I must admit that I'm always a bit of an optomist and I know that politicians are full of soundbites but I really feel that we are getting some momentum behind us now. I dont think it is a coincidence that the three organisations that have reduced their charges recently are state controlled - Halifax / BoS / RBS (or at least the state has a major stake). It will be interesting to see if Northern Rock and Lloyds follow suit with lower charges in the next few weeks. I am a little surprised that Gordon Brown doesnt appear to have realised how much of a vote winner this could be for him if the banks start dishing out large refunds. It would also be very beneficial for the economy with people either going out and spending (thereby creating jobs and boosting VAT receipts for the government) or putting the cash on deposit with the banks which helps their balance sheets. Roll on the October court date .......

That's not what's happening with Credit Charge claims where the OFT has effectively decided that a charge of £12 is reasonable (ie. they wont take action against any bank charging £12) but claims are still being taken to the court / ombudsman ?

Yes I do buy that argument but if I was in the future I'd love to see the Dallas grassy knoll or find out who was Jack the Ripper or did Michael Jackson / Elvis / Marilyn Monroe really die. Why have UFOs never been seen at any of the really monumental points in our history ?

I lived in France for a while and opened a bank account for ex pats. All the application forms were printed in both English and French and it was designated specifically as an ex pat account with its own terms and conditions. I cant see how this is really that different from the Sharia account offered in the UK ..... If there is demand for a product then someone will supply it and at the end of the day the banks concerned will no doubt still be makng a profit.

There was a pretty famous UFO case in Scotland when I was a kid - not a million miles from where Maroondevo is from. More info in the link below but in summary a forestry worker arrived home in a rough state with clothes ripped and a little delerious. He claimed that he was working in the woods and came across a UFO in a clearing but it had no visible operator only metal balls with spikes which rolled across the ground toward him and knocked him unconcious with some form of gas. This might tie in with your theory but the town where it happened is really a 1 pub / 1 shop affair and I really cant see what would interest someone from the future..... I'm open minded but if there were stories about UFOs on the grassy knoll in Dallas in 1963, or Calgary Hill in 27 AD or the Pas d'Alma in Paris in 1997 then this might carry some weight with me. But why would anyone want to visit Dechmont c.1979. Unfortunately, I'm more aligned with Bookie - I cant see us lasting long enough to invent time travel. Dechmont Woods Encounter | Mysterious Britain & Ireland

Welcome RPI I hope you find as much enjoyment from the site as I have over the last couple of years. Cheers

BF You could have a three tier system; 1. guests - no charge 2. ordinary members - no charge but limited access (i.e. no access to bear garden or templates section and no ability to send PM) 3. paying members (say £1 per month) - full access including all of the above plus a fancy title "DIAMOND ACCOUNT" This would be moving away quite dramatically from where we are now though and collecting the fees would no doubt be a nightmare (I guess you could charge a penalty fee for late payers). Just a thought .....

Once it is listed how long after that will the hearing take place - i.e if the listing appeared on Monday would it be for 1 days time, 1 weeks time or 1 months time ? Cheers

Tick .... Tock .... Have we got a date yet for the hand down of the Judgement next month ?

This site really has changed my life - without it I'd either be bankrupt or dead or both by now. I have donated in the past but not as much as i'd like and I guess the problem with me is that like a lot of people on the site I'm skint. When we win the charges appeal and all my cases which are currently stayed are paid out I will make a substantial donation. They big issue is that CAG needs to make sure that it gets a fair share of these proceeds from the people it has helped and I dont know what the answer to that is .....

I didnt realise that the ombudsman were prepared to add 8% to claims. For my bank charges claim through the ombudsman I'm simply claiming the charges back plus the interest on the charges. This could be worth quite a sum for me as the claim is for about £7k. We only need to win the appeal and I'm even more quids in ....

Wish this would happen to me. I havent heard of this happening before.

I never said that it did put them in that position. At the end of the day that is not for us to decide - the OFT will first decide as part of their review of current accounts whether the charges are fair and if they are not fair then my view is that the OFT will ask the banks to justify the levels of fees charged. I'm sure the banks will find a way to over inflate the actual costs. I completely disagree - this is a big step forward. Its not a solution but still something for us to be pleased about. They can and do charge up to £114 a day - i.e. that works out at £3,420 a month and you think a cap of £50 a month is not good news..... are you mad ?

Interesting but ..... I think the courts found that the charges arent a penalty and therefore the issue at stake is whether the OFT can rule on whether a charge is fair or not ? Lets say that the courts decide that OFT can rule but the OFT says £5 or £15 is fair ? On thi basis I dont think we'll see a full refund .....

I take a lot of comfort from this - why would they chop the charges unless they think the test case is going to go against them. I wonder how much involvement the government has had in this decision - it will be interesting to see if the other state owned banks follow suit (Northern Rock and Lloyds). Whilst the "paid" overdraft fee remains fairly high at £15 what is amazing is the monthly cap on fees - down from £114 a DAY max at the moment for bounced payments to £50 max a MONTH !!!! This must be great news. I also suspect its an indication of the way the settlement for the test case will go - ie. we wont get back all that we are claiming but only some of it because a core amount between £5 and £15 per charge will be deemed to be fair by the OFT.

My advice is to go into the whole CCA issue with your eyes open. I had two cards where the CCA couldnt be found and this is what happened; 1. RBS. Wrote to me to say that the debt had been discharged (written off), but they refused to remove default from my credit file. 2. HSBC. They admitted no CCA so I stopped paying. They eventually defaulted me and continue to set new DCAs on to me to chase for payment. There is an outside chance that they may try and take me to court for the debt although as long as I get a reasonable judge (not guaranteed) the law should be on my side. Its been a lot of hassle. I think I was very lucky with RBS and very few of the credit card companies will do that now. My advice would be to weigh up the current balance on the cards against the charges + interest on charges that you have paid (you can claim back the interest you have paid on the charges since they were aplied). You may find that the balance will be substantially wiped anyway onceyou have won a refund. Cheers

Hi Lisa In the current climate you can take some comfort that there are a lot of people in the same boat. It really is a matter of taking your time, researching the site and picking off some easy wins. If your defaulted accounts comprise largely of defaults then the start point is to reclaim the charges and as part of this process insist that any defaults are removed. You should also sign up to the following petition which asks for credit records to be retained for only 3 years not 6 years. Petition to: reduce the time Credit reference agencies hold data for to 3 years. | Number10.gov.uk Good luck.

I started a claim against Citi a long while back and it has somehow dragged to a halt and I've been too busy to chase progress. Sorry to Hijack but I'm very surprised to see that Citi offered to repay the full charges for 6 years early in the process - with me they stuck to the £12 being legit and offered a part refund only. Does anyone know if they have changed tact now - are they being more reasonable ?

V. Funny. I love Viz but hardly ever see it in the newsagents these days.

LOL. This is even more entertaining than the other Nuke Em thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/175668-how-credit-cards-bank-11.html#post2327584 Nuke Em - as you might suspect I'm with Kraken, diddydicky and PT on this one but your threads are genuinely great entertainment.

I think you'll find that between posts 102 and 152 I've demolished many of your arguments with hard facts albeit you do seem to have trouble accepting that what is said in the Times and Wikipedia is true... I also note that we are still waiting on the stagflation which you said last March would be here within 12 months (see post 117). I also hope that underdog13 didnt listen to your advice in post 74 when you told them to sell their house or fix their mortgage rate quicksmart because bank base rates were going to be 10% by end of 2009. I t take your point regarding the debt monster and how it affects people (including me in the past) but it doesnt alter the fact that people have a choice. We can live within our means and still fund some of our lifestyle by debt or we can go completely overboard and get our personal finances into a mess. I have a major problem with the greed of our banks over the last 10 years and the level of bank charges which have been applied are appalling but we need to fix the system through regulation not send ourselves back to the dark ages.

I completely agree. I've knocked enough holes in Nuke Ems arguments at the start of the thread to reach my own conclusions on all this but even if we take all the arguments at face value I just cant see why "fractional reserve banking" is such an issue. The key point is that people have a choice - if you dont trust the banking system then simply use it to move money / pay bills when you have to (ie. to avoid bartering) and convert your savings from "money" to assets (ie buy gold and keep it in your cellar/shed/under the mattress). Personally I'll keep using banks because I much prefer the lifestyle I have now (nice car, house, clothes etc) and I know that my standard of living is so much better than that of my parents basically because the economy has grown funded by "fictitious" bank debt. The header to this thread says that understanding how bank loans work will change my life - I dont think so unless by changing my life Nuke Em wants me to move 100 years backwards. As I said in one of my earlier posts, the world will ge better and we will get through this recession - its just a matter of time.

DD - Why should Nuke Em let a few truths get in the way of his arguments. I had given up on this thread but its actually good entertainment.

I work in the financial sector and can confirm that the interest rolled up does normally go through p&l. I'm not sure of how it works in your business but I guess the difference is that for a bank the interest is being "paid" because it is being rolled up into a new / bigger loan.

We need to be careful with that case - the guy concerned was basically giving out loans without getting credit approval from the bank. I think he may also have stolen some cash (under £50k) but I thought it was pretty unfair to band around the headline of a £21m fraud when in fact these were loans to businesses which may well have been repaid over time but didnt have proper credit approval. Its very different from the router accts which have been set up with the full authority of the RBS management / executive.