Verbally - but it's going in writing. I actually hadn't thought of this point. I'll let my new bank know!

They have been told but they have never commented on it.

I'd go with that.

So if as you say the banks are expected to pay a guarenteed cheque - is it correct that they dont and send it back for re-submission and charge you, of course?

I have to agree with the interpretation issue. My experience today left me playing the broken record saying they are in breach of the Banking Code they subscribe to, yet they tried to use every trick in the book to squirm out - it all came down to how someone interpreted it! I was even told I was in breach of contract. I really do find that insulting when all I have done is merrily get on with my banking and by using a cheque book to keep a tab on things and weekly mini statements, find I'm getting ripped off. I digress. But implied contractual obligations, personal interpretations and the like are so subjective, you have to ask yourself if they can swing it in law when they need surely it's more empowering for the consumer to use the say tactics when they take action? Surely it is reasonable to believe that if the banks voluntarily sign up to a banking code - an ethical code set to protect both bank and consumer, that the ethics of that code have been incorperated into a banks contract with every customer, else there would be no reason for the code to exist? Which it must do if people are getting their money back - even with a fight!

Thank you very much. I will follow this and see how it goes. I will not just take your advice and run, I hope that I can help other thorough my experiences with this bank.

If a bank is continuing to let charges spiral out of control and refuse to address the matter in a "sympathetic & positive way"; surely the bank can be accused of negligence by knowingly breaching the Banking Code and making someone go further into debt after that customer has tried to discuss and resolve the matter with the bank? Negligence is a very strong point and most organisations don't like to hear about it.

Just phoned the ombudsman. The girl was pretty blase and just took my details and ended the conversation with the standard thing about 8 weeks after the complaint has been made send the forms off and even when I said they were contravening section 5.5 she wasn't interested in talking. Still I have the forms coming which is a step forward. Sometimes if you have a basic account and you use it wisely they can upgrade your account after a period of time can't they? I feel empowered today - I was not scared of pulling my income away from my bank.

Luckily I did - I was a broken record. It's nice to hear I am being treated badly because you do get thoughts as to maybe you missed something along the way. I can't open another current account as far as I'm aware because I have students debts outstanding and no doubt when the banks check the account you already have, they shy away. I don't want to have to lose my cheque book and debit card but looks like the basic bank account is the way to go. I'll try ringing the ombudsman - thanx

OK I have informed the bank I have cancelled ALL benefit payments into the account until they refund ALL the excessive charges from 24th Jan 06 til whenever they sort it out in the next 2 weeks. I told them this money is not for the banks to chew up in charges but for a disabled person and her carer to live on. The Head Office complaints department verbally agreed that it was a sensible thing to do. We cant live on nothing - but we cant pay our bills either! All bills are on DD

Today in my dealings with NatWest, I was told that if you pay cash in on a Monday at midday, and cheques are drawn that morning, they wil charge you because you have signed a contract stating that you understand cash paid in on one day is not available for use as funds til the next day. Thus I would have had to pay it in on the Friday to stop the charges. And when you state 5.5 of the banking code about giving 14 days notice of all charges on an account, they say that is not right they have apparently superceeded the Banking Code by printing leaflets stating their charges and that they will charge on the same day. Also, I was told sometimes they will "allow" a customer the right of going over their limit and not charging them if there is not the cleared funds at that moment because they are aware that money will be paid in. It is discretionary and they also can decide to charge you if they wish. This again can't be right can it? I pointed out on my account that they had not charged me earlier in the month when this occured, why now. The answer was because they chose to. So they have made a choice to increase and snowball my charges, even though they have the discretion and Banking Code 14.1 to waive these when they know it will cause hardship and when they know money is regularly going in.

No-one answered. Started a complaint at Head Office. Through to lending and they have me on hold again. They say my £100 paid in on 24th Jan which would have negated a £70 charge should have been paid in a day earlier as it hadn't cleared. Cash clears immediately doesnt it? Yes it does! Charges have also gone up again - by close of business today it will stand at £343 of charges in around 8-9 days. My balance will be nearly -£900. Even when you state these areas of the banking code at them they swear they are doing it correctly. Just had a supervisor on the line and he told me it's my fault and would refund £35 as a gesture of goodwill and realised the charges are snowballing but it's my fault and they don't accept the banking code because they publish their charges and even when I said they were breaking the law they said they weren't - blah, blah you've heard it all before no doubt. I was sitting on hold for 30 minutes too. Made 5 phone calls today. They say the £35 refund is because of section 14.1 and their literature superceeds the banking code. I have no money all our benefits are being taken by the bank and I don't know what to do. Any action taken will take long enough that the bank will get into an even worse state than it is now. Help please. Sorry the bloke also said he would not put this is writing to me.

On phone to bank now - current snowballed fees are up to £247 they bounded my BT bill and I have £118 in benefits due to go in by the end of the week. All last payments chewed up in fees and current balance -£707 and counting!!!! I have asked for a supervisor I have been on hold for 10 minutes as we speak. I was told this is all correct and a supervisor was busy can they phone you back I said no, they resisted, I stated 5.5 of the banking code and he shuffled off very quickly. I suspect I'm waiting on an empty line and no-one will return.

Gotcha! I also think 14.1 is quite a serious breach in my case - well probably others too - but as they have been aware for some tim,e I am a carer and they don't deal with anything sympathetically. Will let you know what happens later. Thanks for your help.

Can I just ask please; so what is written here is wrong? http://www.natwest.com/personal02.asp?id=PERSONAL/DAY_TO_DAY/CURRENT_ACCOUNTS/RATES_CHARGES#unarranged Are they not allowed to charge like this? Sorry cutting my nose off here

Oh thank you for that info. I feel vindicated now I know they can't do this. If that first £70 hadn't occured then I wouldn't even be over my limit. I am very glad I found this site and I hope I can learn more about banking and help you all in your campaign.

Sorry to make that clear, they are applying the charges and removing the money from my account all on the same day as I tip over my limit - as I say even when by close of business I have brought the account into order - thus because they have already applied the charges the account becomes and remains over my limit. What makes me more angry is they know damn well the two days per week money is going into the account via BACS payments and this last two weeks I suspect - as I have yet to have a monthly statement, that I have lost nearly £250. I consider it robbery from a disabled person and carer.

They are charging me the day I'm over my limit even if I pay in funds that day to bring me back within my limit. Yep I know they are screwing me. But as I don't work I cant get another current account which I need. Been reading round the forum though and gonna try the asking for a supervisor and NOT letting them pretend they'll ring me back. Had that happen too many times. I dread to think how many more charges have been added in the last 24hrs.

In Whisperwolf's defence here, I too have had a similar problem, except mine has been in the past and this week, waiting til I am over my limit due to an incorrect charge, then slamming me with a £38 charge for a £3.86 Paypal direct debit. The dates paypal pulls and the banks honour the payments are never quite the same each month. But having read this post, I realise I'm not the only one they play about with paypal payments with - oh and it's NatWest again!!!!!

This is disgraceful. If we, the customer started "charging" banks, et al for various little things, we'd be up in court for a form of fraud. Wish I didn't have to have a bank account, or a phone account or anything else where people can "pilfer" money from me.

That site doesn't seem to be there anymore

Hi I'm new to the forum and just to explain, I am a full time carer for my mum who have had a stroke, has dementia and cannot run her own finances. I personally have a number of debts incurred when I was a student which, due to my caring responsibilities, have been unable to sort out. I have banked with NatWest since 2001. I worked for 6months after graduation in 2001 before becoming a full time carer. For those who are unaware, benefit claiments now have to have their benefit paid directly into a bank account. Both my carers allowence and my mothers benefits due to her condition are paid in there. A year and a half a go, I had a £600 overdraft from when I was working, on my account. Suddenly, apparently after new software was installed, the bank computer kept "losing" my overdraft facility every 3 weeks. Hence suddenly I was getting the excessive charges mentioned by others on this forum. After 6 months of battling they increased my overdraft to £700 and the total refunded charges came to over £1400. I was intending to take them to the Ombudsman, but unfortunately as I was getting my statements together, my mother had another and more serious stroke. I did have a letter from the Customer Lending Centre about a year ago stating due to "goodwill" they would offer me £100, which I was advised by the Ombudsman to decline. Anyhow, this past year was taken up with my mother and getting her out of hospital and home again. At Christmas, I had several bills due to come out directly after the holiday period which clashed with dates for payments in to my account from the benefits agency. Anyhow, it transpires I have a £60 charge first week of January, which has snowballed to being £143 of charges this last week. One charge of £38 was for a DD of £3.86p - I cannot see how this can be legal. I had also asked them at Christmas if I could have a temporary lift in the overdraft of £50 or £100 which would have stopped the initial £60 charge being incurred. Because I don't work, "computer said no!" - literally! Even though my account was in good order at the time of the application the computer turned me down to the utter surprise of the girl doing it - she couldn't understand why and put it down to my not working. So, this last week chronology of activity on my account. 24th Jan 06 payment in of £100 - balance = -£560 " " " cheque out £10.00 " " " cheque out £34.38 " " " cheque out £16.21 " " " cheque out £20.70 " " " cheque out £38.75 The total of these cheques is: £120.04 Total funds is -£520 + £120.04 = -£640 well within my limit of -£700 overdraft. HOWEVER, at the beginning of the day they charged me £70.00 for the cheques of £38.75 and £34.38 because I didn't get to the bank until later that day with the £100. Even though the £100 deposit is an earlier entry on the statement than the cheques leaving the account. This left my balance at -£750.46 at close of day. 25th Jan 06 The next day £3.86 came out as a DD and because of their £70 charge they then charge me a further £38.00 for being over my limit at the start of that day. Bearing in mind if the £70 had not been applied I would not have been over my limit! Close of day balance without £70 charge = -£644.32 With £70 charge = -£788.46 26th Jan 06 Payment in of Income Support, (hey I'm not proud), £54.96 Closing balance without £70 = -£589.36 Closing balance with £70 = -£733.50 27th Jan 06 Cheque for £29.13 comes out plus a charge of £35.00 Closing balance without £70 = -£618.49 which would be within limit and not require the £35 charge. Closing balance with £70 = -£797.63 Thus far I incurred an incorrect £70 charge and two further charges totalling £143 30th January 06 Payment in of £52.29, £45.70 and £110 all benefit direct payments. Payments out of: cheque £5.00 cheque £17.96 2 x DD £3. 46 each Total in: £207.99 Total out: £29.88 Balance at start of day = -£797.63 Balance at end of day = -£619.52 Balance if original £70 and subsequent incorrect charges were not applied = -£439.89 giving £260 in my account to cover cheques totalling £210. no of items to be charged on that day = 3 Suspected charge = £105 This just gets worse as you can see a total snowball which I can't get out of. Sorry it's long but I need to explain. I will phone them tomorrow - as we have carers here it can be difficult phoning immediately a problem occurs - saying that I only realised what had gone wrong yesterday.