thanks PN... I understood that the candida is the 'flora' in the stomach ie GI tract etc... and sometimes it gets out! I'll follow up on the probiotic drinks suggestion definitely. I'm hoping I can find somewhere on the net where theres a good prognosis for this kind of thing... hoping. Thanks.

Hello, I've finally worked out what's wrong and the doctors aren't interested. What I've got, and I'm embarassed to admit this because it's a bit sad... is a candida 'overgrowth'. I don't even know what it means exactly, but the symptoms are straightforward enough. Feels like i've got a cold all the time. Muscles weak and lethargic, fatigue and so on... especially dehydration, also stinging dry eyes etc etc... minor symptoms really but would be good to get back to good health. Have to eat a lo-carb diet, and hoping that it will improve. What I said earlier in this string adds up to my immune system being a bit compromised since December 07... that's how it happened. I was living in a damp flat and eating too much sugary foods, starch in the form of rice, bread and pasta and also drinking way too much alcohol, ie taking on loads of sugar. That combined with damp conditions and lowered immune system meant a candida infection in the system. Doctors did tests and of course found nothing. I went to see GP recently who said that it's not recognised by 'evidence-based' western medicine... well I've never been one for alternative or eastern therapies, but I've definitely got something. Does anyone have any experience of dealing with this... I'm hoping that raising immune system, eating loads of protein and vitamins and cutting out sugar and carbs, and doing more exercise will help the situation, but I'm looking for any sure-fire remedies that someone might know about. Would be very grateful for any advice. Also, I've tried to get onto the consumer health forum... does anyone know where it is or what's happened to it??? I tried registering on it ages ago, after advice from someone here on CAG, but it didn't accept my registration and now I can't find the website. Does it still exist???? JulesR

This is a sheepish email, considering the amount of really kind support and sympathy I got from everyone. Basically I had a test at the end of Feb which was three months and NEG and then another one at the end of March, which was four months, also NEGATIVE. I'm very pleased about this and humbled by the whole thing... I was going through a very bad time anyway and I should have gone to my GP before and got a blood test there. Also, I went around on the web and learned a lot about HIV and the terrible problems people have either getting the right drugs ie in the third world, or in the first world, the problems of drugs which the virus is resistant to. And of course there are hundreds of inspiring stories about people with the virus leading their lives. I've learned exactly why I'm lucky not to have such a terrible disease, and I appreciate how seriously we should all take our health, particularly STDs. Remember Hep C is incurable as well, and has some serious effects. Thanks to everyone who sent encouragement, and support in a time when I felt great anxiety and isolation. That;s the good news. The not so good news is that I think I may have what's called a 'systemic infection' and I'd be very grateful for any advice anyone might have about it. Basically, I was in a very damp flat up until the end of February, and came down with bacterial infections and a kind of low level fungal infection, which caused dehydration particularly of the lips and eyes, and mouth. Fungal infections I've discovered are not that well known about. There is of course athlete's foot and the phenomenon known as 'ringworm', which is big rings of dry skin often around the groin. Originally I went to the doctor, having googled my symptoms, thinking I had something which they said was very serious. I went to the Respiratory clinic and was given the all-clear for TB and something really awful called Aspergillis. I went back to the GP, and said that I still had symptoms, mainly dehydration, but also white lines on the wrinkles on the skin on the back of my hands, palms, knuckles and heels, and soles of feet. Also I've had yellowing of the whites of the eyes, with minute red lines coming from the tear ducts, giving the impression of conjunctivitis. Ive tested NEG for HIV and Hep C, thankfully, but liver function is low. T-cell count is okay I think... all the numbers were given to the GP by the RESP clinic. The GP, who is being very helpful talked about ATH-number, but I may have misheard this. The GP said that it was possibly an 'occult' infection, and I understand this can be a fungal thing on the CSF (ie centro-spinal fluid). My general symptoms are basically lethargy and very dehydrated lips and eyes, stinging when passing water and a twinges in muscles, and muscle weakness. It's very vague, but as the doctor said, it's 'difficult to diagnose' I;m worried it's also difficult to cure or treat. The WCS is I think having to have a lumbar puncture, which could reveal the exact agent which has gone onto the system--something like that has definitely happened, I'm sure (this time... I'm very aware that you may think I'm crying wolf... the only thing I can say is that I was in a very damp flat for two and a half years, and this is the kind of thing that can happen). The problem with fungal infection is that antibiotics don't work, the magic bullet drug DONT work!! and that is worrying for anyone who has gone to the doctor with a throat or lung infection and getting doled out various strenght antibiotics to zap it. There are anti-fungal medicines which are enzymes which break down the cell wall of the fungi, and I think that must be how athlete's foot cream works. But I don't know if these work for systemic infections. I am very worried about have to go into hospital for IV steroids, which I think is a fairly serious level remedy. I'm just WORRIED, and I know it must strain people's sympathy, particularly as the symptoms don't sound very serious. The big affect happens in cold, wet weather when my breathing seems to go 'furry' and slightly damp and rasping. You would have to experience this to understand what I mean, perhaps, but it happens without fail when there is damp weather. This also happens when I drink alcohol, adding very hot, red cheeks--NOT flushing, but a kind of heat under the skin. Anyway, I am fairly miserable about all this, and of course wondering what I can possibly do about it. It is connected to what happened in December inasmuchas that whole set of events came about mainly as I was in very damp accommodation, with leaking roof, freezing cold and all the rest of it, and that really brought my morale down. When I went to the STD clinic I was in very low spirits and not surprisingly it didnt go very well. I had to wait three months for the test results, staying in the damp flat, in those three very wet winter months, and eventually the bacterial and low-level superficial fungal infection kind of when into my bones, and I've been laid low since March, very tired, a little bit broken now after the worry of the other virus test, and after effectively two months moving flat (I stayed with a friend in South London for two months whilst commuting to East London and transporting boxes and furniture over in several trips). Yes, it's true, I have not done things very cleverly--anyone in damp accommodation should MOVE OUT IMMEDIATELY and I didn't do that, stayed for two and a half years, with predictable consequences for my health and morale. The same housing co-op has given me a clean dry flat, which is helping a lot, but with this systemic thing not going away quickly, I am very very low. To those people tutting and saying they were sceptical about the HIV problem, I can only apologise if you feel I've demanded sympathy without good reason, or in some way falsely. I have also been getting counselling for the last two months. I'm now just trying to pick myself up to get back into employment. If anyone has nursing or medical knowledge, and recognises anything in the description of the condition and symptoms I've given above, and might have advice or a closer diagnosis and particularly prognosis, I would be immensely grateful. I did talk to a GP friend of mine who said that whilst western medicine recognises only one kind of candidiasis (a serious invasive fungal infection which I believe I do NOT have) she said that Eastern medicine recognises a second much less severe form of candidiasis which is ignored by WestMED. That may be a red herring, but certainly there is something fungal going through my system which has as yet not got a diagnosis. I'm due to go and see the GP in a couple of weeks to get results for tests which might confirm the reduced liver function or show that that is back to normal. For a patient to keep track of all these 'numbers' is very difficult, and any help with explaining the various indicators would be most helpful as well. As I understand it, with fungal infections (invasive) one indicator is an increase in proteins in the body. But with no training whatsoever I don't know what that means. Lastly, I am well aware that a straightforward explanation might be fatigue/physical and mental exhaustion from a nightmare six months. NO argument from me there at all, and I'm sure this is all part of 'malaise', but with infections normally they do go fairly quickly when you're in good housing conditions and eating healthily and not drinking alcohol (zero alcohol consumption for me now, temporary I hope), and all other measures of physical health look normal/good. I'm in fairly good condition generally, and wondering why these symptoms are not going. A nurse friend of mine told me that rest might be a good thing, and I'm trying that as well. Any help/advice very gratefully received as always. Many, many thanks for all CAGers help before. JulesR

Hello Gizmo111, thanks, i went to consumer health forum immediately, but I can't register... is the registration not working, do you know? JulesR

Is it just me or is the Abbey customer services line operating some kind of deliberate queueing delay so that you pay more in 0845 costs????!!! Every time I call I have to put in my sixteen digit visa number, then my birthday, but it always says there's a problem, and it takes five minutes to get thru... I think I'm turning into Victor Meldrew...

Okay, I've tried registering with the Consumer Health Forum, but the page doesn't seem to work... Thanks GlasweJen and loopinlouie. When you say 'advisors' I have not very good relations with family members and friends are scattered and inundated with career issues or families... for instance my brother said he just couldn;t be of any help at all, he's on a big deadline and has been to his own doctor about stress-related problems. I'm not sure if I have many advisors as such, and in fact I am constantly wishing I did have. I am just going to draw up a list of F&Fs because I've got to have a bit more confidence dealing with the NHS... I'm seriously fed up with it. Wondering what all the fuss is about with the NHS... I used to buy into all that Bevan/1950 'for all the people/free at the point of source' stuff, but I'm beginning to think if you are unwaged, as I am, and even when I did have a salary, it's really hard work getting the right treatment. There is part of all this which I'm not really letting on about here, for not wanting to come across as un-PC... I am quite PC, but a certain element of health practitioners are taking the P*** out of me, and I'm fed up with it... Ogawd! For instance I saw a different GP yesterday afternoon, and I'm sure he was perving. All the nightmares I've had have involved an underlying sexual harrassment. There is un-PC aspect to what I'm saying, if you read between the lines. GlaswJen, I did get fungicide, for toenail tinea, and even if it's a placebo effect (it's only strong enough for lo-level fungus) it's still reassuring. Also, I read the instructions for the antibiotics I was taking: apparently they kill off the 'flora' which tackle fungal infections. I stopped taking antibiotics and feel a bit better. Although it's started raining again... moan, moan, JulesRamone!!!!! Your advice always welcome and much appreciated.

Okay, I just called to ask about taking up their offer of 65% which has expired... And they said that applications to court for a stay to be lifted with or without a hearing are resuling in the appeal being unsuccessful... AND the solicitor I spoke to for Abbey said that they are successfully applying for costs for sending their barristers to the hearing at two hundred and fifty quid a time. That's on top of the seventyfive or forty quid to make the appeal in the first place. Perhaps all of it recoverable if the OFT finds against those pesky banks. Have I got all this right?! Let's hope the judge finds against the banks in July, or else this has been the bit of a wasta time. JulesRamone GIVE ME MY FLAMING CASH--I'm SKINT!!!

Just looked at the OFT website The Office of Fair Trading: Personal current accounts - UTCCRs investigation and test case It says the ruling is expected in July... quite late for poverty-stricken person like myself. If I appeal against the stay, would it mean I could get a result quicker than waiting for the ruling?? I NEED that cash dudes! JulesRamone

Thanks BMvs I'm biting my nails as I've been waiting for the cash for ages now, and have some bills to pay... I don't think I ever got a court date... I made the claim okay, but the OFT thing happened just as I was going to ring up and get a date. Do I need to have one already or is that irrelevant? I'm a bit concerned that having left it and not got a date for a few months (I've been moving flat for weeks since Christmas) that that might invalidate my claim--which otherwise has all Ts crossed and Is dotted. Thanks again, JulesRamone

Hello, I've got behind with this whole situation. THere's doesn't seem to be much on BAG on the famous ruling about legality of bank charges. I thought it was happening in March/April. Are we supposed to individually challenge the stay on our particular court claim or is there a collective appeal against the stay. And anyway, when is the ruling supposed to be due???? Have the banks won??? I'm skint and I'm thinking of just going for the 65% they've offered me, which is still a grand, basically. Is there any point in sticking out for the other five hundred quid (ie not admit defeat!). WHAT's going ON people?!?! Any enlightenment very welcome as always. (I may have missed a big post on the main BAG board right under my nose, maybe someone can direct me. Also I haven't seen anything recently from MoneyBox on R4 or from good ol' Martin Lewis on Jeremy Vine... actually I'll check out his website). JulesRamone

Thanks to everyone for their comments and suggestions. I had a test a week ago which was negative, but that was at 13 weeks. But it also showed a reduced White Blood Cell Count... and that is the indicator I was looking at. I told the GP what happened in the STD clinic, but they're waiting for a positive result I think. I'm certain I have the virus because there are SYMPTOMS. And in fact, this is part of the myth of HIV--the myth that you don't know if you've got it until the three month blood test which can detect the HIV antibodies. In actual fact there are classic symptoms IMMEDIATELY on infection for 2/3rds of all people infected. This takes the form of ACUTE FEVER in the first two weeks. Massive fatigue hits the victim immediately on infection and is followed by high fever, sleeplessness/exhaustion, uncharacteristic lack of energy, and, strangely, dreams/nightmares related to weakness. A persistent cold and cough might follow the initial two-week fever, but the individual's condition improves after the fever has abated (which means the body has adjusted to the presence of the virus, even though it hasn't eradicated it as happens with flu virus). I also noticed dental sensitivity to hot and cold increased and it's a well-known symptom of HIV that dental health is affected. Besides this normal spots on the face seem not to disappear so quickly and shaving rash seems to stay for longer, is slightly redder and is more sensitive than usual. All this is related to the impaired function of the immune system. HIV kills white blood cells, the police/ambulance/firefighters of the body and does nothing more than that. White blood cells defend the body from infection and also repair the body, so all physiological repairs, such as shaving rash and spots, or minor infections such as respiratory (throat) infection are not cleared up quickly in the usual healthy way. In other words the body is inundated by hundreds of minor repair jobs which its maintenance squad of White Blood Cells (T-cells) cannot handle as quickly as usual. Think what would happen if all the policemen/nurses/firemen suddenly got a cold at the same time… that’s what happens to the body with HIV. The myth of HIV is that people wander around for ages without any means of knowing if they've got it. I CANNOT BELIEVE that the minor symptoms I've just described haven't been advertised by government campaigns. People who no way have HIV could be worrying about having it after low-risk experiences without proper reason. The problem is that, apparently 1/3rd of infected people are asymptomatic (I don't believe that figure). I'm annoyed about this because ultimately the vast majority of people should be reassured by merely intelligently examining their health today. Look, I went to a private clinic to get a backup test in early December (neg of course), and the doctor I saw said: “We get dozens of people coming in during the week, and the overwhelming, VAST majority--I mean ninety nine point nine per cent -- of people who come in for tests, turn out to be negative”. It’s simply RIDICULOUS for those people to be worrying about it unless they have the symptoms I’ve described above, and if they do have those symptoms, particularly the two-week high fever immediately after the incident, then it’s quite likely they do have it.. In other words most people shouldn’t need the three month wait for the antibodies test. It's ridiculous. It’s a nice industry for private STD clinics, but a complete waste of time for the majority who fork out the £95 for the test. There must be people who don't have any symptoms immediately after infection, but frankly, I think it can't be many. Please can anyone add more informed knowledge about this? I'm puzzling over why I was labouring under the misapprehension/(misinformation?) that there are no signs of infection until the test three months later. THINK ABOUT IT: If I had known about early, pre-lab-detectable symptoms, then I wouldn't have had the test in the first place! SITUATION UPDATE... Can anyone with HIV please help me with what to do with a related condition: I'm sure I may now have an invasive fungal infection, which to those who don't know is really bad (and is very rare now unless related to HIV or other 'immuno-compromise' conditions). The SERIOUS PROBLEM with HIV is that it takes ages to diagnose, and so does invasive fungal infection****, so I'm not getting medication or treatment for either!! I got some antibiotics from the GP for a lung infection, but antibiotics have no effect on fungal infection. I’m now supposed to be getting an appointment at a hospital to get further tests… which means a lumbar puncture I’m sure (Bloody painful). As readers of this thread so far will understand, I really am quite scared of going into hospital for anything more than a scan or an X-ray… ****I am now realizing something quite big about the NHS… they simply do not recognize ‘secondary’ symptoms for a huge range of conditions. If you think about a particular condition you have and google it and do a bit of research you can easily find that minor ‘secondary’ symptoms, which are clear enough to you, but are classed as ‘non-specific’ by the GP, ie they could be related to a number of conditions or even very minor ailments, are in fact CLASSIC signs and symptoms of your particular condition. But they amount to nothing as far as the GP is concerned and they have to wait for the specialists (ie the labs and scientists) to give their opinion. This means that while a whole army of hypochondriacs clog up GPs waiting rooms, anyone arriving with a slightly unusual condition, difficult to diagnose but with CLASSIC secondary symptoms, is going to slip through the net. **** I’m honestly quite scared about going into hospital now. Problem is I don’t have friends and family who are being very supportive about the whole thing, (you might say understandable given there has been no positive diagnosis, but I disagree) and I’m not even keeping them informed about developments. Does anyone have any experience of HIV-related fungal infections. And TIPS on how to handle hospital panic or hospitalphobia, as I’ve now developed. What’s more I have a real fear now of nurses as well. Also, as if all that wasn’t enough, can anyone help with advice about LEGAL AID/Clinical Negligence. I spoke to a specialist solicitors’ firm two days ago, but they say they are selective about the cases they take on. What am I sposed to do? One suggestion was to 'complain to everyone' and this seems to me the best way forward if solicitors wont take the case. Any advice, comments, support very welcome. MANY THANKS JulesRamone

This is going to be unique I'm sure... even as I write it I can't believe how stupid I'm going to sound and how ridiculous this is going to seem. I hope someone can help with some small advice... I'm sure I just have to wait and pray. I went to the STD clinic in a North London hospital last monday. It was a routine thing, and I am absolutely sure I did not have HIV when I went to the clinic... my personal history makes it incredibly unlikely. I can't go into great detail about the circumstances here, but I'm sure that the male nurse who took the samples was messing around with me, and maybe worse. Firstly, he kept talking about the 'Aids test' and said things like 'do you want the AIDS?' Me: 'the test? not really, but I think I should have it, to make sure.' Nurse: 'okay, I'll give you the AIDS'. The thing is my general health is not good, as described in my NHS nightmare thread I try to avoid the NHS... I am tired all the time and there is a delay in my reaction time to things. I'm slow and tired basically, and what happened next, I questioned but assumed he knew what he was doing. Only afterwards did I really think it was bad. He took out a new syringe, got the swab, ie for rubbing the crook of my arm with alcohol before the needle jab, and without putting alcohol on the swab held it with his right index (pointing) finger against the needle point. He was holding the barrel of the syringe with the thumb and middle finger of his right hand, ie the same hand. Whilst holding the syringe in this way, with the needle point pressed against the dry swab, both pressing against the finger pad of his index finger, and with his left hand balancing the lower part of the syringe, he rotated the barrel with thumb and middle finger of the right hand, whilst pressing with the left (possibly puncturing the skin on his right index finger pad), he then carefully with the left hand pulled the plunger outwards a short way (possibly taking a sample from himself), noting carefully what was happening. What was I thinking? I was thinking: he must be swabbing the end of the needle... (slow thinking, tired) why is he swabbing the needle not my arm? He then proceeded to do the jab, without having swabbed my arm with alcohol first, pushed in the plunger a very short way before then extracting two samples of blood as in the normal phlebotomy procedure. Did he have AIDS? was he taking a sample from himself and infecting me? This is a complete nightmare. This HAPPENED!! I could see that he realised I was tired and perhaps an easy target--he could get away with it. I can speculate on his motives, but can't of course read the mind of someone who would actually do that. Although his motives are important to the question of whether he did it or not, the fact is he did undertake the set of actions with the syringe that I've outlined above--what does it matter why: I have to know whether it is POSSIBLE that someone COULD be infected in that way. I'm in total misery. This happened Monday 3rd December, and I get the result on 17th, but that is 99.99% likely to be negative, and it won't be of any use for telling whether I was infected by him on that day, so I have to endure six months of hell waiting, with further tests along the way, to find out whether I was actually infected by the nurse. How do I know that the nurse had the virus himself? I don't, but I think it would be the kind of job given to a nurse with HIV, as for those without it would be a risky job. What about his motives? The whole meeting did not go well really. I was very tired, and quite agitated as I'd had to wait for ages. If he did infect me, it would be truly a terrible deed, and I have to now think of practical steps in terms of what I actually do know. The conversation seemed to me okay at the time, but afterwards I realised that he was messing around there as well. On the question of whether I have a test or not he said things like: 'Do you want the AIDS?' etc. What I do know is that he used the term 'Aids' throughout, not 'HIV', and that is TOTALLY unprofessional. I have had maltreatment by senior nurses in the NHS before, in 2003, and I do feel very agitated in NHS situations, especially with senior male nurses. This might suggest I'm being paranoid. I hope so... I will certainly admit to being very anxious in circumstances where I am on my own, relying on the good practice and professionalism of a senior male nurse, and as I have described above, his actions, as I realised afterwards, suggested anything but good practice--my (anyone's) worst fear. My one hope is that he was taking the **** for his own 'amusement', and/or giving me a sharp shock about the importance of the whole matter. I'm praying that this is the case in fact. When I think about it, I just CANNOT believe anyone would deliberately infect another person in such a way. But I already know that sometimes medical professionals act in less than professional ways, and therefore I can't rule it out just because it would be a terrible act. (Unquestionably, it would be despicable for someone to cause deliberate HARM to another person to whom they have an obligation of care.) I'm distraught. I can't concentrate on anything, work, going out, anything. If anyone has any knowledge about the virus and its transmission, or anything relevant at all, I would be very grateful for any comments. Many thanks. JulesRamone

thanks once again Lula. The oft thing is very annoying. I was only a couple of weeks away from a court date... whole thing postponed.

Hello everyone, I've made a big claim for abbey and that's now all waiting for this test case to go through in march, if ive got that right. I've got a couple of other claims part-way through the process but after the LBA to both Halifax and Nationwide, Ive then left it a couple of months. Was there a deadline on how long I had to make the court claim after sending the LBA? Or is there no limit? JulesR

I'm not sure what a court bundle is... I did a QA to get the date. Before that I'd sent the charges list to the bank several times, and there was nothing to attach to the QA. Does the court bundle mean the claimants statement of charges? If there is more to do, I haven't done it. I did fill in the N1 of course, and then the QA, that's where I'm up to... Thanks for your insights again! JulesR

I'm very glad you put this. I've just put in a QA last week and waiting for a court date, and this 'test case' business is annoying. As Lula mentions they are standing by offers they've made, but that is really half the intention, as you say, hoping that people will think of the offers already made and settle for that. I had it in mind as I got an offer of 65% about three weeks ago, but really I thinking it's going to take ages now, as no-one knows how long a 'test case' will take. I understand from another thread that a county court's was going ahead with claims, not 'suspending' them, and I was puzzled until I read your post. It makes sense now: it's just another delaying/payingupless tactic. On the abbey website it says that abbey and is it six(?) other building socs are joining together for a test case. They used the word 'suspend' on the abbey website with regard to ongoing claims, which I'm hoping they can't do, as you say. Has BAG posted anything on what this test case is about? I know BAG is lobbying for a fair charges charter, but I havent seen anything about this test case. I hope we can find out if a test case does actually stall all claims until it is resolved, how long the test case will take, ie how long before we'd get our money if they lose. Also, if the bank wins the test case, will it apply to all claims or can each claimant subsequently challenge the result of the test case? JulesR

I hope you're right... I've done a QA and now waiting for a date. I've been at this since the beginning of the year, delayed by various things, and just when I'm getting to court... I spose they must be delighted to slow it down, but how if there is a moratorium, how long is it going to take for the test case to go through? months? Good luck!

Hello, Can anyone help? I'm at the court stage... Abbey look like they're threatening to reduce my overdraft. If anyone has any advice, it would be very welcome. JuleR

Abbey have put in a defence. I'm at the AQ stage and have to fill it in by the end of next week. They sent me a letter offering me 65% of the claim, which I havent responded to, and now today they sent me a letter saying: We've noticed that you're not paying the usual amount of money into your account and wondered if we can help? Call 0845###... We're happy to discuss any concerns you have or run through your options if you've had a change in circumstances. Just give us a call... If you're not able to continue your old monthly payments, we may have to reduce your overdraft. Of course, if this is necessary, we'll let you know in advance. Needless to say there has been no change in the usual amount of money going into my account. Unfortunately, my overdraft is quite big and if they reduce the overdraft if I were to win my claim that would be a sizeable chunk from the money repaid. It would be entirely unfair of them to reduce my overdraft on their reasons given, but I'm assuming I wouldnt be able to stop them. I do have another current account but it would be a hassle moving everything over. Can anyone advise on what I should do? Do I ignore it, or write to them? If I wrote to them, I don't know what I would say. Very grateful for any guidance as always. JulesR

Hello, I'm at the next stage, and will look for guidance around the site, but wondered if anyone has experience with abbey when they decide to defend. I've just received a letter offering me 65% of the amount i claimed. I assume this is just delaying tactics, and to not sign or accept the settlement and just leave it to the court date, when of course I'm hoping they won't show up and thereby default. I'm hoping they just want to put me off going the whole distance, and want me to take some money now instead of all of it later. The court adds on another fourteen days as I understand it. Will I have to show up at court even if they don't? Any thoughts very welcome. Cheers, JulesR

Hello, I'm at the next stage, and will look for guidance around the site, but wondered if anyone has experience with abbey when they decide to defend. I've just received a letter offering me 65% of the amount i claimed. I assume this is just delaying tactics, and to not sign or accept the settlement and just leave it to the court date, when of course I'm hoping they won't show up and thereby default. I'm hoping they just want to put me off going the whole distance, and want me to take some money now instead of all of it later. The court adds on another fourteen days as I understand it. Will I have to show up at court even if they don't? Any thoughts very welcome. Cheers, JulesR

This is over my head really... sorry. I think I just used a simple spreadsheet, definitely excel, which just had reasonforcharge/charge/date/dayssince/s.69accrued columns. I think you are aiming to charge them interest on the money theyve 'borrowed' from you, which i definitely didn't do. This doesn't look like the spreadsheet i used... I will have a look at this and try to work it out, but that'll take till tomorrow. Maybe someone else can help... JulesR

Hi trudd, I'm not sure if I can help entirely, but here are some thoughts... I dont think the overdraft limit matters at any stage. they have charged you for being over your overdraft limit or not having enough funds for direct debits or bounced cheques, but the reason for each charge is secondary to the fact that they took the money from you. Just put each charge in the charge column, and the date it was taken from your account. Then the two next columns have functions which should work out how many days since that date and how much s.69 interest has accrued on that particular charge. When I did the excel spreadsheet I found that it couldn't handle any kind of cutting and pasting, except in the 'unpaid cheque/unauth o/d' column on the far left. What I tried to do is cut and paste the date for instance or the charge amount to make it faster, as you would on a word document. It did the cutting and pasting BUT the functions for 'date since the offence' and 's.69 interest' then for some reason didn't work on the cutted and pasted entries i'd done. i had to redo it from scratch once... i'm not very good at excel either! Looking at your query again, im not sure if I fully understand what you mean by: 'interest on penalties matches the amount in the interest charged cell'. As far as I know there is only one interest column, the furthest right-hand one of the five. I found that if you put in the charge and the date, the days since the charge was removed from your account and the interest accrued are automatic... Anyway, as I say, Im not that good at excel. I hope this has helped a bit. JulesR

Hi tasha, you dont say where you are in the process... the best thing to do is start by reading the FAQS in the bank charges forum... and you can also find there templates of everything else you need as well. It's also a good idea to start a thread with the details of your claim in the forum for your particular bank. But here is a quick guide, stage by stage, which might help: If youre at stage one, the thing to do is get all details of your charges from the bank. You can get up to six years' worth of charges back, and of course few people keep their statements for that long but you can get them to send you the statements under the data protection act. Once you've got all the charges listed in front of you, with the dates they were TAKEN from the account, ie not the date you were notified of the charges, THEN put all the charges with dates onto the excel spreadsheet provided by vampiress at the top of this thread. You will notice FIRSTLY that when you list the charges with the dates in the right columns, there is a totaliser function at the bottom of the charges list which adds up the amount of charges in the list. SECONDLY, when you put a charge its column and then the date in the date column next to it, AUTOMATICALLY a function will give you two pieces of information in the next two columns, a) the number of days since the money was taken from your account, called 'the offence' b) the amount of s.69 INTEREST that you are due from them given the amount of the charge and the number of days. THIRDLY there are two more totalisers at the bottom of the s.69 list, one which is the total of the bits of interest you are claiming for each charge, ie adding up all the items in the s.69 list above, and the second totaliser adds the TOTAL OF CHARGES to the TOTAL OF INTEREST, and gives you the grand total in a box on the right hand side of the page under the s.69 total. When you've filled in that, what you do is make two copies to your own PC or mac, one which has just the charges on it, and the second which has the interest on it, with the two further totals. Keep the second one for later, because you are only going to need the first one for the moment. There are two more stages before you make a formal claim which will include the interest you want back. For the moment, once you've filled in the spreadsheet, write to the bank telling them you want £x amount of money back which is the total amount of charges ONLY that you've got on your first spreadsheet, ie the one saved without the interest on it. When you send them this first letter with the charges list, it's called a PRELIMINARY REQUEST and there is a template on this site, in the Bank templates thread. Follow the instructions regarding this PRELIM letter, it says in the letter how much time you give them to reply. The bank may reply, they may not, for, unless they give your money back straight away, you then send the next letter which is called the LETTER BEFORE ACTION. With this letter, again you send the same spreadsheet which has ONLY the charges on it, and not the s.69 interest. Again, they have fourteen days to reply. The point of that letter is to tell them you are about to make a claim through the small claims system if they dont hand over the money. And that's the next step, after their two weeks reply period is up. You NOW take the spreadsheet on which you have saved the interest column with the two extra totals (the one adding the interest items up, and the second adding the interest total to the charges total to give the grand total). You go to the N1 claim form, fill it in exactly as the guide notes on this site explain, and print out the spreadsheet with interest and either take them or send them to your local county court. At every stage you have to send the letters by recorded delivery as proof of postage. The idea is that when you make a small claim the bank might DEFEND, ie say that they dont owe you the money. The whole thing might end up in court, at which point you have to have proof of all the letters youve sent. That's pretty much it--the whole thing. The first step is definitely to find out how much charges theyve taken from you over the last six years (do it with every account you have) then fill in the spreadsheet and make the two copies. After that you just follow all the letter templates provided in the bank letter templates thread. Good luck. It's easier than it appears, and it will take several weeks, probably a couple of months. Cheers, JulesR

Thanks Fred, I'm beginning to understand now. I think I now understand that the s.69 interest has two parts, firstly the spreadsheet calculation, ie each 'offence/breach' the date, the days since the charge was taken and the accumulated interest at 8% all added together. The spreadsheet does that very easily, no problem. The second part I also NOW understand, which is the s.69 still accruing AFTER the N1 claim has been made, and this s.69 acts not on each 'offence' but on the entire lump sum claimed on the day the N1 was submitted, and accruing each day AFTER the N1 and up UNTIL the day the judgement is made. All this s.69 is money THEY have taken from the CLAIMANT in interest on top of levying the charge itself. The other kind, the second kind of interest, is basically the amount the CLAIMANT charges the BANK for borrowing the CLAIMANT's money... and that's where it gets a bit too complicated for me. I read one thread here where the claimant was considering charging this overdraft interest at the bank's own 'unauthorised overdraft interest rate', which could be as much as 29%. The confusion for me is that this is more difficult to work out, and it seems the interest rate is particular to each case and each bank. I can see how it is difficult to give guidance on this area. I hope I've understood the basics. Very many thanks for getting back. I'm submitting the N1 this morning. JulesR