / inheritance etc that boosted your savings above the threshold but not when its the actual money that they have paid you themselves.

Hi it depends what benefit you are on - £6000 - £16000 for means tested income support maybe If its your own savings from money given to you from benefits - It seems a bit unfair to receive a cut in benefits for going over the threshold if you've simply been sensible or prudent concerning your money ! As a single parent of a disabled child I've managed to save up over the years and have never really been sure as to where the thresholds are set - my child receives DLA but into my account so is this money counted as my money or my childs ? and if this DLA money is saved up over the years does this deny me benefits once i reach the thresholds ?

I now have the Doctor/School/Diabetic Nurse all supporting me and writing direct to the council. Only one missing is social services but then they are part of the council so that doesn't surprise me at all. The housing Needs team contacted me again today to say that they are aware of my situation but pointed out that there are no available houses on their books and that temporary accommodation is most likely. The landlord sent 2 workmen around today to measure up for new windows so it is quite clear that he intends to do the work on the property after I have left at the end of the tenancy ( 7 weeks to Go now ) If I am still in the property after the tenancy expires then I will arm myself with all the paperwork and will contact the local paper and MP. I will not be impressed if I have to go down the route of cout costs/ legal fees CCJs and will fight this with every ounce of strength as the law allows this injustice to take place. Shelter told me that I can try to bill the council with the court costs and they know of a few cases where the council have paid up as they obviously realise it is an outrage to expect someone that doesnt have debts/arrears to be taken to court when it is them the council that have caused the situation. It is a joke that I might have to speak to the landlord on the quiet and inform him that i will be able to go once he has issued me with a possession order and ask him not to incur too many costs in the process. Seems a bit difficult to withold the last months rent to reclaim my deposit as if I am still in the property after the tenancy expires then he will also take me to court for rent arrears and then I might fall into the bracket of "Intentionally making myself homeless" Difficult to win in a situation like this !

Hi I am under a section 21 where the Landlord wants the property back at the end of the tenancy, and am a lone parent with a disabled child. Has the landlord issued you with a Section 21 notice to quit yet ? If and when he does then immediately inform the council that you wish to make a homeless application. It is important that you are not classed as making yourself intentionally homeless due to rent arrears. Therefore you should make it quite clear to housing benefit that it is them the council that are forcing you to become homeless. If you do become homeless then the council have to by law house you ( temporary accommodation at first ) and hopefully a council house/housing association property. Consider any medical needs and if so visit the doctor as this will help increase your points tally. I have got a doctors report / school / diabetic nurse etc to support me and the housing needs team are now taking me seriously. Stay strong and keep contacting the council if necessary every day so that they understand that you are not going away. I personally have nothing but contempt for the council departments who frankly dont seem to sort out anything and cause so much misery and stress. It is so important to keep on their case as you dont want them going down the road of ( intentionally homeless ) as i have checked myself and the end result is a much longer wait for a council property. Shelter are a good bet as they can contact the HB on your behalf and fight your corner, then you wont have to worry so much about the homeless aspect. Dave

Thanks Legal Eagle I can give you an update to my situation I got a letter from social services in response to a lengthy phone call last week. Remember it was the CAB that gave me the number to ring for the Child/Disability section of SS - The letter explained that thhere was nothing they could do and they sent me a photocopy of the details of the nearest CAB office to contact. That amounted to a complete joke and a waste of time me contacting them in the first place. I made it clear to them that all I wanted was a letter of support concerning my housing situation. I came to the conclusion that anyone that doesn't know me personally or my daughter had no interest in supporting me in any way. On to the next port of call .... Doctor ... he knows me and must understand the medical needs of my daughter and the impact of homelessness on her disability. Struck lucky - Doctor thoroughly agreed and did not need persuading in any way - after all the medication that my daughter takes has to be kept in a fridge - insulin - a clear liquid that can be lethal in the wrong hands ( Dr Shipman knew that and used it to good effect ). To share a fridge with other homeless people with alcohol and drug problems is simply not acceptable. Doctor sends back medical report to the housing and within days the housing department ring me informing me that my daughter's disability adds an extra 50 pts to my tally. next port of call ... School ... where they already had concerns surrounding her disability and emotions. They were very supportive ( might have something to do with the fact that they know her and me ) and didnt need any persuading concerning letter of support which I am about to receive any day now. Thats 2 on my side and critical ones at that. To answer a few of your points .... 1 Environmental health department Yes they came out about 18 months ago and contacted the landlord Re: work that needed to be done - That is probably the reason why I now have the section 21 to quit - I remember the guy from the environmental health saying to me that he couldn't force the landlord to do the work ... could only ask him, and some landlords get the hump. The main areas of work are the windows ( rotting frames ) front and back, kitchen and bathroom in great need of modernisation. structural damage to garage outside. Last inventory was the one when I moved in 10 years ago. 2 The deposit HB pays me direct and then I pay by cheque to the agent every month. Problem is that I pay one month in advance so it may be difficult to withold rent and may even lead the housing department to come to the conclusion that I have intentionally made myself homeless. But it might give me some flexibility if I were to know when I was moving and where. 3. Court & Legal proceedings Shelter now say that I can only challenge the council over these costs and having to stay until a possession order is granted if I can show that the council have failed to consider supporting evidence and that it is unreasonable to expect me to remain in the property. Now its a waiting game - and a countdown till my tenancy ends. I intend to get a reference from the agency stating that i have paid rent to them for 13 years and have never fallen behind with my rent. When my tenancy expires I will then see my local MP with all available documents and see what influence he might have. It is remarkable that Shelter, CAB, housing etc all say sorry theres nothing they can do but as soon as one person ( Doctor ) backs me - they now would like to look at the medical evidence and are treating me as a person and not just a number, because they all must know how powerful a medical argument can be, and how it brings legal arguments into play.

I will also be pointing out to the council that I have given them three months warning of the impending homelessness which cannot be regarded as a short length of time 17.34. The Secretary of State considers that the limited circumstances in which B&B hotels may provide suitable accommodation could include those where: (a) emergency accommodation is required at very short notice (for example to discharge the interim duty to accommodate under s.188); or (b) there is simply no better alternative accommodation available and the use of B&B accommodation is necessary as a last resort. ....... and I will get my local MP to check with them that there is no other suitable accommodation available and see if they are prepared to tell lies to a member of parliament. How come Shelter were not able to point the above out to me and give me support ? I have only found this through you prompting me to look at the legislation - surely someone like shelter should know this legislation back to front ? I cannot be the only person being threatened with homelessness, must be 1000's like me up and down the country.

Many Thanks I have had a good look at the Housing Act and Childrens Act myself thinking that the only way I can fight this is by becoming clued up on the legal aspects as CAB and even Shelter dont want to bother spending any time or effort to look. An interesting area that I have found is the definition of: 'Suitable Accommodation' in relation to Bed & Breakfast PDF file - Liverpool Local Authority http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Images/tcm21-74541.pdf Homelessness Code of Guidance for Local Authorities DCLG Chapter 17 SUITABILITY OF ACCOMMODATION 17.5. Housing authorities will need to consider carefully the suitability of accommodation for applicants whose household has particular medical and/or physical needs. The Secretary of State recommends that physical access to and around the home, space, bathroom and kitchen facilities, access to a garden and modifications to assist sensory loss as well as mobility need are all taken into account. These factors will be especially relevant where a member of the household is disabled. I might be able to work on this area as my daughter has specific needs that might be relevant to this section. If I can get the medical profession to put in writing their concerns then I might be able to use this as a lever against the council. 17.25. Living in B&B accommodation can be particularly detrimental to the health and development of children. Note: the above section 17.25 assumes that the child is healthy and not disabled in any way ! Thanks Dave

Well today seems to sum up everything ! Letter from housing department arrived confirming receipt of section 21 and so I rang them and spoke to a woman at 'Housing Needs' who deals with homeless applications. She confirmed that more than likely I will end up in Bed & Breakfast accomodation and that I will bear the costs of the legal action that the landlord will take out on me. I tried to put my point across that it was not appropriate to put me in such acommodation due to my daughters disability and she explained that the housing shortage in my area meant that there was little chance of any alternative. I also pointed out that I am being made homeless through no fault of my own and shouldn't have to suffer legal costs and CCJ's but met a brick wall as usual. 2 hours later I had a meeting with a woman from 'Shelter' - gave her all the relevant paperwork and even though she felt it was unfair and agreed with most of what I had to say, she was uanble to help me and was only able to advise me as to what type of accomodation e.g. Bed & Breakfast would be like and roughly how long I might be there. When I asked her if there was anyone she could put me in contact with concerning a disabled child about to become homeless she was unable to point me any direction. The only positve thing she said was that she knew of one person who took the council to court to make them pay for the costs incurred of staying after the section 21 expired. I am fast giving up hope as everywhere you go they point you in the direction of 'shelter' and like the lady from shelter said - 'We cant offer you any accomodation' - the first thing she was anxious to point out which I already knew was to stay in the property and become a 'hostile tenant' or the 'digging your heals in' building up a debt which you are liable for not the council !!!! Now my question is different - does anyone have any experience of going through the 'temporary accomodation' route being homeless ? and what sort of time scale did they have to suffer before being offered anything in the way of permanent accomodation. I am hearing that it can take 2 years max ?

Hi Thanks to everyone that have posted and offered help and advice - it is interesting to see what has happened to others in a similar situation to me. since xmas I have: Presented myself at the local council housing department where they have photocopied the S21 and covering letter which clearly asks me to vacate the property by the end of the tenancy agreement in March. The advisor I saw quoted that I would probably end up in a bed & breakfast in bristol which is 12 miles away from where I live. Also I have seen an advisor at the CAB open door as appointments are 6 weeks wait. The advisor struggled to find me any advice or a way around the problem and seemed to be less knowledgable than me on the situation although she did feel that the fact that I am a carer and my daughter is disabled should have some impact. Shelters website has a lot of information even the section below on supporting the children and not necessarily the whole family. I will be attempting to see them tomorrow afternoon on an open door situation and might learn more about my fate then. The council point you in the direction of Shelter, so do CAB. Link concerning Help from ( social Services - Homelessness with dependant children ) Shelter: Support for other groups I have dependent children Where the whole family asks social services for help, social services only have a duty towards the children and young people in the family (unless the adults have special needs).However, they should aim to help the young person remain with the family. This means that they can provide accommodation for the whole family. Whether they do this or not depends upon them balancing your needs with the demands upon them to help others. If social services decide not to help the whole family they may instead offer to help the children only by providing accommodation in a care home. If this happens, get advice immediately. I will be contacting social services who were involved with my daughter for many years whilst she lived with her mother on a child protection list due to alcohol & drugs. When my daughter came to live with me 4 years ago she came off the child protection list and has enjoyed a stable up bringing. Any support or help vanished due to her coming off this list Our old friend Lack of funding again Needless to say the mother has a nice house with a housing association! As for priority on the housing waiting list - I gave up hope of being offered anything years ago as whilst you live in rented property you can whistle all you like but you never get offered anything in the way of housing. Last time I rang them was to inform them that my daughter was disabled and whether that changed my priority and was asked whether she could climb the stairs - I said Yes - and he said well it doesn't give me any extra points so made - no difference. I will contact the Law centre this coming week and see what they say but it seems that everyone pases the buck onto shelter. Anyone else had any dealings with shelter ? what sort of help or influence do they have on the council ? because it seems that if they cant do anything no one can !

I want to leave at the end of my tenancy. Unfortunately my circumstances have changed from when I first moved into the property. If I approach another landlord it doesnt matter how good a tenant I have been - I am on benefits and as a carer I would be regarded as neglecting my daughter if I went to work. Most landlords would prefer to let a property to an AXA sunlife worker or a Council employee! no matter how much sympathy they might have for me they dont want me. What I want is somewhere to live so my daughter can continue to go to the same school as care plans are in place and she has only just started at the secondary school. Seems like a normal request to me but after reading my next post it seems like their is absolutely no support mechanism to achieve this basic request. What I dont want is a B & B for 6 months miles away from her school due to the council having a Lack of funding for their housing stock. I also dont want to have to dig my heals in to please the council and be left to pay the legal costs of such action.

I am on the council waiting list ( South Gloucestershire ) and have been for 4 years now as a single parent. Privately they have told me that whilst I am in rented property I will never be housed as I was no 70 on the list for my locality 4 years ago and am still no 70 now on the list. What really annoys me is that it is so plainly obvious that the council rules and regulations are designed so that it prevents tenants from simply not paying their rent and waiting for a section 21 to be rehoused. So people like me that pay my rent on time and have no arrears get caught up in the system. When my tenancy runs out I will present myself as having nowhere to live with a disabled child and they can do what they like with me as I am NOT going to suffer the disgrace and financial slaughtering that courts will dish out as I may not have arrears now, but will soon build up a huge debt if I stay put after the tenancy ends. The council obviously wont pay these debts but they damn well should if they cannot rehouse me as I am unable to work as I am receiving carers allowance for looking after my disabled child and they should have a duty to protect me and the child. A homeless application cannot be made until less than 28 days is left on my tenancy so at the moment they dont even want to see me.

My local MP Steve Webb is well aware of the fact that local councils do not class you as homeless until the arrival of bailiffs is imminent. I have articles in my local paper here from 2 years ago and remember that he raised the matter in parliament back then as he obviously feels it is unfair. ( I have confirmed by visiting a few councils websites in the last few days that the situation above remains ) I have a straight choice of either 1. Staying in the property and forcing the landlord to go through the courts and solicitor costs which he will undoubtedly deduct from my £500 deposit being held. I then have to hope that I am not kicked in the guts in the process either by the landlord himself by way of CCJs or ramping up the costs as he wont give two monkeys about me. Another point to raise about staying is that I will have no tenancy agreement therefore the council will not pay any housing benefit, but with the landlord ramping up the costs of unpaid rent with me staying put in his property who knows what the final total costs could build up to after 6 months of holding out simply to please the damn councils rules and regulations. 2. I move out on the date my tenancy finishes. I stick by the principle that the council are wrong to regard me as 'intentionaly making myself homeless' by moving out. From reading Shelter's website I could well be stuck with nowhere to live and the social services aparently have a duty to protect the child but not the family so there would be a real risk of losing my daughter to the care system. 3. I try to find about £3000 to move to a similar property in my area allowing my daughter to continue her education at the same school. You ask why £3000. Simple. The Agency know that I claim Housing Benefit - they also know that I have not defaulted a single payment for 10 years but they say that any prospective landlord would only take me on if he was guaranteed the rent as they normally would not accept someone on benefits. I dont blame the landlord for simply wanting his property back nor the Agency who are simply acting as middle men. I am fearful of the brick wall ( local housing office ) I now face and the stress that it will bring on me and my daughter. As I am my daughter full time carer receiving disability premiums - I have now also discovered that these benefits will be void if I am homeless. I saw my local MP about a year ago when the landlord was considering seling the property so most of the above facts are clear inm my mind - fortunately the landlord backed out of selling. The only difference from last time is that my daughter is now disabled so I am hoping that the authorities decide to think again before treating me as useless fodder that they can disregard as I am seriously considering option 2. as I dont see why I should become financially slaughtered due to the council not providing sufficient housing stock. Hopefully my local MP when I see him can exert some sort of pressure although he has already raised the unfairness of it in the house of commons so it is the legislation that needs changing hence a brick wall situation.

Assured Shorthold Tenancy Renewed every six months ( runs out March 25th 07 ) with the dreaded £30 fees which I have also paid for 10 years !

I have lived in my present property for 10 years I receive full housing benefit direct to me and then I pay the rent to an agency. The agency have told me that if I wish to rent another property on their books then I will have to pay the following: Approx 3 to 4 months rent up front - over £2000 + the rental sign on fees £200 + the increase in deposit as like I have said the rent that I now pay is below the average rent for a similar property in the same area so there would be a shortfall in the deposit. Other questions that I need answering are : If I stay in the property after the rental agreement finishes in March I will be liable for court costs when the Landlord applies to the courts to remove me. I dont like the idea of having to blacken my name and what happens if I am unable to pay court costs of many hundreds of pounds. Where do I stand if I leave the property as requested and present myself on the doorstep of my local council as homeless with a disabled child - do they really class me 'intentially making myself homeless' and leave me to rot on the streets. How can they expect me to incur court costs and abandon all duty to look after vulnerable children. Finally will they then take my daughter into care and leave me to rot which seems the more likely scenario ? Who pays for storage for my belongings if I have to go to Bed and Breakfast accomodation ? What happens to my deposit of £500 that they hold if I remain in the property after the deadline - I can see that money being totally lost. worth adding that I have paid my rent without fail for 10 years and the deposit was my money that I saved up many years ago. I am my daughters full time carer as she needs daily injections every day so living on the street wont help matters there increasing the odds of the authorities taking her into care.

Hi I am being asked to leave at the end of my tenancy next March. Landlord has given me section 21 notice to coincide with the expiry date of tenancy agreement. My situation is that I am a single parent father with a disabled child and I will become homeless in March. I have been on the housing waiting list for nearly 4 years now with no offer of any type of accomodation. I dont owe a single penny in rent and the reason for the Landlord wanting his property back is that the house is in a run down state and needs a lot of work done to bring it up to modern standards. I am greatly concerned that if I remain in the property after the tenancy has expired I will suffer CCJs and court costs of many hundred pounds to satisfy the local council's test of becoming homeless. If I leave at the end of the tenancy I will according to the council be 'intentionally making myself homeless' therefore they will then have no duty to house me in temporary accomodation. This seems very unfair to me as Why should I have to blacken my name in the courts by forcing the landlord to go to the lengths of threatening bailliff action to prove that I am homeless. What concerns me more is the effect this will have on my daughters health. So much for this Governments claims that they care about children in poverty and the rights of disabled children. Can anyone give me advice on how I can avoid court costs and CCJs coming my way and the best way to simply provide a roof over my head after the March deadline. Dave T