Thanks for the replies... But how about the revised award notice of April 2007, which shows that we only owed 1000, which was then collected from future payments? Does this no blow their idea that we owe nearly £4k out of the water, when they themselves have said that we don't? Are Advantis able to pursue a debt which, according to the HMRC (or at least one part of it), we don't owe? Gary

Hi, Sorry if I dribble on a bit here, but there is quite a bit of back story to this one. Back in late 2006 or so, we received a letter from HMRC telling us that we had been overpaid by approx £7000 in Tax Credits for the previous 2 years, and would have to pay it back. We queried this, as far as we knew we were getting what they had told us we were entitled to, and didn;t understand it. We were advised to appeal, which we did. We were subsequently told that the first year was their fault and would be written off, but the subsequent year (2005/6) was our fault, because we should have realised that they had made an error! We spent a few months sending things backward and forwards, and were eventually told that it was because we hadn't sent back the annual return. Checking our files, we had, so phoned again to query it. We were then told that we had missed one part of the form, this was done over the phone, and we were told that it was all sorted. in January 2007 we received court papers for the alleged outstanding amount of just under £4k. We submitted our defence, stating everything in great detail, and the case has remained stayed ever since, as HMRC have never responded to our defence. We did however receive a revised award notice in April 2007 for the year 2005/6, where it now stated that we were entitled to about £4200 for the year, and that we had been overpaid by approx £1000, which would be deducted from our forthcoming payments over the next year or so. just before Christmas 2013, we received a letter from Advantis demanding immediate payment of the £4k. We wrote back pointing out that we believed we did not have to pay based on the following criteria: 1: It is over 6 years since HMRC did anything, and it was out of time. 2: HMRC have confirmed to the PAC that outstanding debts from between 2003-2008 have been written off where no recovery has taken place within the previous 12 months. 3: And finally, we have a letter from HMRC from April 2007 which states that we were entitled to it, and didn't owe them anything now. They went quiet for a bit, but phoned up today (having somehow got hold of our XD number), and started giving my wife hassle, telling her that we would have to pay at least £280 per month, that we must fill out an income/outgoings questionaire, that it is now 2004/5 tax year that they are chasing, not 5/6, although the amount is still the same, that we have no right of appeal etc, etc. My wife is panicking that they will turn up out of the blue and try to gain access, or will harass her continually. My thoughts are that even if they have got the year wrong all this time, it doesn't matter as the letter we had from HMRC still states that we only owed them about £1k, and that has been paid. I also don't think they can do anything unless they can prove that we owe anything, rather than they would just like us to - although I may be wrong here? Finally, they have suggested that we pay a token £5 or so to buy a bit of time - my thought is that the minute we do this we will acknowledge a debt and will shaft ourselves - is this right? Thanks for reading Gary

Just as an update, and a quick query. We queried again with hmrc about the outstanding court case, and heard nothing back apart from a debt collection letter from Advantis. We then wrote to them, which was ignored (although got a signature for recorded delivery). We then received another letter from them chasing us. My wife phoned them up, and they couldn't find any records of us, although thru did say that if we gave them our phone number they might be able to find our record... Yeah right, are we that gullible? We then wrote again explaining that there had been a court case outstanding for nearly 7 years which hmrc hadn't bothered with, and also that hmrc had agreed with the PAC to write of debts for the years in question where nothing had been collected on the last 12 months. We then got a reply back informing us that we needed to make any payment, no matter how small, to stop the debt being automatically referred for legal action. Our thoughts are that if we make a payment, we will be acknowledging a debt, and they'll have us by the short and curlies - would this be right? Hmrc have not responded to any if our correspondence up to now - any ideas who best to turn to in the short term or what action we can take for now? Many thanks Gary

If I may jump in here - we also had a letter chasing just under £4000 from 7 years ago on Monday. The original thread is here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?66973-Tax-Credit-Overpayment/page2 I was directed to this thread, and it all sounds horribly familiar! HMRC issued court papers against us back in January 2007, we responded by saying that we would just like them to explain how they worked the figure out, and why they thought we owed the money. They didn't reply to the court, the case has been stayed since March 2007, and now we are being chased again, and threatened with private debt collection agencies. They still haven't explained why they think we owe the money, why in the year 2004/5 they think we shouldn't have received any tax credits (as this is what it amounts to financially) when all other years they have paid them without question. (Apart from 2003/4, when they also tried to claim it all back, but admitted it was their fault on appeal and wrote it off). I would also be very interested in this decision not to pursue debts from the past, as it seems this would help us enormously. I wonder also whether we have any sort of a case in the fact that the court case has never proceeded, because they haven't been able to answer our defence, and also that it was all over 6 years ago since we last heard anything? Thanks Gary (sorry for hijacking your thread)

Hi all, Sorry for bumping this thread over 6 years after starting it - but things have started off again! Basically, since we submitted our defence to the court papers back in February 2007, and have heard nothing since, apart from the court advising us that the ball was now in HMRC's court to prove that we owed the money. Today, however, we received a letter each informing us that we have an outstanding debt prior to April 2012, and must pay it immediately, or it will be passed to a private debt collection agency. We contacted the court today, to see if there had been any movement there, but were told that the case was still stayed, as HMRC have still not replied to our defence, and that they would have to apply to a judge and explain why they had done nothing for the last 6.5 years. The interesting thing is that the letter refers to the period ending 6/4/2005 (so 2004/5 tax year?), and the court papers refer to year ending 5/4/2006, although the amount is the same. We have also looked at the TC awards since this period, which state no amount owed in arrears by either side. God only knows what is happening now! Has anybody else suddenly received demands for things they thought were long dead? Gary

Hehehe! Hadn't realised that - how stupid are these people?

Hmm, just read it properly. It says that the debt has been transferred to Zenith Recovery at a reduced rate, then at the bottom of the letter says that Zenith Collections is a trading name of Debt Recovery Plus! So they've transferred the debt to themselves at a reduced rate - hope they don't lose too much money in the process!

And now we've had a letter from Zenith Collections - they're prepared to accept £80 if we settle it now. Few more weeks, and they'll be paying us! Gary

Hey - we've just had the same letter and OFT sheet! Their client is prepared to accept £120 instead, as long as we pay within 7 days. How very noble of them. As a gesture in response, I'll reduce my invoice to them for storage space in the filing cabinet to £50, as long as it's paid within the next 30 minutes. I'm going to miss this when it comes to an end. Anybody know how many more letters I'm scheduled to get? Gary

And Zenith also hide behind a PO Box in Ashton under Lying, sorry, Lyne. What on earth will these **** do if the Government ever decide to go after them? Become MPs I suppose and just carry on as before! At least if you're an MP and caught with your hand in the till, you just say sorry, blame your staff, and crack on! All good sport!

I'm loving it! I did toy with the idea of sending them an invoice for taking up space in our filing system - after all, I didn't ask them to end up there, they chose to send me letters despite the notice tucked away in the filing room which says that anybody taking up space in our filing cabinet without an official permit may be charged £60 for the privilege! After all, as the poor, confused, Tony216 says, if you do the crime, you should do the time, regardless of whether it's legal or not... Gary

I've been following this thread, and others with interest. With a partner, I run a small electrical maintenance company. One of our clients is a Housing Association in Cambridge. One of our guys was working on one of their sites a few months ago, and got a ticket for not showing a valid permit. The only thing is, all of our vans have permits for that site in their windscreens, and the only photo they supplied showed the van from the rear, neatly avoiding the screen area! After reading up on here, I've been waiting the post with interest - so far they've followed true to form - letters from UKPC, followed by letters from Debt Recovery Plus. The latest one today is the Notice of Intended Litigation, telling me how they may issue County Courty Proceedings, etc. They also say that I can view CCJ's (sic) which they have obtained at their website - http://www.debtrecoveryplus.co.uk - I had a look, and they list a few CCJs - can I look these up to see how bogus they are? I've got no intention of paying them anything at all - just wanted to see how much bull they can cobble together! Thanks Gary

I thought it had all gone away, but here we go again... Received letter from Hillesden back at the end of May last year stating that he was investigating my complaint and would reply in due course. Nothing at all until today, when I get a letter from the desk next door, calling itself Mercantile Data Bureau, and telling me that they have been instructed by Hillesden to contact me etc. Usual threatening sentences referring to doorstep specialists and so on, and please contact them on the 0844 number to conclude the matter. I keep telling them that I'm happy to pay the outstanding amount, they just can't work out what it is!

Just received the latest correspondence. IN the first (from dlc), they state that as per the original letter of 7th January 2009 'they have been assigned my account and a letter from HSBC is enclosed to confirm this' They can assure me that this was authorised by HSBC with their full knowledge and they (dlc) are fully compliant in their actions. They apologise for the wording in their letter of 18 March, in which they denied the existence of a letter from HSBC, quote: 'As originally stated we have been assigned your account and we should not have referred to HSBC as our client, this was an error' They look forward to receiving my proposals for payment within 14 days. The second letter is from Hillesden, signed pp A E Locke, confirming that the account was acquired from HSBC in January 2009, and that upon acquisition they acquired alll rights and permissions previously held by HSBC under the terms of my original agreement. To resolve my dispute they require full details of the dispute, upon receipt of this my account will be placed on hold and a full investigation made into the dispute. Wow - I still cannot get the original query resolved. The HSBC letter, which they seem to be admitting that they have written themselves, clearly states that the balance is £873.58. It also states that any payments made since 10 October 2008 will be deducted from that balance. dlc themselves confirm that they have received the £300.00, but that the balance is £773.58. I do not seem to be able to get them to realise why I'm querying the balance, or that they can't do simple maths. I'm not sure whether to send Tony all the correspondence as well, to explain my dispute, or whether to just let the OFT deal with it, as well as talking to my own solicitor. Any ideas peeps?

Just as a thought, I seem to remember reading on here that Debt Recovery Action cannot be instigated if the debt itself is under dispute - am I remembering this correctly? I have no qualms about paying what I owe on thsi one, but the problem is that dlc cannot seem to establish what they think it is that I do owe!