Hi ammani Okay, so we are all looking at the same picture, is this correct; 1) You had 3 separate accounts but we can disregard the business account as not part of this dispute; 2) You already had an existing Current Account when you subsequently acquired a (joint) Loan Account - they were opened at different times, had different Acc Numbers and the Loan Acc had a separate CCA which you both signed; 3) You couldn't keep up the repayments on Loan Account and intended to utilise their 'repayment holiday' which allowed for 3 months hold on payments however when you applied, Barclays advised that it was not available and that you needed to close down the existing Loan Account; 4) Upon doing this, the outstanding amount of the Loan was transferred to your Current Account and the T&C for repayment of the amount changed to allow lower monthly repayments; 5) Furthermore between the timing of closing the Loan Acc and the Loan appearing on your Current Acc (Dec 2001), £1,500 had been added to the outstanding amount but you did not sign anything and do not therefore know what this additional amount represents; 6) Meanwhile, you are working with CCCS to arrange a payment plan regards you personal creditors; 7) The CCJ was made against your Current Account (at that point with Loan facility) for failing to make agreed payments despite you're having entered into a Debt Management Plan via CCCS through which Barclays as a creditor were being paid. Hopefully that's all correct. You are awaiting/need to request :- a) Information retained against the original Loan Account (before it merged with your Current Acc); b) a true (showing signatures) copy of the original Loan Agreement. Do you not have the copy Barclays sent you as part of your divorce papers?; c) a true copy of the 2nd Loan (the one where you agreed to a new Loan to be added to your Current Account). Barclays are obliged to send you a copy of this as it has been active within the last 6 yrs; d) A SAR from CCCS; e) Copy of the Court Judgement. If you entered into a replayment plan with Barclays (as a Creditor) via CCCS and Barclays agreed to it AND you kept up the agreed monthly payments, then the bank wrongly filed for default and the court likely was not provided with the full picture (ie probably told you weren't making payments, nothing about CCCS etc). This being the case, you can apply to have the Default removed as part of your claim. I presume that you had penalty charges against your Current Account before Barclays further burdened it by sticking on the Loan (plus £1.5k unknown charge). Hopefully once you have copies of the two loan agreements, you can identify the £1.5k. Write a letter to Barclays ensuring they know they only have xx days to furnish you with the information. Let them know you will take them to court if they fail to do this.

Hi Nicky Everyone should now be using the new POC from now on. It is a lot longer and if you have downloaded the .pdf N1, you can increase the length of the N1 by adding pages - I added two more to the body to accommodate the new Particulars version.

Hi Dave I presume this is just a Directions on the 22nd? (10 mins hearing possibly lumped in with other bank charge claimants). Since the clerk advised that 'blanket' Stays are not currently being issued by your court, I would take along the following: a) COpy of your POCs b) An up to date SOC c) A prepared Application for Judgement by Default These I suggest taking just incase Barclays don't bother turning up or sending in wirtten representation. If they do neither, technically you can ask for the Defence to be Struck Out (and hand over your Application). Of course, they may turn up so I would additionally take d) An Objection to Stay (as this is what they're certain to request) The link for this and the supporting documents can be found on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay-updated.html e) A Draft Directions just incase the judge is willing to proceed the case, the link for which is http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html Post #1 Under "Prelim/Directions hearing" Section. Which court is it Dave?

Hi Princess It won't affect any other cases you have for separate accounts. The important bit is that you make sure you cross out any confidentiality bit and that the wording is ...settlement of this claim. Well done

Smutley Definitely take the opportunity to get some column space. Stupidly, the court did vacate all cases (even ones like mine which are not even to do with bank charges) - frankly I find it misappropriate use of powers and I am making a complaint "further up the line" against the judge's Order to vacate on the basis of a Stay which has nothing to do with cases such as mine. I'm not at all concerned about it affecting mine as B's recently settled it anyway however the court Stayed it before I sent a Notice of Discontinuance so as far as I'm concerned, the judge scr*wed up and evidently did not examine the cases for which he ordered a blanket Stay. I will be using my complaint as leverage to halt any further blanket Staying by Cardiff Court. I suspect the response will be made up of a one line insincere apology blaming it on a 'clerical error' however I will not accept this as the judge put his name to it so I hold him personally responsible for a serious breach of his powers.

Hi ammani Your opening posts states you've already filed a claim for the charges imposed on the Loan Account (of which Barclays are suggesting they have no knowledge). Exactly what did you base your charge calculations on - do you have statements or some other original paperwork? "they have sent me documents for my current account, and not the loan account" How long ago did the Loan Account permanently close and are you sure it was a separate account and not just your current account converted into a loan account ie one and the same just type altered by agreement? "they have no record of the loan account as 6 years have passed" How long ago did the loan account close ( I presume this will be the same date as "i have a letter confirming settlement of the loan" - if this occured less than 6 years ago, they are legally obliged to retain record of it and if they have not (or more likely they are fobbing you off) then you have a case for DPA breach. "They are getting their specialist team to look into it" Not to burst any bubbles, but I would send a follow up letter recounting everything that was said in any phone calls - Barclays are infamous for not following up and/or denying the content of calls. "reopened it again, and put on 1500 finance charges!!" What do you mean they "closed the initial loan" - they obviously didn't just wipe it off so did they agree some sort of "payment holiday" ie temporary suspension? All this paperwork, signed agreements, negotiations, alterations etc makes up part of your SAR. Have you got payment records regarding the CCCS? "i never ever recieved copies of the loan agreement, which they say i would have been sent, at the time." As long as the payments via CCCS or CCJ occured within the last 6 years, they are obliged in law to retain the original Agreement. If the bank cannot produce a 'true' copy of the executed agreement ( ie the agreement you would have originally signed when taking out a loan, card etc ) then under recently amended Consumer Credit Act rules, the debt is unenforceable. Whilst the loan wouldn't have been written off , the bank would have had to produce the Agreement in able to have the debt enforced through a CCJ. Did you attend the court wherein the judgement was granted?

Hi bigal Chin up, you have a Win and now you have the chance to send it the baliffs! You won't be the first who has had to get the knuckle brigade involved and as you probably know, the fees for arranging court BLs is added to the debt being chased.

Hi Dylon Unless you are required to submit your bundle by a certain date, I wonder if it mat be best to hang fire on preparing it. There is some time before the TC conclusion and you are already 'in the system' so won't lose any ground now. I think (and it's only my opinion) it's likely that through the course of the TC, the bundle will be enhanced by the addition of even more evidential documentation in which case, you would have to reprint at a later stage.

Hi ammani Well their Defence reads pretty standard. I see they have included a piece about pre-6 yr barr in regard of Limitations Act and as feedback on the success of claims was limited prior to the OFT TC bringing on massive Stays around the UK, it's difficult to assess the strength of case for claiming more than 6 yrs worth of charges. Many of us are still proceedin with it anyway as we don't belief the Act is an adequate defence in the matter of bank charges. If you sent the SAR from here asking for the entire banking history (and not just 6yrs worth and/or statements), then Barclays have failed to comply with your request and will continue to be so until they supply not only a true copy of the original Agreement (ie the one with signatures) but also manual intervention documents such as the CCCS paperwork. I would send them a version of Temlate Letter #2 from http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html itemising the documentation areas still outstanding. If they don't send, take them to court for Breach of DPA (it does work and you do get not only your court fees back but also calculated costs for your expense and time; Barclays normally jump through hoops to settle rather than even risk a Directions hearing). The link for filing is http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6971-data-protection-act-non.html. The fact that it was a joint loan account with your ex doesn't matter. Not having sight of your T&Cs etc, I can't say with certainty, but I suspect that you have good cause to have the Defence struck out on the grounds of abuse in that it appears standardised in nature and is not relevant to the dispute, that specifically being a Loan account that was not subject to the T&Cs of a current account for which this Defence has evidently been prepared. Though their partial response and lacklustre Defence may seem frustrating, you may well find that it is very beneficial to you getting this sorted quickly (in your favour) as they don't appear to have read you POC properly and have responded with an automated, inappropriate Defence. The bank's lack of effort is likely part due to their assumption that every claim they now come across will get Stayed - this attitude is good news for claims such as yours as they leave you in a position to get Defences Struck Out and a Judgement by Default in your favour.

Hi slipshot Regards your indecision about whether you should now take the offer which has now been reactivated by Barclays, I always say bear in mind : 1) How much you need the money now -v- waiting some time and getting all your money back; 2) Take into account that option b) includes an accruing 8% and all your court fees back. The 60% is in reality far less if you take into account the fact that a) youe fees and b) 8% Statutory Interest. Of course, depending on personal circumstances, it makes sense for many people to cut and run with the existing offer, especially if things are financially a bit tight or you have family responsibilities. Only you can decide which option to take. I recommend you download one of the following Schedule of Charges spreadsheets, pop your figures in and see the true cost of what you are entitled to: Excel Works OpenOffice

Hi metalmutt Firstly, a warm welcome to CAG! You are at a point in your claim where you really need not only to know the terminology but what all these things are - I urge you to read up on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html and http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/24031-frequently-asked-questions.html. You should be getting a copy of Barclay's Defence sent through by Warwick court next (unless this has already been provided). If/when you get the Defence, post the first 3 points of it on here. Since you filed with MCOL, it is likely Barclays will contend that you have failed to supply a breakdown schedule and that your Particulars are summary in nature. Both of these points are easily remedied. You may also receive Barclays glossy leaflet advising that they are applying to have your claim Stayed until the OFT Test Case has run it's course. Whatever you receive next, post it on here so we can advice you along the way. Reading the links above should be supplemented by reading threads on the forum as you will glean a huge amount of information simply by following other people's progess

Hi Joel Whatever automated letters/leaflets you receive back from Barclays over the next month+, unless they comply by actually sending you the information you have requested in your SAR (and by that I mean in it's entirety and not just a few years or sleective data), you will need to send Template Letter #2 from http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

Hi Kiff Did you receive a court notice (directions) actually stating that the Defendant had to file and serve an AQ?

Hi Supertrouper Have you looked at ICY's recent list thread? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/109936-find-out-here-if.html

Hi splatrowe and welcome to the B's forum (rather appropriate abbrev.) You seem to have received B's latest automated response to current LBAs they receive so I wouldn't worry to much about the intimation they give, they ideally want potential claimants to think the case is hopeless and go away. Absolutely agree that you should take it to court, the alternative is that you lose by not even trying to attain your rights to fairness ie give up. Worst case scenario is you have to wait til OFT TC completed but you will be earning 8% Statutory Interest as soon as you lodge it as a claim. The majority of county courts are either self imposing a Stay or backing the bank's application for one. Whether this will happen to you depends on the court and more importantly the judge as imposition of a Stay is not mandatory and remains up to the discretion of the individual judge.

Hi ammani You seem to have everything well under control and have done all necessary to this point. If you post the first three points of their Defence on here, we can see if there's anything that needs your attention. If you have it scanned onto your C Drive, it will be an image, not a text document which is why you can't copy and paste. If it's easier, just long hand type out 1st 3 points Well done for having it all in order so far

Hi Dave If this is a trial hearing, then you need to print off 3 copies of your court bundle and make sure they are received by 1) Barclays and 2) the court with at least, I would recommend, 10 days before hearing date. For a list of everything you need, follow the link http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/33060-basic-court-bundle.html

I'll keep an eye out for the virtual postcard! Enjoy

Hi ChilliP Welcome to CAG and thankl you, very decent of you and yes, CAG is proving to be a hugely important stage for UK Consumer justice. Whilst a massive motivation is obviously seeking resolution of the bank charges dispute, CAG deals with all aspects of consumer grievance and it's always recommended that new users have a good look around as one never knows what may come to light on something that you thought was a lost cause years ago!

As my OH loves to say whenever things get tough: "We don't have problems, only solutions"

Hi lee I am sure you are right that there are sadly many judges who welcome the 'get out' clause of the Stay guidelines they have been offered. There can be no denying that the county courts have been severely overloaded as a result of the bank charge culture and I can appreciate how detrimental this has been regards arduous workloads for the county court staff. HOWEVER, my belief is that justice is for all and the county courts Small Claims route is there as a Servant of the people; it is supposed to ensure that in the UK, an individual with no great legal knowledge but who presents a reasonable case of dispute, has access to speedy resolution via the judicial system. I find this off loading of cases under the intolerably long Stay (in fact one with no time frame) is fundamentally wrong and severely destroys not only the objective of a Small Claims court, but the faith of the citizen.

Hi J&W "It is not Barclays deciding that the Courts will issue a stay, pending the outcome of the test case, surely this must be the decision of each individual County Court judge." This is correct and whilst recommendations and guidelines have been distributed to the cc judges, they still have command of any discretion they wish to exercise in whether or not to self impose/accept a Defendant Stay. Posts are popping up every so often on the forums confirming that cc judges are electing to proceed small claims cases even in instances where banks have requested a Stay (and this has recently happened with a Barclays case).

Hi Matty Court Orders are required to give at least 7 days notice for papers to be submitted so unless you're going for longer, you'll be okay. Hopefully, you will have the next court advisement arrive before your hols even if it's just that the county court judge requires an AQ submitted (in which case, it will be enclosed). If you get a Notice of hearing date, you may also have Directions to file and serve certain documents by xx date. Again this will give more than 7 days (normally 2 weeks plus) for you to submit.

Hi Penfold I'm afraid it's entirely up to the judge whether or not to allow a late Defence, some do, some don't. The best scenario will be that your application for Judgement by Default gets put in front of judge and granted before BLT get their bums into gear and submit any paperwork. I would ring the court and find out when your Default is going to be heard. Don't mention anything about Barclay's intention to Defend!

Hi Druids An example of a Stay being refused by the judge can be found on one of vbmenu_register("postmenu_1067619", true); skintcumbrian's threads: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/109797-urgent-help-now-pls-2.html?highlight=hardship+Stay The FSA and the Ombudsman have agreed a clause which is hardship under the banking code. If you can prove financial hardship the bank MUST progress the complaint. Trying to locate the Clause now, unless someone hopefully has it to hand and can post immediately