How does their takeover affect the Form 4? I have only just seen your reply above my update...

Hi,

Sorry for the late update - I have been so busy and only just got round to getting everything together.

Here is the response I have received from Rossendales:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43470[/ATTACH]

According to their response there is now another visit in there however they have shot themselves in the foot as it was on the 27th Feb that they spoke to my sister and I have the call recording on that day of her telling me the amount and who he was.

I think the visit on 6th was completely fabricated so that his figures started to match...

I have also submitted my form 4 complaint to his issuing court and a full Formal Complaint to the local council.

Will keep you posted

Any update on this one?Been waiting to see what the reply from Rossendales was.

Still awaiting responses from them and council. I submitted a formal complaint to council last week and copied Rossendales in. Both have emailed back to acknowledge receipt.

Just a waiting game for now before I submit my two form 4 complaints...

Haha! well technically I could as I am not a company and not governed by the DPA but think I will refrain for now! It's not that interesting, just a balding old man in a posh car walking down the path and an empty drive where apparently there is a Freelander parked (the freelander is playing 'hide and seek' in the CCTV though cos I have looked for hours and simply cannot see it but according the Bailiff it is there....)

Well the council has replied quickly with the requested details of my account followed by:

I have queried the matter of public policies in relation to Bailiffs, and I am advised by my manager that there are no public policies. However, any complaints in regard to the action of bailiffs is taken very seriously and always investigated.

 

As I explained over the telephone, your complaint must be made direct to Rossendales in the first instance. As I am now aware that you are in communication with them, the Recovery Section will not be intervening at this stage.

 

However, after giving Rossendales the opportunity to deal with your complaint should you wish to proceed with a complaint to xxxxx Council about Messrs Rossendales please put your complaint in writing.

 

Please contact me should you require further assistance/clarification.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Mrs xxxx

 

Assistant Recovery Officer

I'm still trying to work out why the Bailiff is refusing to provide his full name unless he has something to hide!?

No word from Rossendales - maybe their office staff are just as inept as their Bailiffs? I can't wait for their calculations as non add up on their paperwork.... I wonder if I send the Bailiff a gift of a calculator he may appreciate it?

Regarding the DPA I was going to wait and just stick that in at the end. From previous dealings with the ICO it probably wouldn't go anywhere other than generate a letter to Rossendales to ensure they don't do it again. It could however be useful in my Form 4 complaint and possibly in county court if it gets that far.

Elaberating on the DPA issue, before my sister returned on his 1st visit his banging on my door caused my neighbour to come outside. Now she happens to be my grandma and he proceded to tell her who he was and what he was doing here. This did 'shake' her up and she called me at work worried about it, followed a few minutes by my sister after her return and 'run in' with said Bailiff.

The main issue I would suspect is proving what he said and what breaches he made. The only firm evidence I have is the phonecall recording of my sister phoning me to tell me who had just visited and a brief overview of what he wanted.

For me, this is not so much about claiming back the £75ish in over charges its the principle that I have been in the position some years ago when I had to deal with these people and didn't have the knowledge that I do now. Plus if he had got away with it with me, how many others is he doing this to in one day? Not many people have CCTV on their house to capture the Bailiff pulling up, sitting in his car completing the false paperwork, posting it through a letterbox and then driving off. Surely if he's going to trying and extort extra money out of someone then at least invest in a calculator and get his sums correct!

Here's to waiting for their response....

well I have just fired this over to Rossendales and copied in the Council Recovery Section:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: xxxxxx Client reference xxxxxxx

 

I would like to make you aware that I am fully aware of my rights and I know the fees allowed under statute and when these fees can be applied.

 

Your bailiff Mr [edit] has made a charge for a levy fee which concerns a vehicle that is neither my property nor is it registered to me; it is the property of my sister and performing a basic DVLA check would confirm that I indeed am not the owner. Mr [edit] would also have had reasonable knowledge or in the alternate, reasonable doubt that the vehicle did not belong to me as he saw that my sister was driving the vehicle when he confronted her and discussed my private financial affairs with her on his first visit on xxxx.

 

That aside, I am most concerned that the Bailiff notes on the Notice of Distress the vehicle which would give the assumption that the vehicle is there and he has physical access to it. Unfortunately the vehicle was in xxxxx at my sister’s workplace all day and luckily I have CCTV installed on my house so please find attached screenshots from the footage showing your Bailiff coming to my door and also other angles which clearly show the driveway empty of the vehicle. I can only assume that he took note of the make, model and registration number on his first visit on xxxx.

 

I would appreciate if you could confirm that this is indeed your bailiff and is Mr [edit] who was certified in Burnley Combined Court Centre on 5th November 2012 as there is still some uncertainty to his identify as he has refused to confirm which Mr[edit] he was on the phone call earlier today which leads me to think that person attending my property may be neither.

 

I would appreciate your urgent attention to this matter as I am in the process of completing a form 4 complaint along with seeking legal advice as to whether the Bailiff and/or Rossendales and/or Chesterfield Borough Council have committed an offence under various sections but specifically Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

For your information I have also attached a scan of the document that he posted through my door on that visit.

 

Please understand that at no time have I refused to pay my Council Tax arrears. I have copied in Chesterfield Borough Council Recovery Section as your company and your bailiffs are working under their direct control and instruction.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

xxxx

It may not be correct but want to see what they say!

I had read that report last night. Was the bailiffs in that case Rossendales as well?

In regards to the levy on the car that was not there, am I looking too much into it? Surely he has committed criminal fraud as he has stated that he has levied on the vehicle however I was under the impression that they had to be able to physically touch the property they are levying on? He has done this to a) increase the charge to include the levy fee b) intimidated me into making payment in full or risk having the car seized.

I was also surprised that he blatantly refused to provide his full name when I called him so that I could check his certification. Is he allowed to do this?

Thanks Tomtubby,

I will await their response to the breakdown that I requested.

So would the levy against the car that a) does not belong to me & b) was not even anywhere near the premises be unlawful?

Tom

Thanks for the reply. I have been in touch with the Council, Rossendales and the Bailiff today - Luckily all my calls are recorded and I think they knew it.

The Bailiff wouldn't confirm anything about his visit; He couldn't remember what time and what vehicles were there. Clearly the office had briefed him not to confirm anything. All he kept saying was to deal with the office as he has passed the case back to them!

He refused to give me his full name, just [edit] - Clever as the Bailiff Register has two [edit] working for Rossendales. His office also refused to give me his name just the court and the dates it was granted which quickly identifies which one it was from that! Can they withhold their name?

What would my next step be? I have sent the email as above so should I just sit tight and wait for them to respond to that? Also in regards to the fictitious levy does that amount to criminal fraud and should I be involving the Police?

Tom

[ATTACH=CONFIG]42619[/ATTACH]

Hi,[ATTACH=CONFIG]42618[/ATTACH]

I have recently had dealings with Rossendales collecting on behalf of the local council for unpaid council tax. From the outset, I do not dispute the council tax debt.

The whole problem started last year when the Natwest banking crash caused credits to my account to be delayed and bounced the DD for my Council Tax. The payment was cancelled and completely my fault, I forgot to set it back up and/or make payment.

A Liability Order was obtained and I made a payment arrangement with the Council to pay monthly however I was unable to do the special arrangment by DD and had to call each month to pay by card - again something I forgot to do.

At the end of February I was at work and my sister called me as she had just arrived home to a man leaving our property and getting back in his car. When she approached the house he got out his car and asked her if I lived there. She confirmed I did and that I was her brother. He then proceeded to tell her that he was there to collect unpaid council tax and that I need to contact him. He even provided her with the approximate balance.

He had posted a letter through the door (a scan is attached below).

I tried to call their office that evening but the automated system stated that I need to deal with the Baliff direct.

The following day I tried to call his mobile but it rang and then went to voicemail. I tried several more times over the next couple days but each time he wouldn't answer.

I then decided to simply make the payment of the debt so used their automated payment line and paid £465.40 as I was unable to ascertain his fees as he wouldn't answer my calls and had neglected to itemise them on the 1st visit letter. Oh and they charge you 80p to pay by Debit Card!

Last night I returned home to a hand delivered letter on the floor. (a copy attached below). It's titled Notice of Distress and he has apparantly detailed a car on the inventory. (No one was in all day so he has not had access inside the house.

He has now claimed that there was £24.10 outstanding on the client debt (I paid the full amount that he specified previously)

the 1st visit fee of £24.50

2nd visit fee of £18.00

levy fee of £28.50

He puts the total at, which is hard to read because of his handwriting, £94.60 which doesn't even add up correctly!

Firstly, I am going to find out what the client debt amount is, but more importantly he has charged the levy fee and 2nd visit fee at the same time but from reading on here, he cannot do this.

More importantly the vehicle he has listed along with registration number is driven by my sister and owned by our father and best of all, when he visited the car was 30 miles away at my sisters workplace so not sure how he has levied on it when it wasn't there. He must have taken note of it on his first visit when he saw her getting out the car.

I have CCTV on my house and have found the footage of him arriving at 12:07pm and sits in his car outside my house for about 5 or 6 minutes. He then gets out and approaches the front door carrying the letter. He looks through the door before sealing the envelope and appearing to put pressure on the door to see if it would open before posting the letter. The footage also shows the driveway and roadway around the house and confirms that no vehicles are parked there.

I did last night pay the amount he has stated to prevent any action but intend to claim back any unlawful fees.

1. Did the Bailiff commit an offense by discussing my personal details with my sister?

2. On his first hand delivered letter he states the amount due and simply states 'PLUS COSTS' - Doesn't he have to list the costs for it to be valid?

3. From reading the forum, they are not allowed to charge payment fees like the Debit Card Fee, is there any case law etc on this?

4. Can they levy on a car that is not even there?

5. Can they levy on a car which they have reasonable evidence that it may not belong to the debtor?

6. Has the bailiff committed any criminal offense - Was thinking fraud?

7. How best should I proceed - I submitted this to the bailliff company last night:

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

f - copies of any correspondences.

 

I believe a levy fee has been charged on the above account as there has been no notice of seizure left at my property please provide me with a copy of the notice of seizure for each account where a levy fee has been charged

 

This is not a Subject access request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Please take notice that all and any telephone calls are recorded and may be used in any legal proceedings.

 

Yours faithfully

Hi,

Sorry to resurect an old thread. We had pretty much accepted that there was no getting out of the liability.

Up to now the claimant has called my sister to attend court for questioning. She attended and went through her income and expenditure with a clerk in December 2009. This order was served on her personally by a representative of the Claimant. (It now transpires that he was the partner to the claimant). He attempted delivery 3 times. The first no one was in, the second I answered and he would not let me have the paperwork so he called back when my sister was in.

All went quiet and then in April 2010 her bank was frozen as it appeared that the claimant had applied for a 3rd party debt order. We submitted a hardship payment order as they had frozen the whole £462 that she had in her bank. The court brought forward the hearing for the 3rd party debt order but the claimant withdrew the application and the funds were then released.

Again, nothing has been heard since and then on 26th October 2010 a Notice of Hearing of Application was received from the court. The claimants partner has made an application:

To assign 's legal fees or a portion of her legal fees because of her refusal to except service of papers and failing to attend court, and general obstructions.

He has then attached copies of the claim plus an invoice schedule from the claimant's solicitor for the sum of £3063.26. The final page is a copy of a letter from the Claimant to her solicitor asking that the fees etc are added to the defendants account however this application has not been made by the solicitor and that letter was dated in May 2010. I am presuming the solicitor has turned round and said its not possible and thats why the claimants partner has made the applications?

I thought as it was through the small claims court costs cannot be awarded (The reasonable costs incured as a result of our attempt to set-aside the judgement have already been added to the claim balance). Is he just clutching at straws? Should we just attend the hearing and let it run its course?

Tom

Bump?

Thanks for your reply, no they have only filed the claim and I have received the N1 form where I reply with admission/defence/acknowledge etc.

Tom

Hi,

I have received a claim form today for an unpaid water bill. I completely forgot about the bill and am willing to pay it, however they have claimed £145.79 + £15 court fee and then £50 solicitor's costs.

The claim has been raised by STW and there are no signs of solicitors being involved. Can they claim the £50?

Tom

Thanks, I think I had already looked at that, however the only level of detail it goes down to is days, which for us still does not resolve the issue - We have a member of staff who works 4 days, Wed & Thurs for 3 hours and Fri & Sat for 8 hours.

If they book a thurs off, then can we work out the pay as above? EG, Work out how many hours they have worked this holiday year, times by the time earnt per hour worked?

Tom

Hi,

We employ occasional workers like when other staff are sick or book holidays. We usually get the same few people in to cover and they are on our payroll system.

The problem I am trying to get straight is how do we account/pay them their holiday pay as we are not allowed to just pay them the holiday pay entitlement with their wages? Do we just work out how much they acrue for each hour they work. EG:

Full time worker: 40 hours a week * 52 = 2080 hours a year.

5.8 weeks statutory holiday: 40 * 5.8 = 232 hours a year.

232 / 2080 = 0.1115 Hours holiday earnt for every hour worked?

(0.1115 hours = 7 mins)

Could I just acrue this every month and pay them it - eg: if the work 10 hours, we would pay them for 11 hour and 10 mins?)

Tom

Thanks for all your help - The judge has adjorned the "Order to attend court for questioning" and set a date in August for the Set Aside application.

Fingers crossed!

Tom

Just an update - I have been onto the Council Estates department. They weren't keen on offering any help however after pressing them on the subject they admitted that previous tenants have had a commercial relationship.

I asked into wether we could do the same and they came round. They do however want to charge us £1250 a year for the privlidge - hefty but its not much more a month that what we are paying for two car parking passes for the public car park just up the road.

Tom

Does this read ok for N244 set aside application:

Order:

1. An order setting aside the judgement by default on the basis that the defendant has a full defence to the claim which at the time of returning the acknowlegement of service the defendant did not have the financial resources to prepare a full defence.

 

2. The adjornment of the order to attend court for questioning dated at .

Evidence to rely upon:

The defendant contests that the agreement the claimant relies upon is unenforcable as no consideration can be demonstrated to be passing from the claimant to the defendant.

 

Refering to Dunlop v Selfridge Ltd [1915] AC 847 one of the fundermental points of contract law is that a valid contract must show sufficient consideration passing between both parties. In the contract relied upon there is no consideration passing from the claimant to the defendant. On this basis the defandant views the agreement to be unenforceable. Such an agreement should have been drafted as a Deed and not a Contractual Agreement.

 

Additionally, or alternatively, the defendant was not advised to take legal advice before signing such an agreement. The claimant and their agents failed to perform basic checks on the defendant to check their suitability as a guarantor and that they had the means to perform the duty of guarantor.

Hi, it wasn't a seperate guarantee, it was a quarter page within the tenancy agreement and her signature on the final page.

We shall apply for the set aside and base our defence on the consideration point and in the alternate the negligance of the letting agent.

Tom

The order reads:

"Order to attend court for questioning

On 30 April 2009, the court

considered the application of the claimant ("the judgement creditor") which shows that: a judgement or order given on 04 March 2009 ordered the defendant ("the judgement debtor") to pay money to the judgement creditor, and that the amount now owing under the judgement or order is £4,237.69

and the court orders that

1. the judgement debotor attend at before a court officer at to provide information about the judgement debtor's means and any other information needed to enforce the enforce the judgement or order.

2. The judgement debtor at that time and place produce at court all documents in the judgement debort's control which relates to the judgement debtor's means of paying the amount due under the judgement or order and which relate to those matters mentioned in paragraph 1.

3. The judgement debtor at that time and place answer on oath, all the questions which the court asks and which the court allows the judgement creditor to ask.

4. The court where the questioning is to take place may make an order for payment of the costs of the application and of the hearing."

It then just details the debt and the cost of £45 fee for the hearing.

How should I proceed? We did return the Acknowledgement of Service but just didn't submit a defence so from reading the CPR, we can submit a application to set aside judgement which the court must do. (If we hadn't returned anything then I read it that the court decides if it can be set aside).

Tom

Thanks for your reply, but they already have judgement in default so I presume they can't dismiss the case. I believe this attendance order is so the court can provide the claimant with complete, true details of my sisters assets etc so they can then decide what enforcement action to take.

I have been revisiting the whole defence regarding consideration, which from reading more and more on it, I think is a valid defence. I am now thinking about making an application to set aside the judgement and enter a full defence.

Tom

Hi

Just an update, I went to see a solicitor who basically said there was no grounds for defence.

The claimant won judgement by default.

All was quiet until a guy knocked on the door whilst my sister was out. He said he had to speak with her urgently. I assumed it was to do with this case and although he wouldn't go into details he said that she had to attend court and if she doesn't she could be arrested for it.

I assumed he was serving a court order for her to attend court for an oral examination.

He has returned today and indeed she has been ordered to attend court in June.

How does the process work? Can we submit a N245 with income & expenditure and an offer of installments to prevent the oral examination?

Tom

Hi,

Ive just got a ticket after parking in a council car park. My ticket ran over.

The anoying thing is, the machine on that car park was faulty (a notice saying out of order stuck on with penalty ticket pouches!) I had to go to the next car park to get my 1st ticket.

Is there any grounds for appeal on the basis that the ticket machine was out of order, or can they request you visit another machine on another carpark?

Tom